Organised crime and drugs in sport investigation part II

[Canard]

Seems a funny double standard in all of this, by the Australian media.

16 year old Chinese swimmer is a "f**king cheat!"

But 22 year old footy player "innocent victim!"

 

[Card Shark]

Of course crims try to keep ahead of the pack,it's been going on for ages.That's why new techniques and technologies are introduced and more resources put into play.

Looking at the title of this thread, whatever did happen with the Organised Crime component of the "Blackest Day In Australian Sport ".

It's been about Dank & footy clubs & SFA about crims.

 

[Bjorn Pork]

The consensus, however, from the law enforcement and anti-doping and sporting community is that the federal government pushed the ACC to go too early and too hard.

For the Magpie4ever brigade...if this line (from the McKenzie and Baker article in the Age this morning) is true, then would you admit that this is evidence of political interference in the process?

 

[Sea_Eagles_Rock]

WADA also insists what Essendon took is banned yet that same article is more about how AFL players should not be banned

AOD-9604, used as a cream or injected in liquid form, is not prohibited by WADA but is also not approved for human use.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-07/explainer-performance-enhancing-substances/4506126

I just had a look on their website and cannot see it on their list of banned substance. Perhaps it is under another name. Actovegin is there.

It has not changed from last year and Actovegin is not prohibited in sport under the WADA List except if it is used by intravenous infusion.
Intravenous infusions are prohibited according to section M2 (Chemical and Physical Manipulation) of the List.
Intravenous injections with a simple syringe are permitted if the injected substance is not prohibited, the volume does not exceed 50 mL, and the intravenous injections are given at intervals equal or greater than six hours.

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Resources/Q-and-A/2012-Prohibited-List/

 

[Sea_Eagles_Rock]

Dank is very comfortable in his position. I still think he holds something up his sleeve that could turn this all back on ASADA yet. How did those text messages between Hird and Dank get out? I can't imagine Hird supplied them.

He was willing to sit down for that interview with 7:30 Report. I can't see how he can be as comfortable as he is without something that clears his name.

 

[El Diablo]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-07/explainer-performance-enhancing-substances/4506126

I just had a look on their website and cannot see it on their list of banned substance. Perhaps it is under another name. Actovegin is there.



http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Resources/Q-and-A/2012-Prohibited-List/

Fairfax Media can reveal that WADA's List Committee of Experts panel recently told Australia's sports doping agency, ASADA, that AOD9604 should be considered as a prohibited substance under one of its controversial catch-all rules.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-injected-drugs-20130410-2hlvx.html

 

[Pete Cash]

Yet my understanding he was dobbed in by teammates,who did not follow the "team"culture.

If it is good enough for WADA and ASADA to provide bans resulting in livelihood losses for athletes,then in my view it is good enough for organisations who are the arbiters ,to have the resources and knowhow to update their lists regularly.This is the age of the computer,not done by someone with a ball point pen.Generalisation is bloody amateurish.
Anyone has only to look at the Tax act which rules and regulations that fill a library.

Its not just with PEDs though. Australia has an analogue act so absurdly broad it could potentially have hundreds to thousands of potential compounds banned that aren't even invented yet.

 

[Sea_Eagles_Rock]

Demetriou 'should pull head in', says Dank

Andrew Demetriou 'should pull his head in', Stephen Dank says

CONTROVERSIAL sports scientist Stephen Dank has attacked Andrew Demetriou, saying the AFL chief executive's comments about the Essendon supplement crisis are out of line.

Dank said he would never endanger anyone with the substances he administers through his work.

The former Essendon sports scientist is at the centre of doping investigations that have rocked the AFL and NRL.

Dank has also alleged he injected Bombers coach James Hird with hexarelin - a growth hormone-releasing substance not banned for coaches.

Hird is now under growing pressure to stand down pending the results of investigations into Essendon.

Demetriou said on Thursday he was horrified at some of the substances allegedly involved last year in Essendon's supplement program, which Dank oversaw.


But Dank dismissed Demetriou's concerns in a statement given to Channel Nine, saying the AFL boss was "way out of line" and "should pull his head in".

"He should be very careful about the comments he's making publicly," Dank said.

"He has never identified any substance as being, to use his words, 'injurious'.

"I challenge him to do that."

Dank added the last time he checked, Demetriou had no medical or scientific background.

The sports scientist also had mixed feelings about Hird, saying the Bombers coach had done nothing wrong.


But he added it was not his place to comment on Hird's reaction to the crisis.

"I know he has done nothing wrong as far as the supplement program goes - he should not be sacked for his part in that," Dank said.

"As for the way he's handled himself in recent times, that is for others to judge.

