Police harassed me: El Masri

[brooksy19]

I think you're confused, youre are on the civil libertarians side. LOL

I hear whta you're saying, but generally I disagree with the hippies. Not in the case of having to show ID in a Cafe, for no particular reason.

 

[Willow]

IMO Hazem should just accept that the Police are an authority and he is not exempt from the law.

El Masri wasn't in breach of the law. You don't have to show your ID in this country... not yet anyway.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

Do you have a theory on the racial bit too?

The police are going to have to explain why they saw fit to ask El Masri and his manager for identification. Were they convinced they 'had their man'? If so why didn't they simply arrest them?

I'm pretty sure you will find they were young and inexperienced but this gives them no right to stereotype.

 

[innsaneink]

I hear whta you're saying, but generally I disagree with the hippies. Not in the case of having to show ID in a Cafe, for no particular reason.

But why?

I understand cops overstep the mark at times, but really, if you got nothing to worry aboiut whats the problem with showing ID?
You think theyve got no reason but they probably did have one.....keeping their cards close to their chest is cop behaviour, it helps them in their job.
I've thought the only people that DO have a problem with it are those that dont wanna be identified.

 

[Mr Angry]

Fuggen fascist caarrnnts are just everywhere today.

Would have been a seen with me too, I would have asked for thiers and then still refused until they wanted to charge me with something.

People so willing to give up basic freedom sicken me.

Fascist caaaarrrnnntssss, nazi wannabes.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

IMO Hazem should just accept that the Police are an authority and he is not exempt from the law. Police are trying to do their job and although he is a footballer he needs to cooperate just like every other person instead of whining that "it was racially motivated". Calling for backup though was a bit over the top!

They should know the limits of their powers then. They have no right to stop people and demand their identification (there are some exceptions such as driving a motor vehicle on a public street). Simple as that.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

But why?

I understand cops overstep the mark at times, but really, if you got nothing to worry aboiut whats the problem with showing ID?
You think theyve got no reason but they probably did have one.....keeping their cards close to their chest is cop behaviour, it helps them in their job.
I've thought the only people that DO have a problem with it are those that dont wanna be identified.

El Masri maintains he was going about his lawful right to go to a cafe and have a coffee with his manager. Do you think it right some cop just walks up to them and demands to see id?

The cops would have been told at the academy how far they can go. They are the ones at fault here if El Masri's version is correct.

 

[innsaneink]

El Masri maintains he was going about his lawful right to go to a cafe and have a coffee with his manager. Do you think it right some cop just walks up to them and demands to see id?

The cops would have been told at the academy how far they can go. They are the ones at fault here if El Masri's version is correct.

I suppose "demanding ID' probably isnt right, but is that waht happened, or were they"asked for ID"?

Yes, its their right to refuse, but that mght be seen as suss by the cops and thus the back up....and thus the harrasment claim.
Stil a lot of jumping the gun, and youre yet to address the racial issue.

 

[kia ora storm]

What is it you don't understand about living in a country where you have rights? Good on them for sticking up for themselves and not bowing to a couple of over officious police.

Just what 'job' were the cops performing? What motivated them to approach these men and demand their id?

We will never know the reason and the cops do not have to give it...if everyone took the approach you had then we would have a lawless society !!...:?

 

[gunnamatta bay]

I suppose "demanding ID' probably isnt right, but is that waht happened, or were they"asked for ID"?

Yes, its their right to refuse, but that mght be seen as suss by the cops and thus the back up....and thus the harrasment claim.
.

Bad luck. If have no evidence these men did anything then they should move on.

and youre yet to address the racial issue.

See post 83. The police will have to justify singling these men out. The issue of producing ID without lawful justification is my main concern. All to often police bluff young people into providing their name and address for no lawful reason.

The cops have a vast intelligence system and a lot of people would be surprised to see their names on it.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

We will never know the reason and the cops do not have to give it...

The police are always going to be accountable for their actions. Do you have a problem with that?

...if everyone took the approach you had then we would have a lawless society !!...:?

Crap. The police have stringent rules to abide by. Citizens have rights. How does that constitute a 'lawless society' ?

 

[ByRd]

El Masri and any other citizen in this country has rights and you know we are allowed to stand up for them. If the police gave Hazem a proper reason he would of produced the ID and bang, its all over but they are saying that no legitimate reason was given so why should they show it for sitting in a cafe, i honestly just dont understand. I wouldnt show my ID to a cop if they didnt provide a reason for wanting me to, simple as that, proper reason and ID will be shown, not just for the sake of showing it, we have rights, i think some people just dont like standing up for them and get imtimidated by police and feel that they must do it. I applaud Hazem for what he did as he is a man with great respect and wouldnt cause all this for nothing.

And people saying that he should of just shown it and its simple as that, not really. What about how low it makes you feel when your asked for no reason to show it especially when your at a cafe having a coffee with your manager. El Masri didnt want to be in a position where he felt like a 2nd rate human being and as we ALL have rights, we can stand up for them.

 

[innsaneink]

Bad luck. If have no evidence these men did anything then they should move on.



See post 83. The police will have to justify singling these men out. The issue of producing ID without lawful justification is my main concern. All to often police bluff young people into providing their name and address for no lawful reason.

The cops have a vast intelligence system and a lot of people would be surprised to see their names on it.

I think they did move on, straight to the media.

Post 83 doesnt adress the rascial aspectat all. I dont think the police have to justify anything, i think Houda and el masri have to justify why it was racial, they havent.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

El Masri and any other citizen in this country has rights and you know we are allowed to stand up for them. If the police gave Hazem a proper reason he would of produced the ID and bang, its all over but they are saying that no legitimate reason was given so why should they show it for sitting in a cafe, i honestly just dont understand. I wouldnt show my ID to a cop if they didnt provide a reason for wanting me to, simple as that, proper reason and ID will be shown, not just for the sake of showing it, we have rights, i think some people just dont like standing up for them and get imtimidated by police and feel that they must do it. I applaud Hazem for what he did as he is a man with great respect and wouldnt cause all this for nothing.

And people saying that he should of just shown it and its simple as that, not really. What about how low it makes you feel when your asked for no reason to show it especially when your at a cafe having a coffee with your manager. El Masri didnt want to be in a position where he felt like a 2nd rate human being and as we ALL have rights, we can stand up for them.

Here here. Don't feel intimidated if you have done nothing wrong.

 

[Mr Angry]

We will never know the reason and the cops do not have to give it...if everyone took the approach you had then we would have a lawless society !!...:?

FFS sake we fought wars not to live a police state.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

I think they did move on, straight to the media.

Post 83 doesnt adress the rascial aspectat all. I dont think the police have to justify anything, i think Houda and el masri have to justify why it was racial, they havent.

Yes it does. The police are the ones who are going have to justify their actions. Why should two citizens going about their lawful business have to do the explaining when they did nothing wrong?

As I stated my main concern is the demand placed on them to identify themselves without any apparent just reason. If the police singled them out because they are middle eastern then they shouldn't be in the police force.

 

[innsaneink]

Yes it does. The police are the ones who are going have to justify their actions. Why should two citizens going about their lawful business have to do the explaining when they did nothing wrong?

As I stated my main concern is the demand placed on them to identify themselves without any apparent just reason. If the police singled them out because they are middle eastern then they shouldn't be in the police force.

Why?

Because THEY are claiming its racial. They havent said WHY.

 

[gunnamatta bay]

Why?

Because THEY are claiming its racial. They havent said WHY.

I heard they intend making an official complaint. I am not even sure they are going to allege they were racially vilified. The investigator will be a senior cop over sighted by his boss and eventually the ombudsman. Who knows it may even end up in the anti discrimination tribunal. You are asking me 'why' they felt they are the victims of racial discrimination. I don't know, I could guess, but there are highly paid people employed to ascertain if that is indeed the case.

As previously stated my main concern is the police stopping these men going about their lawful business and demanding to see their identification without any justification and what transpired after.

