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Police harassed me: El Masri

TITAN1

Juniors
Messages
1,415

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,816
Indeed, and obviously Hasem looked like he just robbed some joint.

It is OK TITAN1 perhaps one day you will be accused of something you did not do, and then be charged because you showed your ID and that is all they have.

I would suggest you ask why first.
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,816
TITAN1 said:
My position is i would feel secure and safe,knowing the police are doing their job,and i would not feel panicked because im not doing anything wrong.
And my position is, show me your ID for all I know it is a fake uniform, then what is the charge you are asking me to show ID for, then I would refuse.

Once at the police station I would be free.
 

TITAN1

Juniors
Messages
1,415
So you would swap 2-3 minutes of inconvenience for 30-60 mins of inconvenience?
Is life that boring?
:)
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,487
lol. Howard's Australia. Such a legacy.
CharlieF said:
Gunnamatta, check the laws out before going on about rights.
Actually, I think you're the one who needs to read up.

CharlieF said:
Cops have the right to ask for ID. You have the right to refuse. The only reason you would refuse is:

A. You are guilty.
Not neccesarily.
CharlieF said:
B. You are deluded into think it will serve your cause.
How is that a legal argument?
CharlieF said:
C. You believe that your d*ck is bigger than his.
And that would stand up in court?

When did you decide to start undermining your own argument?
CharlieF said:
He broke the law by refusing to show ID.
Nonsense.
Australian citizens are not obliged to carry ID.
Check your constitution.... preferably after a hearty breakfast.
CharlieF said:
I always thought that an "Offence" is the same as breaking the law.

It is an offence to not show your ID when requested by police.
Wrong again.

Citizens are not obliged to carry ID. Which Facist regime did you emanate from?
CharlieF said:
The law also states it is an offence to not produce ID after it has been asked for by police after satisfying the circumstances for the request.
More nonsense.
You really would have settled in well as a brown shirt.
Citizens are not obliged to produce ID. What of those many people who don't carry ID?
Work it out.
gunnamatta bay said:
Please provide the nsw act of parliament and section which makes it an offence not to provide police with your identification.

Well CharlieF?
CharlieF said:
I provided the link to the legislation. It say you need to produce ID if requested. You don't put that in if it is not enforcable.
Pathetic effort. It didn't prove your claims at all.

You've been ripped to shreds here.

Where did people get onto the notion that it was 'commonsense' to forget your basic rights?

Show a bit of respect for your rights and the authorities will follow suit. There's nothing militant about that...or at least there shouldn't be.
 

McCrud

Juniors
Messages
1,131
Ant said:
Listening to the police on radio today, I would have to say total storm in a tea cup and if it was say andrew ryan and his mates we would have heard nothing of it.

The details I heard today, were not that El mazri was sitting in cafe at 10.30pm, they were sitting on a bench outside closed shops at 11.15pm. Now we all have no doubt they had probably been there for coffee and were just continuing their chat after the places had closed, totally innocent.

But for mine any cop would be likely to stop and have a chat to a group of males hanging out late at night outside closed businesses. And yes they could have asked for ID. The whole process of asking for ID is simply a warning shot, saying we know who you are, we know you where here at this time, but if you are not causing trouble its not an issue.

I know when I was younger hanging out late at night having a chat with some mates in a park, or by the beach we often had police do that, and we just made small chat showed the ID and they went on their way. Putting up a fuss I'm afraid is just paranoia, and another reason why being a cop is such a difficult job. The cops are probably just going, " god we are just trying to do our job, why do you need to make an issue of such a small thing". The automatic response to any sort of negative situation is likely to cause back up to be called.

The role of police is to protect the community and you are in a situation that looks suspicious then I would expect the police, to say what are you up to.

I am afraid that there are many different groups who are more likely to be approached by police, its not just lebanese males. Groups of younger males in general are likely to be approached, why simply because there is there is a higher crime rate by people in that demographic than others.

I agree with others its playing the race card for no reason. I'm sure El Mazri was not doing anything wrong, but he wouldn't look to enhance relations between police and young lebanese males by simply co-operating and having chat I don't know.

If there was a robbery at those shops the next day and you spoke to the local cops and said what did you see, and they said "oh we saw a bunch of young blokes sitting out front about 11.15pm, it was pretty dark, but from a distance looks like they were just having a chat, so we kept going", how would the business owners react.

Being a cop is a tough job, they just deal with crap all day, so not suprisingly they may be grumpy from time to time. But if more people just did the right thing and were friendly towards them the world would be better.

By El Masri refsuing to show ID, all he did was prompt a normal rection and waste tax payers money.

Storm and tea cup here I'm afraid.
Very well said Ant.

IMO it appears the police were acting in a perfectly reasonable manner. Considering the time of night and the location at which the 'incident' took place, it is safe to assume that the police were merely asking both persons for ID for future reference (i.e in the event of a break in at a nearby shop or if an assault had taken place in the area).

El Masri's attitude is very inconsiderate of other people because he obviously fails to realise that there are shopkeepers and business owners who rely upon police patrols to keep their places of business free from vandalism and robbery during 'after-hours'. If you or your family or friends operate a business with a 'shop-front' you can understand such fears and concerns.

Further to this the safety of the citizenry is also a paramount issue, and the ability of the police to catch criminals and street thugs is greatly enhanced when they have information that can either rule-in or rule-out a possible suspect. So for the police to ask a person for ID usually involves greater concerns then simply trying to 'hassle some Lebo's'...

Unfortunately there are some people in society (even here on this forum) who feel the need to antagonise the police when it comes to trivial matters such as this. This kind of attention-seeker typically has taken the always popular "NWA - f**k tha police" approach to dealing with authority, and usually cannot let interactions with authority figures subside without displaying a little 'civil rights' bravado...

