Question on Peter V'landys

[LeagueXIII]

the big problem was the late adding of an extra level, it wasn’t in the business plan and sent the club into a financial spin that news ltd took advantage of. I heard the board were split 50-50 on letti g news ltd take over and the game here was torn apart and has still not recovered. We went from 10,000 players to less than 1500 in a few years! Back up to around 3500 but a long way to claw back the ground lost, Travel back in mid 90’s was ridiculously expensive compared to today and that extra 20 odd players every week was a killer.

I dare say the writing was on the wall as the Reds Rams and Mariners were disbanded and players relocated to become the Melbourne Storm.
Steve Mascord is writing a book which is nearly finished with plenty of details of this time, he even interviewed Rupert, so we should know what happened when that is released.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Where's the 39k from 2018? Even split over 2 games that doesn't really support your theory. Why does only the Rectangular stadium count? It was 4 months after Optus opened so I doubt that many turned out for the novelty factor.

It was the first football game played at the venue, of any football code, and no doubt contained tourists who travelled over from the eastern states. It was also a double header. Games at new stadiums always draw big crowds. An NRL double header at Stadium Australia drew over 100,000 people in 1999 after it was opened, but struggled to average 20,000 in the years that followed. Any Perth side will be based at the Perth Oval, not a brand spanking new stadium that had the novelty factor of drawing in neutrals to see what it was like for the first time.

 

[Perth Red]

I dare say the writing was on the wall as the Reds Rams and Mariners were disbanded and players relocated to become the Melbourne Storm.
Steve Mascord is writing a book which is nearly finished with plenty of details of this time, he even interviewed Rupert, so we should know what happened when that is released.

I know someone who was on the Reds board from the beginning till the news ltd take over, it’s fascinating to hear the shady stuff that went on!

 

[LeagueXIII]

the big problem was the late adding of an extra level, it wasn’t in the business plan and sent the club into a financial spin that news ltd took advantage of. I heard the board were split 50-50 on letti g news ltd take over and the game here was torn apart and has still not recovered. We went from 10,000 players to less than 1500 in a few years! Back up to around 3500 but a long way to claw back the ground lost, Travel back in mid 90’s was ridiculously expensive compared to today and that extra 20 odd players every week was a killer.

I recall players being paid in perth, local grand finals shown on TV. Belmont I think were the club that was backed by a rich guy.

It sad when you look back and see what was lost, so much of our expansion gone. The ARL were funding the growth throughout Australia, the Pacific, they even supported the growth in South Africa.
In England the games was going well, Kangaroo Tours were massive.

 

[mongoose]

Where is the value is financing or sponsoring a team that doesn't exist yet? Companies aren't going to throw NRL money at SG Ball in the hopes that maybe one day the NRL will bother expanding.

1997 was 23 years ago, things may have changed since then. If not we shouldn't consider a 2nd Brisbane team either because Crushers.

yeah I like the double standard some people have.

Can't have Perth again cause they failed already in the mid 90s. Yet so did the Crushers but we're all gung ho about a 2nd Brisbane team.

 

[LeagueXIII]

The bloke behind the current bid, Peter Cumins, was part of the Western Reds team that went bust in 1997. He is the deputy at Cash Converters. After alll these years, lowly Cash Converters is the only mob interested in bankrolling RL in Perth. Rhey were the sponsors in 1995.

Comparing the management potential of today to 1997 is unrealistic. Take South Sydney as a guide .

 

[Perth Red]

It was the first football game played at the venue, of any football code, and no doubt contained tourists who travelled over from the eastern states. It was also a double header. Games at new stadiums always draw big crowds. An NRL double header at Stadium Australia drew over 100,000 peoplein 1999 after it was opened, but struggled to average 20,000 in the years that followed. Any Perth side will be based at the Perth Oval, not a brand spanking new stadium that had the novelty factor of drawing in neutrals to see what it was like for the first time.

Wrong as usual, 2 cricket games and an aflw game was played at Optus before the nrl double header. Hbf park hasn’t been called PERTH oval, or been oval for that matter for many years lol.
whilst it is an outlier it does show level of interest in the sport, same as origin and the five sell out crowds at hbf park. Plenty of potential if the game is ever grown up enough to realise it.
Vlandys can’t see it, hopefully the next leadership of the game can.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I menat that success, or failure, isn’t just down to player recruitment. GC have signed some big names and decent players but had no success. Storm on the other hand rarely sign big names but have had huge success.

The Titans have had a lot of crucial onfield decisions go against them that cost them matches, I've never seen Melbourne receive the rough end of a 50/50. The video ref allowed Slater to score from a blatant knock-on, going as far as saying it was a grubber, when the ball fell out of his hand against his wall and hitthe ground, then his foot touched it. