NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[Canard]

Queensland Cup and NSW Cup could become NRL1 North and NRL1 South.

Without the ARLC bailing out NRL clubs to the tune of $4m on top of the salary cap we will probably see two or three Sydney clubs forced to drop down to NRL1, which will help it gain credibility and increase its worth to broadcasters.

NRL

Auckland Warriors
Brisbane Broncos
Brisbane Tigers
Canberra Raiders
Canterbury Bulldogs
Gold Coast Titans
Manly Seagulls
Moreton Bay Dolphins
Newcastle Knights
North Queensland Cowboys
Parramatta Eels
Penrith Panthers
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Southern Dragons
Sydney Roosters
West Coast Pirates

NRL1 North

Brisbane Devils
Cairns Cyclones
Central Queensland Capras
Ipswich Jets
Mackay Cutters
New Caledonia XIII
PNG Hunters
Sunshine Coast Falcons
Toowoomba Clydesdales
Wynnum Seagulls

NRL1 South

Adelaide Rams
Central Coast
Cronulla Sharks
Kaiviti Silktails
Illawarra Steelers
Newtown Jets
North Coast
North Sydney Bears
Wellington Orcas
Western Sydney Magpies (Wests Tigers)

Rebranding the 120 year history of the QRL to NRL1 would do what exactly?

 

[Canard]

is it? Wellington, Christchurch, Gosford, NS, Newtown, Wentworth, Sunshine and central Qlnd coast etc etc, pretty reasonable populations. Throw in some options like wollongong and Macarthur, as wella s some of the QARL Brisbane clubs as well.
At the moment people arent really following state comps as they arent legit and mostly exist to be reserve grade for NRl. Is there room for a genuine second division that isnt a reserve grade system? not sure but we know we have a number of issues

1. Cities that dont have NRL clubs and probably never will
2. State comps that are kind of, kind of not a reserve grade
3. General acceptance that the loss of a youth NRL comp has been detrimental

Is a second division and NRL reserve grade the answer? Not sure but worth consideration, IF the NRL ever generates AFL level revenue.

The majority of those locations have State League sides now.

Like I said you are spending millions for a tiny niche.

 

[Perth Red]

The majority of those locations have State League sides now.

Like I said you are spending millions for a tiny niche.

And like I said no one is interested in following a club in a comp that is fatally flawed in its integrity.

 

[Colk]

is it? Wellington, Christchurch, Gosford, NS, Newtown, Wentworth, Sunshine and central Qlnd coast etc etc, pretty reasonable populations. Throw in some options like wollongong and Macarthur, as wella s some of the QARL Brisbane clubs as well.
At the moment people arent really following state comps as they arent legit and mostly exist to be reserve grade for NRl. Is there room for a genuine second division that isnt a reserve grade system? not sure but we know we have a number of issues

1. Cities that dont have NRL clubs and probably never will
2. State comps that are kind of, kind of not a reserve grade
3. General acceptance that the loss of a youth NRL comp has been detrimental

Is a second division and NRL reserve grade the answer? Not sure but worth consideration, IF the NRL ever generates AFL level revenue.

It is if it’s a third grade competition.

What you’re suggesting is a minor league competition pure and simple. The problem is you are putting in a reserve grade above it for whatever reason. The NY Yankees or the Houston Astros or the Chicago Cubs or LA Dodgers don’t have a reserve grade side - they pick blokes from the Minors

That’s the only way an idea like yours works because their minor league is filled with blokes who have played in the majors or blokes who potentially could play in the majors. That’s the drawcard and where you get the interest - otherwise what’s the point

 

[Perth Red]

It is if it’s a third grade competition.

What you’re suggesting is a minor league competition pure and simple. The problem is you are putting in a reserve grade above it for whatever reason. The NY Yankees or the Houston Astros or the Chicago Cubs or LA Dodgers don’t have a reserve grade side - they pick blokes from the Minors

That’s the only way an idea like yours works because their minor league is filled with blokes who have played in the majors or blokes who potentially could play in the majors. That’s the drawcard and where you get the interest - otherwise what’s the point

That sounds a bit different to us though where SOME state comp clubs are stacked with NRL reserve graders thus rendering the competition a bit pointless in terms of supporting a club and hoping they win.

The point is to create a legit decent level competition that generates interest and a comp worth following for RL fans who dont live in an area represented by an NRL club.

 

[Perth Red]

On talent development, is this really an option of just Pistol pete shooting off his mouth again? Id have thought it would cost a lot of money to develop any sort of system that took college AF players and turned them into RL players?


The NRL could look to the US to flesh out the league’s talent pool, with Peter V’Landys flagging the idea to poach American college footballers.

