NRL Salary Cap/CBA -2023 - 2027

[Chimp]

Because it runs out in Nov, it will take months for someone new to jump in

Lets compare to other industries

Why do the players need 9 weeks holidays? IR person will need that to be explained.

No other industry has revenue share, There are 2 things right there.

No other sport here has most of the stuff NRL has so there is more chance the players end up with the worst deal

Plus they’d need an in-depth understanding of all the negotiations, original requests, concessions etc that have already happened in the negotiation process.
The reality is, independent mediators haven’t worked so far (people can piss and moan and say they weren’t independent because of old relationships, but they were, and 1 was recommended by the RLPA - who walked away because they’ve weren’t budging).

PVL has made the offer to get it sorted in 48 hours, following on from Clint saying he’d step aside to get the deal done. Yet, when his bluff has been called, he now won’t step aside. An independent mediator will just extend the process and keep Clint relevant for longer, with no guarantee of an outcome. PVL has committed to 48 hours if Clint is out of the way. PVL has always delivered - so why not step aside for 48 hours and the deal could be done before the weekend.
It looks to me (and most sane, independent people) like Clint and the RLPA don’t want the deal to get done!
I’m a fan of the game, I want what is best for the future of the game, which includes the players - I have no reason to take the NRLs side over the players, but with no agenda or preconceived ideas, it looks very much to me that the NRL made a good offer, the RLPA have played hardball, subsequently got themselves an even better deal, but are now going way way too far. They’ve got a great deal, no Union would be still fighting at this point over further scraps, making out like the NRL ‘exploit players rights’, and taking industrial action over minor points that in reality are never going to cause an issue. They should take the win and move on, the only apparent reason they’re not is to drag this out for personal gain.
The issue around medical data for instance, what do they really think the NRL are going to do with that data that is so ‘exploitive’. Do they think they’re gonna earn millions from it? Do they think they’re going to share information with the press that compromises players? What sinister things do they really think the NRL are going to do with that data, and what are they basing such cynical views on? Have the NRL used players personal data for bad reasons previously? That’s not forgetting that any personal medical data is protected in law anyway, so doesn’t really need further protection in a CBA.
It’s ridiculous that they’re treating the NRL with such contempt, given how well the NRL looks after them, and the overall health of the professional game.

 

[siv]

Why do the players need 9 weeks holidays? IR person will need that to be explained.

Normally there is no issue for most players

Only issue occurs during Internationals when they are played in Oct/Nov

8 weeks is over Dec and Jan

Extend this to 9 weeks means it reduces the 6 week international rep season

Anyway a bye is a week off. So they got 3 this year

 

[Perth Red]

But you said there hadn’t been an independent mediator??? There has, and it didn’t work, so why waste more time and money?
Eventually, negotiations have to come to an end, and the RLPA have shown no flexibility.

But Clint is on record as saying he’d step aside if it meant getting a deal done, the offer is on the table from NRL for both him and Abdo to step aside and PVL will meet with the RLPA and ‘get a deal done within 48 hours’.
Clint offered, PVL and Abdo accepted, Clint backtracked….
So, I retort…. Offer is on the table, a deal to be done within 48 hours, Clint just has to do what he said he’d do, PVL has committed to getting it done, why don’t the RLPA accept that offer and get it done - worst case scenario, after 48 hours, if it’s still not resolved, they’re in no worse position. Why won’t they accept that? They have nothing to lose, other than it confirming Clint was the problem….

Because the rlpa have said they’ll abide by decisions, the last one just walked as frustrated. If they renege after saying that then they will lose all support including people like me who generally will back the players over the nrl every day.

clint offered to walk, the players told him not to. He’s ultimately employed by the players and reports to the board. they want to be confident the people in the room are the right people to be fighting their cause. Rightly or wrongly the players see clint and the rest of his team as that group. Who’s going to take his place? players with no legal background or contract negation skill? Yeh that’ll work!

Vlandys has committed to get it done if they agree with what he wants! Rlpa quite rightly are refusing. Time for an independent expert to come in and put forward the way, then they both need to sign up to it. If either side doesn’t after that they should quite rightly be absolutely slammed.

 

[Perth Red]

Because it runs out in Nov, it will take months for someone new to jump in

Not according to legal experts who know about this sht,

 

[Perth Red]

Plus they’d need an in-depth understanding of all the negotiations, original requests, concessions etc that have already happened in the negotiation process.

Not according to the experts whose bread and butter this work is.

 

[Perth Red]

Normally there is no issue for most players

Only issue occurs during Internationals when they are played in Oct/Nov

8 weeks is over Dec and Jan

Extend this to 9 weeks means it reduces the 6 week international rep season

Anyway a bye is a week off. So they got 3 this year

I disagree with this. Being picked to play for your country is a privilege and a choice if you say want to take up the offer. If you want more holidays turn down the offer. The international game shouldn’t suffer because of unilateral enforced leave periods.

 

[Chimp]

I disagree with this. Being picked to play for your country is a privilege and a choice if you say want to take up the offer. If you want more holidays turn down the offer. The international game shouldn’t suffer because of unilateral enforced leave periods.

Absolutely, 100% agree with you on this!

 

[Chimp]

Because the rlpa have said they’ll abide by decisions, the last one just walked as frustrated. If they renege after saying that then they will lose all support including people like me who generally will back the players over the nrl every day.

clint offered to walk, the players told him not to. He’s ultimately employed by the players and reports to the board. they want to be confident the people in the room are the right people to be fighting their cause. Rightly or wrongly the players see clint and the rest of his team as that group. Who’s going to take his place? players with no legal background or contract negation skill? Yeh that’ll work!

Vlandys has committed to get it done if they agree with what he wants! Rlpa quite rightly are refusing. Time for an independent expert to come in and put forward the way, then they both need to sign up to it. If either side doesn’t after that they should quite rightly be absolutely slammed.

PVL hasn’t said they have to agree with what he wants, I suspect he’ll concede on most points. But it’s got to the point where Clint needs to step aside, he offered to do it and reneged - regardless of if players said so etc, he shouldn’t have made the offer if he wasn’t in a position to stand by it.

As for independence, we’ll go round in circles because you assume this time the RLPA would play ball, but facts are, with 2 previous independent mediators, they didn’t….
Eventually enough has to be enough, and the NRL are clearly at that point.

 

[Chimp]

I disagree with this. Being picked to play for your country is a privilege and a choice if you say want to take up the offer. If you want more holidays turn down the offer. The international game shouldn’t suffer because of unilateral enforced leave periods.

Just on another note linked to internationals, and the fact the players don’t want the funds to come from ‘their NRL money’.
The RFL annual accounts were released last week (and as expected, they’ve not got a pot to piss in), but it shows they made losses on the World Cup….. So, using the players rationale, does that mean that they’ll pay their cut towards the losses?
Of course, I am being facetious, but it shows that trying to find the international game from the revenue it generates is not possible, and the players pushing for it, given the increase they’ve got overall, IS pushing for more money, and it’s unreasonable.
Internationals should be seen as a an honour, and any payment should be seen as an incentive, but it has to come from somewhere, and given international games are not guaranteed to make money, it’s entirely reasonable for this to come for the current money set aside, which is very generous.

 

[Iamback]

Plus they’d need an in-depth understanding of all the negotiations, original requests, concessions etc that have already happened in the negotiation process.
The reality is, independent mediators haven’t worked so far (people can piss and moan and say they weren’t independent because of old relationships, but they were, and 1 was recommended by the RLPA - who walked away because they’ve weren’t budging).

PVL has made the offer to get it sorted in 48 hours, following on from Clint saying he’d step aside to get the deal done. Yet, when his bluff has been called, he now won’t step aside. An independent mediator will just extend the process and keep Clint relevant for longer, with no guarantee of an outcome. PVL has committed to 48 hours if Clint is out of the way. PVL has always delivered - so why not step aside for 48 hours and the deal could be done before the weekend.
It looks to me (and most sane, independent people) like Clint and the RLPA don’t want the deal to get done!
I’m a fan of the game, I want what is best for the future of the game, which includes the players - I have no reason to take the NRLs side over the players, but with no agenda or preconceived ideas, it looks very much to me that the NRL made a good offer, the RLPA have played hardball, subsequently got themselves an even better deal, but are now going way way too far. They’ve got a great deal, no Union would be still fighting at this point over further scraps, making out like the NRL ‘exploit players rights’, and taking industrial action over minor points that in reality are never going to cause an issue. They should take the win and move on, the only apparent reason they’re not is to drag this out for personal gain.
The issue around medical data for instance, what do they really think the NRL are going to do with that data that is so ‘exploitive’. Do they think they’re gonna earn millions from it? Do they think they’re going to share information with the press that compromises players? What sinister things do they really think the NRL are going to do with that data, and what are they basing such cynical views on? Have the NRL used players personal data for bad reasons previously? That’s not forgetting that any personal medical data is protected in law anyway, so doesn’t really need further protection in a CBA.
It’s ridiculous that they’re treating the NRL with such contempt, given how well the NRL looks after them, and the overall health of the professional game.

I wouldn't mind seeing where the other Australian codes sit for the issues the RLPA are in dispute with.

Like you I think most of it is tin foil hat type of things

 

[Iamback]

Not according to legal experts who know about this sht,

The article you posted said it could be done. Not that is could be done in a timely matter, That is also not counting the waiting time to get it started

 

[Iamback]

I disagree with this. Being picked to play for your country is a privilege and a choice if you say want to take up the offer. If you want more holidays turn down the offer. The international game shouldn’t suffer because of unilateral enforced leave periods.

Hence why the RLPA's worries over an extended season makes no sense. Also why what has been agreed too is a pretty good deal for players

9 weeks holiday
4 week final series
1 week between GF and tests
4 week internationals
6 week pre season training
2 week pre season comp

That leaves not many weeks to extend the season

 

[Perth Red]

PVL hasn’t said they have to agree with what he wants, I suspect he’ll concede on most points. But it’s got to the point where Clint needs to step aside, he offered to do it and reneged - regardless of if players said so etc, he shouldn’t have made the offer if he wasn’t in a position to stand by it.

As for independence, we’ll go round in circles because you assume this time the RLPA would play ball, but facts are, with 2 previous independent mediators, they didn’t….
Eventually enough has to be enough, and the NRL are clearly at that point.

I agree, probably one of those spur of the moment things people say in interviews. Reality is that isnt his choice, his job is literally to lead these negotiations. Lets say him and his team did step aside. Who takes their place? DCE and Welch? lol


Just appoint an independent expert, let them deem what is and isnt reasonable and both sides sign the bloody thing. They have said they will. Given they are calling for this and have said they will abide by it Vlandys actually has them over a barrel if he agrees. If they dont then they wont have any public support at all and it will get very bad for them.

 

[Perth Red]

Just on another note linked to internationals, and the fact the players don’t want the funds to come from ‘their NRL money’.
The RFL annual accounts were released last week (and as expected, they’ve not got a pot to piss in), but it shows they made losses on the World Cup….. So, using the players rationale, does that mean that they’ll pay their cut towards the losses?
Of course, I am being facetious, but it shows that trying to find the international game from the revenue it generates is not possible, and the players pushing for it, given the increase they’ve got overall, IS pushing for more money, and it’s unreasonable.
Internationals should be seen as a an honour, and any payment should be seen as an incentive, but it has to come from somewhere, and given international games are not guaranteed to make money, it’s entirely reasonable for this to come for the current money set aside, which is very generous.

Well if they are willing to take that risk. Simple really, say players will get paid X% of revenue/profit generated from internationals. It then becomes incumbent on them to make internationals as successful as possible, everyone's a winner. If they make a loss they dont get paid. I think we all know that if run well and with the Tv $'s here that internationals could be the next cash cow for the NRL. Players know this. they arent as dumb as we like to think.

Still dont understand how players not in the NRl are going to get paid for these games under the NRLs proposed system??

