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Overrated Actors

Firey_Dragon

Coach
Messages
12,099
If the topic is 'overrated' actors then even the mention of names such as Pitt and Di Caprio is idiotic.

Both are superb.

As has been mentioned, What's Eating Gilbert Grape - amazing.

And Brad Pitt in Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrells is one of my favourite performances. Classic.

Pitt was never in lock, stock... He was in Snatch.

Pitt is a bit of a rocks or diamonds after for mine. Has had some brilliant roles, and there have been some that have been ordinary to say the least.

DiCaprio is probably the best blockbuster actor of this generation, anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy. Basketball Diaries is one of the best movies you'll ever see from a 21 year old lead. I don't get why he is hated, barring the heart throb titanic and romeo & juliet leads, everything he has done has been a pretty challenging piece of work, many left of center that you don't do for a cash grab. His role choices are superb, and he is never anything short of great in them. Another great movie he was in as a kid was This boys life with deniro.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,020
All actors are overrated.

A good script is roughly 1.37 million times more important than a good cast in making a movie great. No actor in the world can make a dud script good, while any good story can make even dud actors look great.

Actors are mostly just there to ensure a certain amount of box office success.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
All actors are overrated.

A good script is roughly 1.37 million times more important than a good cast in making a movie great. No actor in the world can make a dud script good, while any good story can make even dud actors look great.

Actors are mostly just there to ensure a certain amount of box office success.

Yes!!! Exactly. Agree 100% Script comes first. Example, Pirates of the Caribbean. Many praised Depp for making the film as good as it was, yet the sequels were poorly received because of the story. Depp helped created a great character but it couldn't save the film, as actors do not make or break a movie. The story and the script are the major parts.

Writers and directors should get far more credit then they do, actors should get less.

Pitt is a bit of a rocks or diamonds after for mine. Has had some brilliant roles, and there have been some that have been ordinary to say the least.

DiCaprio is probably the best blockbuster actor of this generation, anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy. Basketball Diaries is one of the best movies you'll ever see from a 21 year old lead. I don't get why he is hated, barring the heart throb titanic and romeo & juliet leads, everything he has done has been a pretty challenging piece of work, many left of center that you don't do for a cash grab. His role choices are superb, and he is never anything short of great in them. Another great movie he was in as a kid was This boys life with deniro.

That's just your personal taste. I think a lot of films Pitt has contributed to have been a lot better than Di Caprio's. Others will agree with me while others won't. It doesn't make us 'crazy'.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
If the topic is 'overrated' actors then even the mention of names such as Pitt and Di Caprio is idiotic.

Both are superb.

As has been mentioned, What's Eating Gilbert Grape - amazing.

And Brad Pitt in Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrells is one of my favourite performances. Classic.

I would like someone to explain what exactly makes a 'superb' actor. My suspicion is that you just enjoy watching them, everyone has their favourites that they think are the best or should win the awards.
The only explanation I have seen for a 'great actor' is from Cliffhanger and she said a great actor makes you care about them, empathise with them etc. Well yes but that is pretty much an actor's job description, one that little kids and first time auditioning rookies can do and have done in the past. Sharlto Copley had never acted before but I enjoyed him in District 9 very much.

For me a good actor is one that does simply what's best for the script and the movie. One that does what is asked of them by the filmmakers. Not one that tries to put on the grand performance and get themselves seen.

It's no surprise that the majority of award-winning performances come from great films that had great scripts and great directors.

If I had to nominate two 'great actors' they would be Gary Oldman and Daniel Day-Lewis. Two actors that aren't huge celebrities but very modest in their work. Although Day-Lewis can take his acting work a bit too seriously at times.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,292
I would like someone to explain what exactly makes a 'superb' actor. My suspicion is that you just enjoy watching them, everyone has their favourites that they think are the best or should win the awards.
The only explanation I have seen for a 'great actor' is from Cliffhanger and she said a great actor makes you care about them, empathise with them etc. Well yes but that is pretty much an actor's job description, one that little kids and first time auditioning rookies can do and have done in the past. Sharlto Copley had never acted before but I enjoyed him in District 9 very much.

For me a good actor is one that does simply what's best for the script and the movie. One that does what is asked of them by the filmmakers. Not one that tries to put on the grand performance and get themselves seen.

It's no surprise that the majority of award-winning performances come from great films that had great scripts and great directors.

