Next TV deal discussion 2028 -

[Wb1234]

Not sure you can call the Stan offering only for tv. Given it was a Fairfax bid, it's not a stretch to say it included digital media and sponsorship.

News ltd wrote a story the deal was 3.5 billion over 7 years paid by fox and seven

so the figure I use is 500 million pa excluding Telstra as the real tv figure

which is up from the approx 430 million they currently get

 

[Chief_Chujo]

News ltd wrote a story the deal was 3.5 billion over 7 years paid by fox and seven

so the figure I use is 500 million pa excluding Telstra as the real tv figure

which is up from the approx 430 million they currently get

Yea I wouldn't hang my hat on that. AFL financial reports have generally lined up with their announcements. I'm more interested in the breakdown and why we aren't getting the same. Like the Telstra part is just confusing to me. There should be an obvious profit line for their investment.

 

[Iamback]

Yea I wouldn't hang my hat on that. AFL financial reports have generally lined up with their announcements. I'm more interested in the breakdown and why we aren't getting the same. Like the Telstra part is just confusing to me. There should be an obvious profit line for their investment.

The reporting never lines up to allow comparison, The ad revenue is there somewhere just listed differently

 

[Iamback]

Yea I wouldn't hang my hat on that. AFL financial reports have generally lined up with their announcements. I'm more interested in the breakdown and why we aren't getting the same. Like the Telstra part is just confusing to me. There should be an obvious profit line for their investment.

Ch7 reported the new deal was a 20% increase, The whole thing is a 1/3rd higher. So there is a difference somewhere along the lines

 

[The_Wookie]

Yea I wouldn't hang my hat on that. AFL financial reports have generally lined up with their announcements.

AFL Broadcast and Media Income

Year	Broadcast	Contra	Total	Rights Income	Announced Value
2012	$225,577,000	$27,000,000	$252,577,000
2013	$240,674,000	$27,000,000	$267,674,000
2014	$248,396,000	$27,000,000	$275,396,000	$1,370,403,000​	$ 1,253,000,000
2015	$256,602,000	$27,000,000	$283,602,000		over by 117m
2016	$264,154,000	$27,000,000	$291,154,000
2017	$381,028,000	$16,000,000	$397,028,000	Rights Income	Announced Value
2018	$391,504,000	$16,000,000	$407,504,000
2019	$397,439,000	$16,000,000	$413,439,000	$2,381,831,000​	$ 2,508,000,000
2020	$352,670,000	$16,000,000	$368,670,000		under by 126m
2021	$366,647,000	$16,000,000	$382,647,000
2022	$396,543,000	$16,000,000	$412,543,000

 

[colly]

AFL Broadcast and Media Income

Year	Broadcast	Contra	Total	Rights Income	Announced Value
2012	$225,577,000	$27,000,000	$252,577,000
2013	$240,674,000	$27,000,000	$267,674,000
2014	$248,396,000	$27,000,000	$275,396,000	$1,370,403,000​	$ 1,253,000,000
2015	$256,602,000	$27,000,000	$283,602,000		over by 117m
2016	$264,154,000	$27,000,000	$291,154,000
2017	$381,028,000	$16,000,000	$397,028,000	Rights Income	Announced Value
2018	$391,504,000	$16,000,000	$407,504,000
2019	$397,439,000	$16,000,000	$413,439,000	$2,381,831,000​	$ 2,508,000,000
2020	$352,670,000	$16,000,000	$368,670,000		under by 126m
2021	$366,647,000	$16,000,000	$382,647,000
2022	$396,543,000	$16,000,000	$412,543,000

Well it looks like 'something else is in this (2022) revenue.
Ordinary the figure would have been roughly what is reported, Broadcast Media companies $350m with AFL media/Telstra ( heading) adding (known) $50 million to add all up to $400 million with $17m contra.
However with the COVID discounts flowing thru to this (2022 annual report) , I would hazard a guess that definitely Betting and possible jersey royalty make up the $54 million deficit that the COVID discounts add up to.

Seven and Foxtel lock in revised AFL deals

It's believed Seven will save around $70 million on rights fees over the next three years, while Foxtel will save around $90 million.

www.afr.com

Quote from above'
The AFL has agreed to a roughly 13 per cent discount of its rights fee of $415 million per season under the current agreement which was set to end at the end of the 2022. That means the sport will take just under a $54 million per year discount on its broadcast rights fees or a little over $160 million until the end of 2022." End of quote.

And if this is so, then a comparison with the NRL deal whereby we got $409 million against the AFL $396 million is a true refection on who won the battle in the year 2022 even with Telstra/AFL Media Included.

 

[Perth Red]

Well it looks like 'something else is in this (2022) revenue.
Ordinary the figure would have been roughly what is reported, Broadcast Media companies $350m with AFL media/Telstra ( heading) adding (known) $50 million to add all up to $400 million with $17m contra.
However with the COVID discounts flowing thru to this (2022 annual report) , I would hazard a guess that definitely Betting and possible jersey royalty make up the $54 million deficit that the COVID discounts add up to.

Seven and Foxtel lock in revised AFL deals

It's believed Seven will save around $70 million on rights fees over the next three years, while Foxtel will save around $90 million.

www.afr.com

Quote from above'
The AFL has agreed to a roughly 13 per cent discount of its rights fee of $415 million per season under the current agreement which was set to end at the end of the 2022. That means the sport will take just under a $54 million per year discount on its broadcast rights fees or a little over $160 million until the end of 2022." End of quote.

And if this is so, then a comparison with the NRL deal whereby we got $409 million against the AFL $396 million is a true refection on who won the battle in the year 2022 even with Telstra/AFL Media Included.

At most our media for 2022 was $409 - $52mill = $357mill(which when you add the contra on brings it to the $385mil originally announced in the deal)

 

[colly]

maybe

If we got $40mill (2021) wagering and $12mill merch (2019) then you can be confident they got same or more in 2022. So you saying they only got at most $344mill media, down $72mill on the 2018 deal announced?? Your logic isn't adding up.

You got trouble reading, AFR article clearly states that $54 million would come off the media deal ( 2017-2022) because of the COVID discounts reported in the story. So normally they would gave got $400m cash and $15m contra, well established fact, ( made up from Seven $150 Foxtel $250 and Telsra $50 to get $400 cash BUT where did the shortfall of $54 million (covid disc) come from OR what else was in the Broadcast media and AFL MEDIA to make up the the figure, most likely it is betting and Merch, to get their reported $396m.
Try again.

 

[Perth Red]

Im wondering if the uplift is in telstra increased value? They reported in 2020 they had signed the marvel deal with Telstra, has the work and payments already begun?

Looking at Wookies table its clear they werent reporting betting and merch in there before last year, so why now?

 

[colly]

Im wondering if the uplift is in telstra increased value? They reported in 2020 they had signed the marvel deal with Telstra, has the work already begun?

Originally it was to be $900m less Contra $60 makes $840m divided by six years makes $140m I was being generous by saying $150, still ... thier is no other way but to say we won the battle in 2022. NRL tops with over $400m pa.
Normally the AFl would have got $400m BUT discounts of $54 million means they too added betting/licensing towards their total, otherwise the gap would have been great, as it would show the NRL easily, so it doesn't sound dumb to renogotion on the way to be the first world body sport to get going after the Covid introduction and padding out a deal onto 2027 whereby it looks like we got more money than before the last deal- from foxtel of course.
Strange isn't it, the NRL won. I knew it was close and only the six year deal (AFL) as opposed to the Five year deal (NRL) made it look like the AFL was winning biggly.
But the figures themselves are out in the annual budgets for 2022 as provided by my post, plain as day we won.

 

[The_Wookie]

Well it looks like 'something else is in this (2022) revenue.
Ordinary the figure would have been roughly what is reported, Broadcast Media companies $350m with AFL media/Telstra ( heading) adding (known) $50 million to add all up to $400 million with $17m contra.
However with the COVID discounts flowing thru to this (2022 annual report) , I would hazard a guess that definitely Betting and possible jersey royalty make up the $54 million deficit that the COVID discounts add up to.

You can guess whatever you like. The AFL has never included wagering and license royalties in this category.


The report data stacks up

 

[Perth Red]

Originally it was to be $900m less Contra $60 makes $840m divided by six years makes $140m I was being generous by saying $150, still ... thier is no other way but to say we won the battle in 2022. NRL tops with over $400m pa.
Normally the AFl would have got $400m BUT discounts of $54 million means they too added betting/licensing towards their total, otherwise the gap would have been great, as it would show the NRL easily, so it doesn't sound dumb to renogotion on the way to be the first world body sport to get going after the Covid introduction and padding out a deal onto 2027 whereby it looks like we got more money than before the last deal- from foxtel of course.
Strange isn't it, the NRL won. I knew it was close and only the six year deal (AFL) as opposed to the Five year deal (NRL) made it look like the AFL was winning biggly.
But the figures themselves are out in the annual budgets for 2022 as provided by my post, plain as day we won.

To change an accounting practice like that without a note in the financials would be very unusual, to then add it into a comparison table year on year is a no no.
Good guess but I think in all probability you are incorrect. Does beg the question where the $48mill difference between the covid reduced amount and the reported 2022 media amount is. radio? increased telstra payment?

Unfortunately without us knowing how much wagering and merch licensing revenue is for NRL in 2022 its impossible to say what the actual tv and digital cash value is.

 

[The_Wookie]

To change an accounting practice like that without a note in the financials would be very unusual, to then add it into a comparison table year on year is a no no.
Good guess but I think in all probability you are incorrect. Does beg the question where the $48mill difference between the covid reduced amount and the reported 2022 media amount is. radio? increased telstra payment?

Unfortunately without us knowing how much wagering and merch licensing revenue is for NRL in 2022 its impossible to say what the actual tv and digital cash value is.

Radio would be some of it - SEN alone negotiated a 6 year deal for 10m - that deal was negotiated part way through. The 2022 report specifically notes a 29m increase in broadcast rights.

 

[colly]

Originally it was to be $900m less Contra $60 makes $840m divided by six years makes $140m I was being generous by saying $150, still ... thier is no other way but to say we won the battle in 2022. NRL tops with over $400m pa.
Normally the AFl would have got $400m BUT discounts of $54 million means they too added betting/licensing towards their total, otherwise the gap would have been great, as it would show the NRL easily, so it doesn't sound dumb to renogotion on the way to be the first world body sport to get going after the Covid introduction and padding out a deal onto 2027 whereby it looks like we got more money than before the last deal- from foxtel of course.
Strange isn't it, the NRL won. I knew it was close and only the six year deal (AFL) as opposed to the Five year deal (NRL) made it look like the AFL was winning biggly.
But the figures themselves are out in the annual budgets for 2022 as provided by my post, plain as day we won.

As stated above betting is included to take the figures work out. So we won on a straight out BUT we win big when we take Telstra (AFL media) 50 million contribution. Since the thread is only about TV- deal - discussion , I let you make up your own ideas, however it is a win.. even if we take out radio 10m $409 -10= $399

 

[The_Wookie]

As stated above betting is included to take the figures work out. So we won on a straight out BUT we win big when we take Telstra (AFL media) 50 million contribution. Since the thread is only about TV- deal - discussion , I let you make up your own ideas, however it is a win.. even if we take out radio 10m $409 -10= $399

Making up your own ideas appears to be a specialty of yours

betting isnt part of the AFL broadcast revenue - has never been part of the AFL broadcast revenue. You have completely invented something that simply is not true.

And Telstra is still not AFL Media, despite your apparent insistence that is. Despite any amount of proof that the two are separate.

 

[Wb1234]

 

[colly]

Look this how it is. Normal AFL deal $400 yearly pa from 2017-2022
Made up of Seven $150, Fox $215 and Telstra $50m = $415m (incl contra )or more importantly $400 cash pa
So to get to 'TV broadcast only we take off Telstra at $50
That gets us to $350m, TV Broadcast yearly income as per contract 2017- 2022 BUT
we have the AFR story that tell us the TV broadcast will be reduced by $54 million yearly up to and including 2022.
So we have $350m TV broadcast (excl Telstra) LESS the $54m COVID discount for 2022 to equal $296m TV broadcast income ( only) for the AFL in the year 2022 just reported. Show me where the figures are wrong.
So if the AFL report $396 repeat $396 million , which is a hundred million more than they got for the Broadcast TV income , this hundred million will made up with Telstra and 'something else to the value of $54 million, which by the way it is close to the betting and Merch MR dRed calculates for the NRL. The way it's calculated we won the the 2022 TV broadcast revenue ( actual discussion thread) by $54 million dollars.