 

[Perth Red]

The article you posted said it could be done. Not that is could be done in a timely matter, That is also not counting the waiting time to get it started

There's legal bods in other articles who've said that this is what the experts do for a living and wouldn't need much time to review and put forward a position to both parties. This isnt about negotiating, its about reviewing what both sides want and putting forward the position that would be deemed most appropriate. This is why I suspect NRL is so reticent. I think they think that of they hold out long enough they'll win out. Meanwhile the players juts keep escalating their frustrations.

 

[Iamback]

Normally there is no issue for most players

Only issue occurs during Internationals when they are played in Oct/Nov

8 weeks is over Dec and Jan

Extend this to 9 weeks means it reduces the 6 week international rep season

Anyway a bye is a week off. So they got 3 this year

AFL is 8 weeks off no Internationals to deal with.

Cricket has 30% player share

Both are better in the NRL CBA

 

[Chimp]

There's legal bods in other articles who've said that this is what the experts do for a living and wouldn't need much time to review and put forward a position to both parties. This isnt about negotiating, its about reviewing what both sides want and putting forward the position that would be deemed most appropriate. This is why I suspect NRL is so reticent. I think they think that of they hold out long enough they'll win out. Meanwhile the players juts keep escalating their frustrations.

A mediator doesn’t decide which side of the arguement is right/wrong, they simply referee the 2 sides. It wouldn’t be them coming in and making proposals - that would require an independent arbitrator.
A mediator simply tries to get the 2 sides to play nicely, which again I suspect is why the NRL aren’t wasting their time or money on that again.

Well if they are willing to take that risk. Simple really, say players will get paid X% of revenue/profit generated from internationals. It then becomes incumbent on them to make internationals as successful as possible, everyone's a winner. If they make a loss they dont get paid. I think we all know that if run well and with the Tv $'s here that internationals could be the next cash cow for the NRL. Players know this. they arent as dumb as we like to think.

Still dont understand how players not in the NRl are going to get paid for these games under the NRLs proposed system??

NRL only need to worry about playing players from NRL - would be much better to have internationals governed and paid completely separate, but that would result in much lower payments.
Looks to me like the NRL are trying to do their best to fairly reward all international players from their competition, in what is a bit of a shamozzle of the international game. It certainly appears to be done with best endeavours in mind, but the RLPA think it’s some big conspiracy to take money away from them…..

 

[Perth Red]

A mediator doesn’t decide which side of the arguement is right/wrong, they simply referee the 2 sides. It wouldn’t be them coming in and making proposals - that would require an independent arbitrator.
A mediator simply tries to get the 2 sides to play nicely, which again I suspect is why the NRL aren’t wasting their time or money on that again.



NRL only need to worry about playing players from NRL - would be much better to have internationals governed and paid completely separate, but that would result in much lower payments.
Looks to me like the NRL are trying to do their best to fairly reward all international players from their competition, in what is a bit of a shamozzle of the international game. It certainly appears to be done with best endeavours in mind, but the RLPA think it’s some big conspiracy to take money away from them…..

So who pays the International players not in the nrl?

 

[Chimp]

So who pays the International players not in the nrl?

I don’t actually know, I think it’s left to the respecting international bodies (probably RFL for England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland), French Federation etc…. The spanner in the works was when the Australian players suddenly started getting paid a fortune for Origin and Aus.
I genuinely think internationals should revert back to just having costs covered, and it should be standard across the board, to ensure a level playing field.
Put honour back in the jersey, so then you won’t get PNG, Fiji and other pacific island players choosing Aus for a payday. Obviously we’ve seen the Samoans and Tongans go back to heritage recently, but take away any financial incentive to play for Aus and you’ll get more choosing their preferred nation.
Either way, what the RLPA are pissing and moaning about is still ridiculous on the international payments - they’ve got a bloody good deal, stop penny pinching.

 

[Iamback]

There's legal bods in other articles who've said that this is what the experts do for a living and wouldn't need much time to review and put forward a position to both parties. This isnt about negotiating, its about reviewing what both sides want and putting forward the position that would be deemed most appropriate. This is why I suspect NRL is so reticent. I think they think that of they hold out long enough they'll win out. Meanwhile the players juts keep escalating their frustrations.

As Chimp said.

They are a referee in the fight not a judge. That is what the players have wrong.

The argument basically needs to start again for them to do their job