Penrith v parradontmatter

[Kilkenny]

Staines 30m pass at speed in the Sharks game. Crichton set Mansour up with some soft hands a few times and the players all say he's a freak talent at training with slick skills.

Ball playing skills are something players with such skills demonstrate on a regular basis over many games or seasons. A good pass here or there is not really evidence a player has good ball playing skills. Honestly I haven’t seen anything to suggest either Staines or Crichton offer a skill set in excess of what Dylan Edwards offers. Perhaps they may be faster, more elusive or have other attributes greater than Dylan but ball playing I just don’t see it.

 

[betcats]

Staines has a very good passing and electric speed and critta has freakish talent and athletic ability, if they can do the defensive side of things well then I think they could both bring a lot to our attack as fullbacks, especially in 12 months.

 

[betcats]

Ball playing skills are something players with such skills demonstrate on a regular basis over many games or seasons. A good pass here or there is not really evidence a player has good ball playing skills. Honestly I haven’t seen anything to suggest either Staines or Crichton offer a skill set in excess of what Dylan Edwards offers. Perhaps they may be faster, more elusive or have other attributes greater than Dylan but ball playing I just don’t see it.

Staines definitely does, I’ve seen plenty of him and the kid can pass.

 

[BxTom]

By now Edwards should be a solid, safe fullback. I feel at times he lacks confidence it takes to be a complete fullback, and I simply hold my breath when he goes up for the ball.

Critta to FB, then you have a tall bloke at the back safely diffusing those bombs.

If you look at the replay you will see number 14 for Penrith right in the way. Edwards had to take the ball on that players left shoulder.

 

[franklin2323]

We can fill a hole at centre easily right now if we had to with Naden or Burton or potentially salmon if we were desperate. In another year you’ll have Turuva and May looking for a spot in the backline, moving critta or Staines in 2022 or 2023 is not going to be a problem at all if one of them looks good enough to play fb.

To me it’s not just about Edwards playing ability, I think he’s a very good fullback though I do think that lack of a good passing game is an issue, it’s a combination that lack of passing and of his contract timing and our salary cap and the talent we have that will be looking to get in the side in 12 months as well as having two current outside backs who could be good fullbacks.

He could of had 2 try assists tonight though.

The Staines pass was forward
Not sure the one from Cleary to him was though.

On to last year. Despite playing less games had more try assists than Nichol-Klostad and RTS.

Only RTS and Tedesco averaged more metres per game.

Was only behind Tedesco in ave tackle busts per game

Error rate was low compared to the others too.

Compare that too 2019 and he is trending the right way

 

[franklin2323]

I think most would desire the ball playing fullback because most premiership winning teams over the last 10 years or so have had a fullback with this ability.

Yeah but more teams lose with them too. Positioning etc is more important

 

[Kilkenny]

I think most would desire the ball playing fullback because most premiership winning teams over the last 10 years or so have had a fullback with this ability.

Billy Slater had ball playing skills.

The others main full backs of GF winning sides in recent times have just been great athletes, fast, elusive, powerful ball runners such Tedesco, Inglis, Brett Stewart and Ben Barba. Our own Lachlan Coote won a premiership and was a solid if unspectacular fullback. The whole ball playing thing, around full backs is largely a myth.

 

[franklin2323]

Im all for Dylan Edwards. I have no doubt he is our best fullback option.

There seems to be an obsession with the whole ball playing aspect which apparently Dylan Edwards lacks.

There are suggestions if Dylan doesn’t perform then we may have other options, which we probably do, but none of the three have ball playing skills.

I haven’t seen any evidence the alternatives to Dylan in Crichton, Staines or Turuva have ball playing skills.

I made comments on the spine in last weeks game. That includes Turuva and the lack of ball skills.

Crichton isn't very quick so you don't gain that even. He can kick but not the best passer. He does break the line as well but where does his positioning sit etc..

Staines is yet to finish an NRL game. Brings speed is a natural fullback but is yet to prove as a FG yet

So we are far from that discussion yet

 

[betcats]

Billy Slater had ball playing skills.

The others main full backs of GF winning sides in recent times have just been great athletes, fast, elusive, powerful ball runners such Tedesco, Inglis, Brett Stewart and Ben Barba. Our own Lachlan Coote won a premiership and was a solid if unspectacular fullback. The whole ball playing thing, around full backs is largely a myth.

Everyone you just named had or has a very good passing game, better than Edwards for sure. Ben barba was a genuine ball player as was Coote. Inglis, tedesco and stewart may not be genuine ball players but they could make the passes that we want Dylan to make for sure. It’s not a myth at all.

 

[Kilkenny]

Staines definitely does, I’ve seen plenty of him and the kid can pass.

Being able to pass and ball playing are two entirely different beasts.

 

[betcats]

Being able to pass and ball playing are two entirely different beasts.

We don’t need Dylan to be a genuine ball player. We just need him to be able to consistently hit the winger with a one man cut out pass at speed passing left to right. He hasn’t shown he can do that consistently yet. From what I have seen of Staines he has much better all round skill than Dylan including throwing long passes at speed.

 

[panthersam]

Billy Slater had ball playing skills.

The others main full backs of GF winning sides in recent times have just been great athletes, fast, elusive, powerful ball runners such Tedesco, Inglis, Brett Stewart and Ben Barba. Our own Lachlan Coote won a premiership and was a solid if unspectacular fullback. The whole ball playing thing, around full backs is largely a myth.

Everyone you just named had or has a very good passing game, better than Edwards for sure. Ben barba was a genuine ball player as was Coote. Inglis, tedesco and stewart may not be genuine ball players but they could make the passes that we want Dylan to make for sure. It’s not a myth at all.