If I had to nominate two 'great actors' they would be Gary Oldman and Daniel Day-Lewis. Two actors that aren't huge celebrities but very modest in their work. Although Day-Lewis can take his acting work a bit too seriously at times.

For me, there are two key factors: believability and emotion.

For example, Denzel Washington often deliberately stutters when he plays a guy under pressure, and does it so well it seems natural. It's a simple technique, but it really helps portray a man who is under pressure and anxious.

Emotion...Christian Bale pours his soul int his work. Watch "The Machinist", "The Fighter", "The Prestige" and "American Psycho" for a few examples - the way he uses his voice, tone and gestures to me convey the emotion required.

Another part is timing, whether it is dramatic or comedic. Sir Anthony Hopkins played the most menacing villain in history in Dr. Hannibal Lecter simply by saying his lines in certain ways.

Anyway, back on topic - I find Ryan Reynolds over-rated. He's funny, but he's not really a great actor tbh...

And I agree - Gary Oldman and Daniel Day-Lewis are brilliant.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,020
Yes!!! Exactly. Agree 100% Script comes first. Example, Pirates of the Caribbean. Many praised Depp for making the film as good as it was, yet the sequels were poorly received because of the story. Depp helped created a great character but it couldn't save the film, as actors do not make or break a movie. The story and the script are the major parts.

Writers and directors should get far more credit then they do, actors should get less.


Exactly.

All Depp did was dress like slightly more of a fruit than he usually does and do a keith richards impersonation. If the writers didn't give him funny things to say and do, it would have just looked like a stupid campy pirate.

I often wonder how pissed off writers must get when actors flippantly take credit in interviews for "creating" a character or casually bring up how they improvised most of their lines (which usually means they changed the syntax/grammar slightly).

Don't get me wrong, most of the actors listed in this thread are good at what they do, but the amount of influence they have on whether or not a movie is any good is largely overstated.... besides their influence on box office sales which can make absolutely horrendous movies extremely profitable (see Adam Sandler's entire career post-Wedding Singer)
 
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edabomb

First Grade
Messages
7,208
For me, there are two key factors: believability and emotion.

For example, Denzel Washington often deliberately stutters when he plays a guy under pressure, and does it so well it seems natural. It's a simple technique, but it really helps portray a man who is under pressure and anxious.

Emotion...Christian Bale pours his soul int his work. Watch "The Machinist", "The Fighter", "The Prestige" and "American Psycho" for a few examples - the way he uses his voice, tone and gestures to me convey the emotion required.

Another part is timing, whether it is dramatic or comedic. Sir Anthony Hopkins played the most menacing villain in history in Dr. Hannibal Lecter simply by saying his lines in certain ways.

Anyway, back on topic - I find Ryan Reynolds over-rated. He's funny, but he's not really a great actor tbh...

And I agree - Gary Oldman and Daniel Day-Lewis are brilliant.

When it comes to lighter movies I'll chuck charisma in too. You get some average actors who make a career of being in very entertaining movies because of it - Clooney comes to mind.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
Exactly.

All Depp did was dress like slightly more of a fruit than he usually does and do a keith richards impersonation. If the writers didn't give him funny things to say and do, it would have just looked like a stupid campy pirate.

I often wonder how pissed off writers must get when actors flippantly take credit in interviews for "creating" a character or casually bring up how they improvised most of their lines (which usually means they changed the syntax/grammar slightly).

Don't get me wrong, most of the actors listed in this thread are good at what they do, but the amount of influence they have on whether or not a movie is any good is largely overstated.... besides their influence on box office sales which can make absolutely horrendous movies extremely profitable (see Adam Sandler's entire career post-Wedding Singer)

Its a combination of both.

Actors can bring a lot to a character. Take the TV show Game of Thrones for example which is based upon an actual series of books which I had read previously quite a few times. Now whenever I read parts with Jaime Lannister in it Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is what I picture in my mind because he captures what Jaime Lannister is about so well.

Watch a few B Grade movies and see what poor acting is and compare it to a strong actor. Its not just about delivering the lines well. Its about forming a connection with the audience as that character. I could read Jack Sparrows funny lines back to you in a robotic voice and you would not connect to the character. Why even have actors. Just download scripts and put them through a text to voice programme.

