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Our 5/8 Problem

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,529
let me start out by saying im a huge Abes fan - I think he is one of our best, a great clubman, and has some great ball skills. a real footballer.

having said that, I think he needs to get out of the 6 jumper ASAP.

reasons being:

1. his lateral defence just isnt good enough for 5/8.

he is a BIG guy - well over 100kgs, and has had a few leg problems also. front on, he is a great defender - but I think what we have seen the past few games is that he is very vulnerable to players with good footwork. I shudder to think what Lockyer, Tate or Hunt are going to do with him this week - I think he will be targeted.

I think he is aware of this, and tends to rush up in defence to compensate - try to shut them down before they have space. this tends to leave holes in the line - and if the player gets away from him, a cut-out is thrown, or the player manages to get an offload, a line break is the result nearly every time - particularly when he is inside Tighe, who is a woeful defender.

2. he is an awful kicker of the ball.

does any more need to be said? he has played fullback and in the forwards. he has never been asked to kick. we cant expect it of him. teams only have to shut down mullo and we have no other kicking option, save kids at the back, who is invariably kicking from behind the line and so at a distance disadvantage, and is an ordinary kicker of the ball.

3. he is too slow.

for the backs. he has lost alot of speed as he has bulked up whilst off injured. the abes of 5 yrs ago wouldnt be too slow.

finally,
4. he is too good a lock to waste at 6.

as a lock he has the entire package - great (forward) defender, ballskills, good vision, breaks tackles and big motor. as a 6 he is a square peg in a round hole - a big guy used to the middle of the park and trying to be something he is not.

13. abes
12. simmo
11. patto
10. newton
9. bedsy
8. perry/wooly/tolar

is a bloody good pack.

as far as replacements go, well im not sure.

sorry JM, I dont rate Tighe. no ticker that boy.

for mine that realistically leaves:

Kidley (let us never speak of him as 5/8 again);

Bailey (injured but possible); or

Brown.

I say "realistic" as they are the players I know relatively well - roops has mentioned Hunt (9 in PL) and I rate him, and we have Karawana (ball hog, no ticker) and Dureau (is he ready?) as well. I don't know any of those 3 well enough to definitavely say yay or nay, but must say im not impressed by Karawana at all. Hunt intrigues me - big boy, great ball skills. might be a smokey.


having said that, my pick at the moment is Brown. as a hooker he can tend to overplay his hand - however I think given the space out a bit wider, he would thrive. he has pretty good vision, can kick (short kicking game is spot on, long passable) and has a great pass on him. He is a decent defender, and is ok laterally. he was killing it at 7 in PL last year, and scored 4 (?) tries in a game late in the season.

he deserves 5-6 games to give it a shot.

Brown for 6.
 

Holla

Juniors
Messages
17
I also consider Abes doesn't suit the 5/8 role.
My take on this Halves question is this. Why are we grooming Mullen as a replacement for Joey at 7 when Jarrod is probably the best 6 in the club.
We then have Walsh a natural 7 who has played with Jarrod as his 6 for a few years.
They have been a great partnership through the lower grades.
Why break them up now??
Surely we can give them a chance to show their worth in FG in the roles that they have been playing succesfully for quite a long while now.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,529
Walsh is injured atm - and looks a long term injury.

I hope he hits the gym while he is off - because at the moment he is simply too small to play FG - especially in the front line of defence.

I agree that he has all the HB skills - but seriously, I have seen 12 year olds that are bigger than him.
 

Holla

Juniors
Messages
17
macavity said:
Walsh is injured atm - and looks a long term injury.

I hope he hits the gym while he is off - because at the moment he is simply too small to play FG - especially in the front line of defence.

I agree that he has all the HB skills - but seriously, I have seen 12 year olds that are bigger than him.

I remember the the exact same response when another number 7 hit the scene.
His name was "Alan LANGER"

Didn't know of his injury, but it matters little. When he is available and after he has got some match fitness behind him, I still say he should be given the chance to prove his worth alongside Jarrod MULLEN.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,529
thats excellent news on Walsh

touche re alf - but im yet to be convinced by Walsh on the size issue.

and it must be noted that alf survived by perfecting the 'langer trip' tackling technique...

if he has a chance at FG 7 I would be all for it - but in the short to medium term I cant see it happening.
 

Burwood

Bench
Messages
4,883
I'd rather see guys like Brown, Walsh, Dureau, Karawana etc be given a chance and fail in the challenge, rather than just sit back and watch Abraham do a consistent, yet mediocre job each week.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,359
personally i was gonna give abes a bit more of a chance to be a bit of a running 5/8th.. but all your points are valid macavity.

he looked great running angles at second receiver against souths.. but he can do that from lock too... his offloading is looking super dangerous atm.

as for who to replace him with.. well brown has never impressed me.. so i guess the only reason i've stuck up for abes in the 5/8th is because i don't have any better options really.

i suppose we could see one of the PL halves step up.. but i doubt it, more likely that brown will get a go at the job if smith isnt happy with abes there.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Hunt is the guy IMO.

He was one of our best players in Flegg in 2005. He played in several different positions - centre, 5/8, hooker, lock - and he was decent in every position without making any of them his own.
His preferred position is 5/8.
He is big enough to play lock.
He is skillful enough to play 5/8.
He is fit enough to play hooker.
He is fast enough to play centre.

He has never established himself in one position and was even the second choice hooker this year, but he is obviously a heap fitter than he was last year and would really shine at 5/8 IMO. He is tearing it up at hooker, so he might get stuck there behind at least three other guys for firstgrade, but he should be tearing it up at 5/8 and knocking on the door of firstgrade.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,529
i really REALLY hope you are right roops

then again you thought mullo would never make 1sts

LOL
 

Ben

Bench
Messages
2,551
Although I've always been a fan of Riley Brown, his last performance and most notably his passing game, just shows to me that he may not cut it as a five-eighth. A couple of his passes that he threw from dummy-half were shocking, and if he can't do this with standing still what chances does he have throwing QUALITY cut out passes on the run. And also, will this affect Mullen's game? Have the two ever played together? Unless Smith tells him to just stick to his running game, which he is quite good at btw, then i'm a no to Brown at five-eight.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
macavity said:
i really REALLY hope you are right roops

then again you thought mullo would never make 1sts

LOL
I was just pissed off at Mullen.
I went to see the first game of Ball for the season and was over the moon at the prospect of seeing Walsh and Dureau teamed up in the halves in Ball - and they put Dureau on the bench for some kid i hadn't heard of. Took me most of the season to warm to him.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,529
I dont rate Thaiday either JM

:p

on Brown, I keep waiting for him to prove all the doubters wrong..

waiting....

In my experience dummy half is the hardest position to pass from - you have to (or at least should) pass from the ground, and you are basically relying only on peripheral vision. I think Brown will be fine throwing them on the run - did you see him play 7 in PL?


do we all agree that Abes is not the answer?
 

Jono078

Referee
Messages
21,173
Abes isnt the answer.

Although I dont see many better options ATM.

Why dont we just play Dureau at halfback? he's been around long enough and seems to be quite experienced now?
 

voltron

Juniors
Messages
1,454
yeah
abes might not be the answer atm
but like Smith said about cutting players
he's just been waiting to see how people work together, and what combinations are being formed
and abe's was getting that chance
if people dont think he's the answer, but cant see any other answer
maybe its a race to see who proves themselves to fill that space first.
abe's might be the answer, but needs time to adjust to the position
play a Anasta style 5/8th, who also should be in lock, but the situation demands they be 5/8th for the moment
 
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