It would help clubs find new young players, and assist in the ARLC boss’ bold expansion plans to introduce an 18th club.

The Courier Mail’s chief rugby league writer Peter Badel said Mr V’landys was open to looking abroad for talent.

“[Peter V’landys] suggested that look there is some criticism about the talent pool in the NRL, and his argument is, if we have some issues finding talent for an 18th team, feasibly, ostensibly why not look elsewhere,” he told Peter Fegan, filling in on Brisbane Live.

“If supply is an issue, look to other markets and he suggested the NFL given that, as he pointed out, thousands possibly hundreds of thousands of American athletes miss out on making the NFL, surely some of them a small percentage of them could make a successful conversion to the NRL.”

How the NRL hopes to expand the code for an 18th team

The NRL could look to the US to flesh out the league’s talent pool, with Peter V’Landys flagging the idea to poach American college footballers. It would help clubs find new young players, and assist in the ARLC boss’ bold expansion plans to introduce an 18th club. The Courier Mail’s chief rugby...

www.4bc.com.au

 

[Colk]

That sounds a bit different to us though where SOME state comp clubs are stacked with NRL reserve graders thus rendering the competition a bit pointless in terms of supporting a club and hoping they win.

The point is to create a legit decent level competition that generates interest and a comp worth following for RL fans who dont live in an area represented by an NRL club.

That’s how it works and that’s why it works.

I get what your concerns are and to some degree I agree however you would either have to do it these ways:

1. Fully align it with NRL clubs so for example their squads would increase to say 40 or 45 and these teams would be full reserve grade sides

2. You truncate NRL squads to maximum 20-25 (you could make all on game day and play anyone in that 25 on game day) with the ability to bring in up to say 10-15 from the secondary league with a cap. These arrangements timewise can be based on injuries or rep fill ins etc but NRL clubs can pick from anybody in this minor league. Totally open slather.

This idea with a reserve grade wouldn’t work because either this competition would falter because people will go who I am watching and players will go elsewhere because there is no proper link with the premier competition or it simply takes the place of reserve grade because the money it is better. There would be inevitable conflict with having two secondary professional competitions.

 

[Wb1234]

Sure cheaper ways. I’m sure it will be cheaper for a QLD NRL side to run juniors 500km away.

Broncos we’re getting players from Cherbourg and anywhere else in qld

https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sports/keano-kini-and-karl-oloapu-share-justin-hodges-medal-for-langer-player-of-the-year/news-story/4fe39470338f66b00c11f16505eb2b81

and look all the best players are already with nrl clubs

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

That’s how it works and that’s why it works.

I get what your concerns are and to some degree I agree however you would either have to do it these ways:

1. Fully align it with NRL clubs so for example their squads would increase to say 40 or 45 and these teams would be full reserve grade sides

2. You truncate NRL squads to maximum 20-25 (you could make all on game day and play anyone in that 25 on game day) with the ability to bring in up to say 10-15 from the secondary league with a cap. These arrangements timewise can be based on injuries or rep fill ins etc but NRL clubs can pick from anybody in this minor league. Totally open slather.

This idea with a reserve grade wouldn’t work because either this competition would falter because people will go who I am watching and players will go elsewhere because there is no proper link with the premier competition or it simply takes the place of reserve grade because the money it is better. There would be inevitable conflict with having two secondary professional competitions.

I like the idea of having 20 or 22 players in a squad who can play on gameday. With the HIA rule making it inevitable that players will be forced out of matches due to concussion then it's vital to have plenty of players who can cover for them.

Maybe go back to the unlimited interchange system but increase the interchange bench to 22 so there can be backup half-backs, dummy halves, fullbacks, centres/wingers, middle forwards and edge forwards?

It's impossible to cover all of those positions with just a four man bench.

The major benefit is coaches can play development players for a few minutes to gain valuable experience and rest their stars when possible to avoid player burnout.

 

[Canard]

And like I said no one is interested in following a club in a comp that is fatally flawed in its integrity.

How did you arrive at such an opinion? And do you seriously think the arbitrary criteria you have developed will suddenly generate great interest?

That sounds a bit different to us though where SOME state comp clubs are stacked with NRL reserve graders thus rendering the competition a bit pointless in terms of supporting a club and hoping they win.

The point is to create a legit decent level competition that generates interest and a comp worth following for RL fans who dont live in an area represented by an NRL club.

I've never heard of a competition generating interest by gutting all its talent, and lowering every club to the same standard.

Your proposal seems like an anti-competition, anti-entertainment.

 

[Colk]

I like the idea of having 20 or 22 players in a squad who can play on gameday. With the HIA rule making it inevitable that players will be forced out of matches due to concussion then it's vital to have plenty of players who can cover for them.