I also think a rubbish script rubbishness can be mitigated by good acting. Take Body of Lies which I mentioned earlier. I found it at least half decent because of Crowe and DiCaprio but the script was a load of shit. Just think of any iconic acting performance. Say Di Niro in Taxi Driver. Would that really be the same film if it starred I don't know... Kevin James.

A flat performance will sink a film just as fast as poor writing or poor direction. Film is dependent on these interlocking pieces of artistic ability from different sources. Which makes it quite interesting.
 

skeepe

Immortal
Messages
48,324
A lot of these aren't probably the biggest names, but they seem to get roles far bigger than their ability suggests they should get.

Patrick Dempsey
Kristen Stewart
Ben Stiller
Christian Slater
Christina Ricci
Jessica Alba
Kristen Wiig
Chris Rock
Colin Farrell
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
For me, there are two key factors: believability and emotion.

For example, Denzel Washington often deliberately stutters when he plays a guy under pressure, and does it so well it seems natural. It's a simple technique, but it really helps portray a man who is under pressure and anxious.

Emotion...Christian Bale pours his soul int his work. Watch "The Machinist", "The Fighter", "The Prestige" and "American Psycho" for a few examples - the way he uses his voice, tone and gestures to me convey the emotion required.

Another part is timing, whether it is dramatic or comedic. Sir Anthony Hopkins played the most menacing villain in history in Dr. Hannibal Lecter simply by saying his lines in certain ways.

Anyway, back on topic - I find Ryan Reynolds over-rated. He's funny, but he's not really a great actor tbh...

And I agree - Gary Oldman and Daniel Day-Lewis are brilliant.

I agree with you but I still think that believability and emotion are two things that all film actors must have and that the vast majority do. With film especially, it is important to remember that there are many takes on one scene, with actors delivering the lines several different ways during the takes and often stuffing up. Hopkins said his lines in certain ways and did a really good job, but he would have also said those lines in different ways, with himself and the crew deciding what worked and what didn't.

And the emotion, I would call Bale pouring his soul into his work more 'commitment'. Daniel Day-Lewis would be the master at that in my opinion. However, Brando is often said to be the greatest of all and his emotion and commitment were questionable at best.

Its a combination of both.

Actors can bring a lot to a character. Take the TV show Game of Thrones for example which is based upon an actual series of books which I had read previously quite a few times. Now whenever I read parts with Jaime Lannister in it Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is what I picture in my mind because he captures what Jaime Lannister is about so well.

Watch a few B Grade movies and see what poor acting is and compare it to a strong actor. Its not just about delivering the lines well. Its about forming a connection with the audience as that character. I could read Jack Sparrows funny lines back to you in a robotic voice and you would not connect to the character. Why even have actors. Just download scripts and put them through a text to voice programme.

I also think a rubbish script rubbishness can be mitigated by good acting. Take Body of Lies which I mentioned earlier. I found it at least half decent because of Crowe and DiCaprio but the script was a load of shit. Just think of any iconic acting performance. Say Di Niro in Taxi Driver. Would that really be the same film if it starred I don't know... Kevin James.

A flat performance will sink a film just as fast as poor writing or poor direction. Film is dependent on these interlocking pieces of artistic ability from different sources. Which makes it quite interesting.

And yet actors get the overwhelming amount of praise and credit while the writers do not.

What many consider a 'flat' performance was considered good enough by the makers of that movie. A director will not tolerate a performance that he doesn't deem worthy of the script. Actors are directed in the scenes, told what to do.

B Grade films have awful scripts as well remember. Michael Caine was in quite a few yet I love watching him. Look up all the brilliant films and try and find one that has a bad script. It's no coincidence all the best performances come from the best scripts.

De Niro when he was with Scorcese was almost a co-director. It was he and Scorcese that were the driving forces behind their films, De Niro was not just an actor. They were a team and had more than a normal acting-directing relationship. You can't compare 'Kevin James' to a role. Actors are always cast first on whether or not they suit a role. It's like saying 'would Shawshank be as good if Red was played by Angelina Jolie?' The script is the basis for a good film. Scorcese had his vision of the film. He had his vision of Travis. De Niro just brought it to life, many others could have as well but since it was De Niro that's how we remember it and now we think no one else could do it as well.

I mentioned Band of Brothers earlier. Nearly all the actors were cast due to their physical resemblance to their historical counterpart, not on 'ability'. Cast by Tom Hanks interestingly. The mini series turned out to be just about the best thing ever put to film.