Yeah sorry Kilkenny mate can’t really agree with you on that one, Betcats pretty much covered it so just quoted his post as my response lol

 

[Kilkenny]

Yeah sorry Kilkenny mate can’t really agree with you on that one, Betcats pretty much covered it so just quoted his post as my response lol

LOL. Really. Mate, I don’t give a rats arse whether you agree.

You both want to move the goal posts so suit your narrative.

According to you, the GF winning sides of the last ten years all had ball playing fullbacks, well in fact no they didn’t. They had great ball runners, athletes, speed stars with the exception of Billy who was capable of playing in the line and creating opportunities.

Ball playing and being a good passer are not the same. LOL. So sorry mate can’t agree with you on that one.

 

[betcats]

We just need Edwards to be hit the pass on set plays more because last season we created plenty of overlaps down that side but we just couldn’t convert on them consistently. We were switching Edwards and May on those set plays when we could by the end of the year, I think it’s a big part of why May got the start in the gf tbh.

Maybe edwards can improve his passing enough but he’s never going to be ball player, that’s what made slater so remarkable, he didn’t just improve his passing game he started as a running fullback and then just added genuine ball playing ability to his game years into his career.

 

[betcats]

LOL. Really. Mate, I don’t give a rats arse whether you agree.

You both want to move the goal posts so suit your narrative.

According to you, the GF winning sides of the last ten years all had ball playing fullbacks, well in fact no they didn’t. They had great ball runners, athletes, speed stars with the exception of Billy who was capable of playing in the line and creating opportunities.

Ball playing and being a good passer are not the same. LOL. So sorry mate can’t agree with you on that one.

Barba wasn’t a ball player? Or coote? Bullshit Kilkenny. The fullback position changing to play like another five eight is no myth mate, it’s been well noted by everyone, fans, media, coaches. Good fullbacks need to be able to pass. Our own coach has spoken about our full back playing as the five eighth on the right side of our attack. He was even switching May there on set play s to get a better passer there.

 

[panthersam]

LOL. Really. Mate, I don’t give a rats arse whether you agree.

You both want to move the goal posts so suit your narrative.

According to you, the GF winning sides of the last ten years all had ball playing fullbacks, well in fact no they didn’t. They had great ball runners, athletes, speed stars with the exception of Billy who was capable of playing in the line and creating opportunities.

Ball playing and being a good passer are not the same. LOL. So sorry mate can’t agree with you on that one.

Damn buddy I wasn’t trying to offend or upset you, just saying I didn’t agree ‍

Responses like these make me think I’ll just go back to spectating these forums lol

 

[Original Name]

Yes but hard work can only get you as far as your talent will let you go still. Slater was obviously a freakishly talented athlete which would have made it easier to pick up once the hard work was put in. Everybody would be on the same level if they just had to work hard to get to it.

There's a reason why when most people get to the Storm they say it's a different level of training. And that high standard of training was lead by guys like Slater setting the standard. Not all players work equally hard. Not all players have a good system to support and direct them. Slater had natural talent things like speed agility, footwork etc but passing is a skill like any other skill it isn't some mythical ability that can only be achieved by a chosen few. It's a skill that can be improved by anyone with enough proper training.

Cronk has said Slater couldn't pass reliably any more than a metre either side of him when he was young. That doesn't indicate some hidden natural talent for it to me.

Papenhauzen (a gf winning fullback) has shown no real ball playing ability, much less than Edwards has at the moment but eventually he will inevitably get there because he's a long term player at the Storm. He'll keep and working until he gets better, season after season, year after year, toiling away. He'll keep building on his game. That's just what they do at the Storm.

 

[Kilkenny]

Damn buddy I wasn’t trying to offend or upset you, just saying I didn’t agree ‍

Responses like these make me think I’ll just go back to spectating these forums lol

What starts out as just banter and rather innocuous differences of opinion end up turning to shift. I don’t get it either mate.

 

[Kilkenny]

Barba wasn’t a ball player? Or coote? Bullshit Kilkenny. The fullback position changing to play like another five eight is no myth mate, it’s been well noted by everyone, fans, media, coaches. Good fullbacks need to be able to pass. Our own coach has spoken about our full back playing as the five eighth on the right side of our attack. He was even switching May there on set play s to get a better passer there.

I made rather simple observations around our own Dylan Edwards, defending him for the most part.

I also suggested ball playing and passing ability are not necessarily one and the same.

The games elite full backs in Tedesco, RTS, Tommy T, Latrell Mitchell are predominantly explosive athletes and those on the rung below including our own Dylan are largely of the same skill set just not at the same level.

I don’t see to many of the current fullbacks creating opportunities for others as play makers there strengths evolve from an entirely different skill set, power and pace to name a few. Being able to make a pass is a desirable attribute, it let us down a few times this evening, the final pass.

 

[Original Name]

On a positive note Leota did like 2 nice passes and for a lot of the rest of his runs looked like he might pass before taking the line on. That's good, the threat of passing opens up more space for your running game. That's why Klemmer is always running at brick walls whereas other middle forwards can find half gaps. Of course Yeo and Fish already do some ball playing so he should primarily keep look like he might pass but run it. We can't have forwards passing too much otherwise we'll play too sideways. But with that said I'd like to see either Yeo or JFH hit Kikau running a line a bit more, that middle forward ball playing to a forward hitting a line is hard to defend against.

Never really seen Moses ball play in his entire career before this. It's good the forwards are working on expanding their game a bit and doing this skill work stuff. On the subject that set play against the Raiders last year with JFH fading away and Kikau running in is an absolutely gun set play. A bit more of that and variations of it please. Kikau drawing attention as the decoy and fading left and Jarome coming in to hit that line off Cleary maybe?