Maybe go back to the unlimited interchange system but increase the interchange bench to 22 or 22 so there can be backup half-backs, dummy halves, fullbacks, centres/wingers, middle forwards and edge forwards?

It's impossible to cover all of those positions with just a four man bench.

The major benefit is coaches can play development players for a few minutes to gain valuable experience and rest their stars when possible to avoid player burnout.

That’s kind of how works with soccer and other sports in any case.

Instead of unlimited per se I would just say once a player is replaced that’s it, maybe amend that slightly for props perhaps but otherwise that’s it

 

[Canard]

That’s kind of how works with soccer and other sports in any case.

Instead of unlimited per se I would just say once a player is replaced that’s it, maybe amend that slightly for props perhaps but otherwise that’s it

Congratulations, you guys have landed on the rules for Rugby Union

 

[Colk]

Congratulations, you guys have landed on the rules for Rugby Union

I don’t remember talking about introducing rucks, mauls and lineouts

 

[Perth Red]

That’s how it works and that’s why it works.

I get what your concerns are and to some degree I agree however you would either have to do it these ways:

1. Fully align it with NRL clubs so for example their squads would increase to say 40 or 45 and these teams would be full reserve grade sides

2. You truncate NRL squads to maximum 20-25 (you could make all on game day and play anyone in that 25 on game day) with the ability to bring in up to say 10-15 from the secondary league with a cap. These arrangements timewise can be based on injuries or rep fill ins etc but NRL clubs can pick from anybody in this minor league. Totally open slather.

This idea with a reserve grade wouldn’t work because either this competition would falter because people will go who I am watching and players will go elsewhere because there is no proper link with the premier competition or it simply takes the place of reserve grade because the money it is better. There would be inevitable conflict with having two secondary professional competitions.

I think it could be the other way if NRL reserve grade is set up as youth and reserve grade sides. So say NRL club has a 25 man first grade roster and a 15 man U21's roster. Those make up the reserve grade side. Ay retiring players or players no longer wanted by NRL could play in NRL2 so there would be "names" in some sides.

Agree re cap, you'd need to structure it accordingly so say NRL has a min cap of $180k and NRL 2 a max payment of $150k or similar. Maybe a marquee signing allowance for one name of $250k or similar. I reckon theres a lot of 30 year old players discarded by NRl that would be keen to play on for another 5 years or so in NRL2 as well as English players who'd be keen to play in Aus on that wage.

The benefit is those NRL2 clubs would also be developing players and the ones who slip through the cracks of NRL clubs still get a chance to develop and maybe pick up a NRl contract in the future.

Having 38 or so professional clubs would be highly ambitious in a country our size but if we want a genuine opportunity to move ahead of AFL then maybe we need to get a bit ambitious.

 

[Perth Red]

How did you arrive at such an opinion? And do you seriously think the arbitrary criteria you have developed will suddenly generate great interest?



I've never heard of a competition generating interest by gutting all its talent, and lowering every club to the same standard.

Your proposal seems like an anti-competition, anti-entertainment.

current crowds and audiences for State clubs. The evidence is pretty strong that fans are not following the comps in any great numbers, maybe its lack of interest in anything above top tier or maybe its because fans dont want to watch pseudo reserve grade sides?

No I dont think it will 'suddenly' do anything, but it is something that can be built and built on. Im not married to the idea at all but I can see that we need some different solutions to now and a NRL2, if we had the money, could be a solution to many of the problems we currently have below NRL.

thats a stretch statement, even for you lol

anyways we are well off topic and there is a NRL2 thread somewhere in here for those interested in continuing the debate.

 

[Iamback]

Jesus wept. I’ll make this simple.

QRL and NSWRL attain money from broadcasters, sponsors as well as from the ARLC to run these competitions because they are considered to be the second grade competitions. Right, where do you think this money is going to go if this is replaced by a NRL Reserve Grade competition? Do you think the Capras or the Mackay Cutters or other far flung areas are still going to have the money to be an entrant in a Statewide Amateur competition when you take the money away from this competition?

In this absence, who is going to fund these areas? Assuming you are going to say NRL clubs will. Considering some of the dire stories you hear of regional football in NSW I don’t think that is a good model at all.

Lastly, they will go - you know why? NRL squad numbers will have to increase to 40 and even more if you add an NYC competition so clubs are going to have to pull this talent from somewhere.

Furthermore, if the Capras or Mackay Cutters somehow survive long term, they won’t have the money to purchase players and no player with any dreams of playing NRL will go there.

All this idea does is migrate talent from regions like Central Queensland etc to Brisbane in a lot of cases before they are ready to do so and if they initially fail (say play NYC and fail to make a reserve grade squad) that’s their career.