"It is perhaps understandable that his reaction is a product of fear and ignorance generated by the way authorities have mishandled the investigation."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-04-12/dank-hits-back-at-demetriou

 

[Sea_Eagles_Rock]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-injected-drugs-20130410-2hlvx.html

Sports scientist Stephen Dank says he never administered a single product or substance to any athlete without the prior consent of the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority or the World Anti-Doping Agency.
The Australian biochemist has worked with NRL and AFL clubs for two decades in several capacities, including high-performance consultation, technical analysis and the provision of supplement programs. Dank's tenure at Cronulla, Manly and Essendon has come under particular scrutiny, and those clubs were named in the Australian Crime Commission's report into doping and the integrity of sport.
But Dank said ASADA had approved all his products and methods, and he had never gone outside those boundaries.
''Before I've done anything in any forum, we have always had conversations with WADA or ASADA - or in some cases both,'' he said. ''From that point of view, they were always well informed of anything we were about to use. Nothing was ever used without asking them first and, in some cases, both parties were asked.
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''Not once was it indicated to me that we would have issues in terms of anything we used.''


http://www.theage.com.au/sport/dank-says-he-cleared-substances-before-use-20130408-2hhct.html


This is why I think this is going to come down to ASADA in the end. I'm going to guess (based on the above) Dank has evidence he has asked ASADA on AOD9604. They have said it is ok. WADA is now saying 'No, it shouldn't be'. If Dank has checked and has evidence to show they said it was ok, how can they charge anybody? And how is he the bad guy in this if he has followed protocol to check? While I don't completely agree with his methods, he is doing his job.


Manly was brought up again in this article indicating 2010. However, from what has been reported, Manly are clear of systematic doping already.

 

[magpie4ever]

In the eyes of the beholder actually,as I am not the only one who thinks that a generalisation is lazy or amateurish.The whold thing from the very start was handled amateurishly by authories and the Govt,and one can see why.
Ings sprouting off on Tv ,and he is not even with the mob in quesion now
Never heard of using more resources,both human and technical,to try and nip it in the bud or at least try to keep abreast of developments.Thsi inept Govt ,spends billions on an NBN,and under resources other depts.Go figure.

And you believe players are going to dob in their mates,when they have NFI whether supplements now and used then were illegal,and followed "doctors'"orders so to speak.

Of course crims try to keep ahead of the pack,it's been going on for ages.That's why new techniques and technologies are introduced and more resources put into play.

If players knew it was illegal,I have no problems with them being shafted.I want it done in a fair legal manner

Dude, you showed your true colours - a politically motivated argument against an ASADA investigation into performance enhancing drugs across all sports.

 

[unforgiven]

Sports scientist Stephen Dank says he never administered a single product or substance to any athlete without the prior consent of the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority or the World Anti-Doping Agency.
The Australian biochemist has worked with NRL and AFL clubs for two decades in several capacities, including high-performance consultation, technical analysis and the provision of supplement programs. Dank's tenure at Cronulla, Manly and Essendon has come under particular scrutiny, and those clubs were named in the Australian Crime Commission's report into doping and the integrity of sport.
But Dank said ASADA had approved all his products and methods, and he had never gone outside those boundaries.
''Before I've done anything in any forum, we have always had conversations with WADA or ASADA - or in some cases both,'' he said. ''From that point of view, they were always well informed of anything we were about to use. Nothing was ever used without asking them first and, in some cases, both parties were asked.
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''Not once was it indicated to me that we would have issues in terms of anything we used.''


http://www.theage.com.au/sport/dank-says-he-cleared-substances-before-use-20130408-2hhct.html


This is why I think this is going to come down to ASADA in the end. I'm going to guess (based on the above) Dank has evidence he has asked ASADA on AOD9604. They have said it is ok. WADA is now saying 'No, it shouldn't be'. If Dank has checked and has evidence to show they said it was ok, how can they charge anybody? And how is he the bad guy in this if he has followed protocol to check? While I don't completely agree with his methods, he is doing his job.


Manly was brought up again in this article indicating 2010. However, from what has been reported, Manly are clear of systematic doping already.

If Dank had this evidence I think this would have all been over with before now, unless he is holding it back for some reason. As soon as this evidence was produced the only outcome I could see would be ASADa backing quickly and quietly away from this investigation.

For the people claiming that ASADA and WADA are too slow at adding the drugs to the banned list, how quickly would you expect this process to take?

 

[magpie4ever]

Seems a funny double standard in all of this, by the Australian media.

16 year old Chinese swimmer is a "f**king cheat!"

But 22 year old footy player "innocent victim!"

Wrong, it is only 22 year Australian footy players who are "innocent victims"; the rest of the world are "f**king" cheats.