 

[colly]

Look this how it is. Normal AFL deal $400 yearly pa from 2017-2022
Made up of Seven $150, Fox $215 and Telstra $50m = $415m (incl contra )or more importantly $400 cash pa
So to get to 'TV broadcast only we take off Telstra at $50
That gets us to $350m, TV Broadcast yearly income as per contract 2017- 2022 BUT
we have the AFR story that tell us the TV broadcast will be reduced by $54 million yearly up to and including 2022.
So we have $350m TV broadcast (excl Telstra) LESS the $54m COVID discount for 2022 to equal $296m TV broadcast income ( only) for the AFL in the year 2022 just reported. Show me where the figures are wrong.
So if the AFL report $396 repeat $396 million , which is a hundred million more than they got for the Broadcast TV income , this hundred million will made up with Telstra and 'somthing else to the value of $54 million, which by the way it is close to the betting and Merch MR dRed calcautes for the NRL. The way it's calculated we won the the 2022 TV broadcast revenue ( actual discussion thread) by $54 million dollars.

So the above proves the AFL got apox $296 million (broadcast TV income only) for the year 2022 when the AFR story/ $54 million discount up towards the 2022 contract.
How will we calculate the NRL deal for 2022, well top line figure is $409 million for 2022, BUT we have to take off Merch and Gambling license revenue which Mr dREd himself calculated at $52, which i will take on board, so where does this leave us, $409 million Less $52 million ( $40 gambling and $12m merch) , which is gambling and merch sales/license to get us to the grand figure of .....$357 million p/a for broadcast revenue for the NRL. Notice NRL did not have any website/replay money-ie Telstra License money like the AFL got, so again this thread TV discussion has the NRL out front on $357m TV broadcast income against $296m for the AFL
By the way the NRL is made up of $115 nine $32 sky NZ and Foxtel $210 = $357m Broadcast only and gamblimg and Merch of $52m you get a, drum roll please...$409 million for the NRL which was reported.

 

[Perth Red]

AFL $396mill - Telstra $50mill = $346 mill
NRL $409 mill - at least $72mill other (waging, digital, merch) $337mill (this is assuming $20mill digital revenue from nrl.com is still in there, and if it isnt where the hell is it?)

Thats tv and radio revenue only for both codes according to your logic.

AFL had a note in financials that media revenue increased $29mill. Maybe AFR is incorrect and the 2022 discount was not as great as the 20&21 years? Would make sense given the announcement that the extra $114mill for 23/24 was going to cover all the covid period reductions.

But like WB keeps posting we're wandering in the dark largely

 

[colly]

Making up your own ideas appears to be a specialty of yours

betting isnt part of the AFL broadcast revenue - has never been part of the AFL broadcast revenue. You have completely invented something that simply is not true.

And Telstra is still not AFL Media, despite your apparent insistence that is. Despite any amount of proof that the two are separate.

Lets look at the year 2021 which you yourself supplied , thanx for that, anyway here is the figure

It is $366 pa cash for 'broadcast' from your table... But for the AFL deal for the contract 2017-2022 it was always going to be close to $400m cash made up of Broadcaster Seven and Foxtel and a $50m Tesltra to get to the roughly $400m contract ....6 times $400m = 2.4 billion, notice I've give 19m to keep the calculation easy to understand . So the $366m dollars that AFL reported in 2021 included the Telstra contribution of $50m. So by rights we should take of $50m from the $366m figure to to the real figure for broadcasters only, which would be only $316m for 2021. If we go to next year reported 2022 we have a jump from $366 which always incl Telstra to $396m for the year. Telstra contribution included. Now comes the part when have to discount a know contract $400 pa AFL by the COVID discounts of $54 million yearly. It is the $40 m jump I can't calculate.
Look i was totally wrong about the $473m because i thought the Telstra contract ended when they stopped live streaming, obviously I was wrong, and the AFL enforced ( or Telstra didn't want to ) End the $50 million contribution. So the figure of $473 could be right in their contract NEXT YEAR, ( 2024, 2025) especially as the COVID discounts wont apply PLUS and they got a small increase from their 'broadcasters.' Any way I'm done until further 'evidence' comes up. Just finishing the NRL did win the broadcaster only amount unless you supply me good info.