How much funding does the QLD Cup as a whole get? Here I was thinking QRL got the money from the NRL to fund things like the Mal Meninga Cup and Colts team

Rockhampton Leagues Club funds Capras and would stop if a few players stopped playing?

https://www.capras.com.au/players

None of these will play NRL in 2023 anyway

There won't be an NYC. Having no fulltimers opens up the comp for the likes of Perth to enter and be some what competitive

 

[MugaB]

Queensland Cup and NSW Cup could become NRL1 North and NRL1 South.

Without the ARLC bailing out NRL clubs to the tune of $4m on top of the salary cap we will probably see two or three Sydney clubs forced to drop down to NRL1, which will help it gain credibility and increase its worth to broadcasters.

NRL

Auckland Warriors
Brisbane Broncos
Brisbane Tigers
Canberra Raiders
Canterbury Bulldogs
Gold Coast Titans
Manly Seagulls
Moreton Bay Dolphins
Newcastle Knights
North Queensland Cowboys
Parramatta Eels
Penrith Panthers
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Southern Dragons
Sydney Roosters
West Coast Pirates

NRL1 North

Brisbane Devils
Cairns Cyclones
Central Queensland Capras
Ipswich Jets
Mackay Cutters
New Caledonia XIII
PNG Hunters
Sunshine Coast Falcons
Toowoomba Clydesdales
Wynnum Seagulls

NRL1 South

Adelaide Rams
Central Coast
Cronulla Sharks
Kaiviti Silktails
Illawarra Steelers
Newtown Jets
North Coast
North Sydney Bears
Wellington Orcas
Western Sydney Magpies (Wests Tigers)

Forgot Melbourne Storm & Cronulla dipshit
And its Manly "Sea Eagles", or are you wanting to merge Wynnum with Manly Warringah

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I'd follow the Queensland Cup if the QRL brought back the Logan Scorpions, or at least relocated the Magpies to Logan and rebranded them as Logan Magpies. There is no room for the Magpies at West End, and the club's finances prove it. Crowds are tiny and would be lucky to number 50 people.

Brisbane Tigers can cover the Magpies' original territory.

Wynnum Manly have support in Redlands and share the same colours as Redlands Parrots. They've even played games at Pinklands and are heavily involved with promoting Touch Rugby League games at their home games. The BRL team of the Seagulls temporarily rebranded themselves as Wynnum Manly Redland City Seagulls a few seasons ago. The club should rebrand as Redland City Seagulls.

 

[Canard]

I'd follow the Queensland Cup if the QRL brought back the Logan Scorpions, or at least relocated the Magpies to Logan and rebranded them as Logan Magpies. There is no room for the Magpies at West End, and the club's finances prove it. Crowds are tiny and would be lucky to number 50 people.

Brisbane Tigers can cover the Magpies' original territory.

Wynnum Manly have support in Redlands and share the same colours as Redlands Parrots. They've even played games at Pinklands and are heavily involved with promoting Touch Rugby League games at their home games. The BRL team of the Seagulls temporarily rebranded themselves as Wynnum Manly Redland City Seagulls a few seasons ago. The club should rebrand as Redland City Seagulls.

This is just as self interested, catering to a tiny niche, as any North Sydney fan, or a fantasist who wants the game to spend $200M so they can watch some idealised 3rd tier competition at the expense of player development.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

This is just as self interested, catering to a tiny niche, as any North Sydney fan, or a fantasist who wants the game to spend $200M so they can watch some idealised 3rd tier competition at the expense of player development.

So you're fine with Brisbane having the Magpies and Tigers' headquarters sitting just 7.4km from each other while Logan, which is a 40 year old city with about 360k people according to the Our Logan magazine -- spread out over an area of 958 km2 -- has none?

The QRL met with the Logan City Council a couple of years' ago about leasing land at Heritage Park for a Queensland Cup team.

The problems facing the Magpies are the same ones that condemned Pastoral Brothers Leprechauns, Fortitude Valley Diehards and Western Suburbs Panthers to death. They were too close to one another and competing with a larger competitor (Broncos). Magpies are too close to Tigers and also competing with the Lions. No wonder they've got no money. If they relocated full time to Logan then they could focus exclusively on developing players from all over the city, which would do more for the game than sitting unnoticed at the gentrified inner Brisbane suburb of West End.

How is broadening the Seagulls' reach "catering to a tiny niche"?

The combined population of Wynnum, Wynnum West, Manly and Manly West is around 40k. Redlands has a population greater than 150k and not far off 160k. Keeping the Seagulls as "Wynnum Manly" is the very definition of "catering to a tiny niche".