 

[taipan]

Looking at the title of this thread, whatever did happen with the Organised Crime component of the "Blackest Day In Australian Sport ".

It's been about Dank & footy clubs & SFA about crims.

FHS I used an analogy (crims) to show you need extra resources human and technological to keep up with the problem.
The NRL is only now spending $1m on biological passports for players.And the integrity unit has only just been introduced,when the NRL under gallop suggested it wasn't needed.
You don't get on top of problems when you are under resourced.And ASADA were under resourced we are told.

 

[unforgiven]

In the eyes of the beholder actually,as I am not the only one who thinks that a generalisation is lazy or amateurish.The whold thing from the very start was handled amateurishly by authories and the Govt,and one can see why.
Ings sprouting off on Tv ,and he is not even with the mob in quesion now
Never heard of using more resources,both human and technical,to try and nip it in the bud or at least try to keep abreast of developments.Thsi inept Govt ,spends billions on an NBN,and under resources other depts.Go figure.

And you believe players are going to dob in their mates,when they have NFI whether supplements now and used then were illegal,and followed "doctors'"orders so to speak.

Of course crims try to keep ahead of the pack,it's been going on for ages.That's why new techniques and technologies are introduced and more resources put into play.

If players knew it was illegal,I have no problems with them being shafted.I want it done in a fair legal manner

Look I don't really care about the Governments handling of the process as I'm looking at this from a sporting point of view and not political, you are obviously trying to score political points with you arguements.

I do not expect players to dob in their mates and would prefer they didn't, I would prefer to see the players quilty of the use of drugs get the full 2 years. It is an athletes responsibility for what goes into their body, no if no buts, their responsibility. To go back to your cycling example Alberto Contador had a 2 year ban for drug use that he claimed came from contaminated meat. Letting athletes off when they claim it is not their responsibility just opens us up and everybody will claim they took it inadvertently. Cadel Evans will not accept a bottle of water in a club that wasn't given to him by his most trusted people.

 

[taipan]

Dude, you showed your true colours - a politically motivated argument against an ASADA investigation into performance enhancing drugs across all sports.

If a dept that is funded by Govt of whatever political persuasion, is unable to fund it to provide the required efficiencies,then I show my true colours.I do not apologise for that point of view one iota. DUDE.

 

[magpie4ever]

For the Magpie4ever brigade...if this line (from the McKenzie and Baker article in the Age this morning) is true, then would you admit that this is evidence of political interference in the process?

Is true, that is the question.

 

[unforgiven]

If a dept that is funded by Govt of whatever political persuasion, is unable to fund it to provide the required efficiencies,then I show my true colours.I do not apologise for that point of view one iota. DUDE.

Yes but it also clearly shows your bias in this debate.

 

[taipan]

Look I don't really care about the Governments handling of the process as I'm looking at this from a sporting point of view and not political, you are obviously trying to score political points with you arguements.

I do not expect players to dob in their mates and would prefer they didn't, I would prefer to see the players quilty of the use of drugs get the full 2 years. It is an athletes responsibility for what goes into their body, no if no buts, their responsibility. To go back to your cycling example Alberto Contador had a 2 year ban for drug use that he claimed came from contaminated meat. Letting athletes off when they claim it is not their responsibility just opens us up and everybody will claim they took it inadvertently. Cadel Evans will not accept a bottle of water in a club that wasn't given to him by his most trusted people.

If I wanted to score political points I could fill this thread.

It has been publicly acknowledged that ASADA was/is under resourced.Who provides the funding to ensure efficient handling of said matters?...........fill in the blanks.
If that is a political statement then so be it.
This matter could have should have been resolved earlier if the resources had been fully available and utilised,and any guilty parties cited.

You are citing Evans and contador ,yet one suggests most trusted people were involved in the current disputation.Where do you draw the line? Have your mum present? I just don't want innocents burnt.

 

[taipan]

Yes but it also clearly shows your bias in this debate.

I can hardly blame the opposition or the Greens who are not in power.
Public debate involves a degree of bias.
Perhaps you feel the organsination was fully and abundantly resourced.

Perhaps I should blame Windsor and Oakeshott,as they hold the balance of power.

 

[magpie4ever]

If a dept that is funded by Govt of whatever political persuasion, is unable to fund it to provide the required efficiencies,then I show my true colours.I do not apologise for that point of view one iota. DUDE.

ASADA is independent statutory government-funded agency.

I believe there has been a recent increase to it's budget.

Most anti-investigation posters are against any increase; as they believe it's an arm of the government.

You could increase the budget ten-folded; they still couldn't keep up with the chemists. Therefore, to me; it is either a white list as proposed or the current black and grey lists.