 

[perverse]

Yes it does. The police are the ones who are going have to justify their actions. Why should two citizens going about their lawful business have to do the explaining when they did nothing wrong?

As I stated my main concern is the demand placed on them to identify themselves without any apparent just reason. If the police singled them out because they are middle eastern then they shouldn't be in the police force.

i can't believe this thread.. honestly.. shocking.

as i've said - i'm a white male australian and have been asked to provide ID minding my own business plenty of times. are you people stupid? do you think everyone that commits a crime stamps *CRIMINAL* on their head as to make it nice and easy for the cops to identify them? lol.. hardly.. they either hide, or blend in. enter the policemans job - to find the criminals. anyone who committed a crime of just about any nature could appear to be going about their lawful business moments after the crime is committed. strike 1 hazem.

this has nothing to do with living in a police state or a violation of rights. if any reasonable suspicion (be it an eyewitness report of a crime or whatever) of being involved in a crime in any way - be it a witness, a perpatrator or accomplice, the police have full right to ask for your ID. if you refuse then you can be detained until your identity is determined and your name is cleared. strike 2.

there is sticking up for your rights for a purpose - and there is abusing your rights for the sake of being politically correct. hazem isn't even politically correct on this issue from what is in that article, and we don't even have both sides of the story yet. strike 3, you're out.

wow hazem, you sure stuck it to the man didn't you? don't be such a whinger, show them your ID.. and have another sip of coffee.. simple as that. as i said, it's happened plenty of times to me.. and denying to show your ID to an officer only arouses suspicion. if he didn't have his ID on him, and he was suspected to be involved in a crime, then the police would be within their rights to detain him until his identity is determined.

yes, we all have rights... but why exercise them just for the sake of it? especially in a situation where you don't even know with any degree of certainty if you truly do have the right to? sorry.. but even if the cops had no probable cause or any reasonable suspicion to ask for the ID.. it is also within your rights to not cause a fuss and give them the ID. i'm sorry but your rights are there for a reason, and obstructing the law for your own need to feel self righteous isn't one of them.

what better way to get your name back in the papers though? publicity publicity publicity.

 

[innsaneink]

i can't believe this thread.. honestly.. shocking.

as i've said - i'm a white male australian and have been asked to provide ID minding my own business plenty of times. are you people stupid? do you think everyone that commits a crime stamps *CRIMINAL* on their head as to make it nice and easy for the cops to identify them? lol.. hardly.. they either hide, or blend in. enter the policemans job - to find the criminals. anyone who committed a crime of just about any nature could appear to be going about their lawful business moments after the crime is committed. strike 1 hazem.

this has nothing to do with living in a police state or a violation of rights. if any reasonable suspicion (be it an eyewitness report of a crime or whatever) of being involved in a crime in any way - be it a witness, a perpatrator or accomplice, the police have full right to ask for your ID. if you refuse then you can be detained until your identity is determined and your name is cleared. strike 2.

there is sticking up for your rights for a purpose - and there is abusing your rights for the sake of being politically correct. hazem isn't even politically correct on this issue from what is in that article, and we don't even have both sides of the story yet. strike 3, you're out.

wow hazem, you sure stuck it to the man didn't you? don't be such a whinger, show them your ID.. and have another sip of coffee.. simple as that. as i said, it's happened plenty of times to me.. and denying to show your ID to an officer only arouses suspicion. if he didn't have his ID on him, and he was suspected to be involved in a crime, then the police would be within their rights to detain him until his identity is determined.

yes, we all have rights... but why exercise them just for the sake of it? especially in a situation where you don't even know with any degree of certainty if you truly do have the right to? sorry.. but even if the cops had no probable cause or any reasonable suspicion to ask for the ID.. it is also within your rights to not cause a fuss and give them the ID. i'm sorry but your rights are there for a reason, and obstructing the law for your own need to feel self righteous isn't one of them.

what better way to get your name back in the papers though? publicity publicity publicity.

Because victims just love to be victimised.