The question you have to ask the people who decide to do thier best Terry O'Gorman impression is - has it ever worked? No. Never. Ever.

But I suspect the people who act in this manner already know what the outcome will be, because they are the type of weirdo who thinks they are "beating the man" by delaying the inevitable by about 10 minutes. Meanwhile the time and effort of the police is wasted whilst other more pressing law and order concerns go unattended.

The real question that needs to be asked in relation to this issue is: Did the actions of these two timewasters lead to a delayed police response in regard to other criminal incidents that occured in that same night?

Let's hope the police reaction to these morons did not lead to another person being needlessly assaulted or victimised because of the corresponding inadequate police presence elsewhere.
 

RenoufPhan

Juniors
Messages
250
I want to preface this post by stating I haven't read all of the posts in this thread because by the time I logged on it was already 20+ pages long. And if what i post has already been covered, then my apologies. I also want to point out that I don't really post much on these forums anymore. I usually check them out for the latest news from around the league because its the best place to read about news from every club.



With that said, the reason El Masri was out late at night is because he had been at the Dymocks in Liverpool signing copies of his book for a number of fans who turned up to see him. As anyone living in Sydney will know, Thursday is late night shopping night and the signing did not start until after 6pm.

I know this because my parents own Liverpool Dymocks and by their accounts El Masri was an absolute gentlemen to everyone that walked through the door, and one of the nicest blokes they'd ever met. He was very down to earth and approachable and personalised a copy for everyone who showed up (most of whom were young children keen to meet Hazem). I should also note that he showed up earlier than expected but still stayed until the agreed upon time. And he was more than willing to pose for photos for everyone involved. He was an excellent ambassador for the game and it's unfortunate that every media outlet who is reporting the incident has failed to do the necessary research to explain why Hazem and his manager were out late at night on a Thursday.


This is not to further the debate about whether the police were out of line or not. I just wanted rugby league fans to know the full story because I believe a lot of people are quick to judge Hazem. Most of whom have never met him but simply don't like him because he plays for the Buldogs (this coming from a Broncos fan who was not a big fan of Hazem until I heard first hand reports of what kind of guy he is).


.
 
Messages
21,880
CharlieF said:
I know that. That is what I have been saying. Glad you agree.

](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

if you cant see the difference between detaining someone because they are a suspect and they dont have ID and it being illegal not providing ID when asked you have massive problems.

Let me make this simple,

if the police ask you for ID ( lets assume they have a decent reason) and you refuse to show it to them , they wont charge you for not showing ID.

they may charge you for the crime they suspect you of , but they wont charge you for failing to produce ID.

do you know why? because it is not a legal requirment that we carry id in this country , therefore it can not be a crime for failing to produce ID.


 
Messages
21,880
Holla if ya hear me said:
dont want the police to know where they live?..isnt that suspicious enuff?

believe it or not there are rouges amongst the police force. Adam Houda could testify to that , he was awarded 150K for wrongful arrest and false imprisoment , no wonder he is protective of his rights.

the point here is simple , if we start giving up even small rights , we will lose more and more and the government will gain more and more power in our lives.

If i had been sitting on a bench at 11pm at night and had done nothing wrong i would have refused to show ID too , however something tells me a white guy like me sitting on a bench would probably not attract too much attention from police.
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
Mr Angry said:
Yes, I apologise to Saab, I thought he was a Qlder, going for the Broncos and Qld. I did not realise he just had zero loyality, perhaps he will go for NZ next year.
Fortunetly there are those who fight for our rights.
Unfortunetly there are those who would give them up without thinking twice about it.
But hey they do not have to worry, people with real minds will think for them, they have the government after all, to think for them.

Yes, i will go for the Kiwis next yr, just for you....and you get into politcs to protect us all from the nasty police officers who ask for ID.
 

CharlieF

Juniors
Messages
1,440
herbert henry1908 said:
](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

if you cant see the difference between detaining someone because they are a suspect and they dont have ID and it being illegal not providing ID when asked you have massive problems.

Let me make this simple,

if the police ask you for ID ( lets assume they have a decent reason) and you refuse to show it to them , they wont charge you for not showing ID.

they may charge you for the crime they suspect you of , but they wont charge you for failing to produce ID.

do you know why? because it is not a legal requirment that we carry id in this country , therefore it can not be a crime for failing to produce ID.

I know you don't need ID. But police can still demand it when required. It will just hold you up longer until they identify you.

here is a link to to a document entitled "Dealing with police".

It is an idiots guide to the laws.

http://www.noffs.org.au/programs/pdf/Documents_8529604_1.PDF
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
Mr Angry said:
Ok, I refrain, what is your position on being asked for ID because you are sitting on a bench?

FTR I support the police, when they are doing thier job correctly.

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=157221

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=150905

When they do not, I fight.
See...thats where youre wrong.
The cops were doing their job, recent B&E's & vandalism in the area, three young males on the street near a railway station at 11.15 at nite...my position is i'd realise they were...
Mr Angry said:
doing their job
 

Cammo

Bench
Messages
2,539
Zorba made a good point on 2KY this morning in that he believes some police just want to get high profile people.

He was telling how he had a case at Manly where someone over heard the policeman who was investigating an alleged incident state "I want to get him cause I hate Manly".

While I believe most police are genuine and just doing their job, there are some who are out to make a name for themselves no matter who they harrass to do so.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,487
CharlieF said:
I know you don't need ID. But police can still demand it when required. It will just hold you up longer until they identify you.
So presumably this means you are retracting your earlier comments?

Such as:

"He broke the law by refusing to show ID."
 

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