I can tell you the major reason why great films become great is because of the source material (script or book or true story etc) and the filmmaker's vision. Actors just add a certain spice, like icing on a cake, yet the film makers cast them and the film makers tell them what they need to do. A good actor is one that does what is best for the role and for the film, and nearly all do that. They listen to the director.
Remember, if an actor's performance is called 'flat' the director was still happy with it. That actor could have said the lines a thousand different ways yet the director was happy with the finished product.

But I do agree in some ways. In A Song of Ice and Fire I always hear the actor's voices. Although a lot of these actors were relatively unknown and not considered among the 'greats' which lends credence to my opinion that nearly all actors can bring believability and emotion to their roles. Sophie Turner never acted before but with doubtless help and direction from the crew her performance is fine.

I agree that all the parts of a film must come together to make it great, which is why it annoys me so much that actors get so much of the credit and the rest of the crew get barely any. If the acting is great, it will be 'an outstanding performance from Depp or Penn or De Niro' yet if the script is great it will be 'a good script' (unless it's by Tarantino of course).

Patrick Dempsey
Kristen Stewart
Ben Stiller
Christian Slater
Christina Ricci
Jessica Alba
Kristen Wiig
Chris Rock
Colin Farrell

What's wrong with any of these? Kristen Stewart is one I see hated on all the time, yet it's because she is involved with Twilight, a series hated by millions of people. I saw Stewart in Into the Wild, didn't know who she was, and didn't think twice. She didn't distract me from the film. Yet Twilight-haters would see her and complain about her 'poor acting', despite not even really knowing what makes a good actor, they just hate her from personal taste. It has nothing to do with 'ability', pretty much all people like certain actors because of personal taste.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
Silence of the lambs was mentioned earlier in the thread. What differs that from a standard thriller is the acting.

I think a lot of the writing in that film (and the source material itself ze book) is a bit silly.

Actors are the public face of the film. I do agree that writers are underrated. If you look at the show I have been binging through lately Senfield there is a notable drop in quality imo of the overall arcs after Larry David leaves the show at the end of Season 7. However its not like writers (especially show runners) aren't rewarded for successful shows. David Chase made more money at the end of the run of Sopranos than James Gandolfini. Larry David has taken away more money than the cast (besides Senfield himself who also wrote for the show and created it). I mean when its all said and done David will make over a billion dollars from Senfield.

A successful TV show runner makes mad coin but it is the actors who have the job to engage with the character with the public. So is it any wonder actors get all the glory from the public.
 

Firey_Dragon

Coach
Messages
12,099
That's just your personal taste. I think a lot of films Pitt has contributed to have been a lot better than Di Caprio's. Others will agree with me while others won't. It doesn't make us 'crazy'.

I'll keep that in mind next time I watch Troy, Mr & Mrs Smith and Cool World.

I didn't say Pitt was a bad actor (he's been in some amazing movies), but DiCaprio has a much more accomplished body of work. And yes I will call you 'crazy' if you cannot recognise that. It's not about what style is my personal taste, it's a about the difficult roles that have been portrayed over a body of work. Pitt has a much narrower scope in the roles he takes and has some absolute stinkers on his resume. I enjoy most of Pitt's movies but at the end of the day, he's quite limited in his range for the mostpart.
 

carcharias

Immortal
Messages
43,120
I'll keep that in mind next time I watch Troy, Mr & Mrs Smith and Cool World.

I didn't say Pitt was a bad actor (he's been in some amazing movies), but DiCaprio has a much more accomplished body of work. And yes I will call you 'crazy' if you cannot recognise that. It's not about what style is my personal taste, it's a about the difficult roles that have been portrayed over a body of work. Pitt has a much narrower scope in the roles he takes and has some absolute stinkers on his resume. I enjoy most of Pitt's movies but at the end of the day, he's quite limited in his range for the mostpart.

both appeard in growing pains.

pitt as carols boyfriend
di caprio as a street kid mike takes under his wing

....and yes the fonze had well and truely jumped the shark by then.
 

gUt

Coach
Messages
16,935
If the topic is 'overrated' actors then even the mention of names such as Pitt and Di Caprio is idiotic.

Both are superb.

As has been mentioned, What's Eating Gilbert Grape - amazing.

And Brad Pitt in Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrells is one of my favourite performances. Classic.

Snatch, I believe.

EDIT: already corrected sorry. But I agree he was very good in this.
 
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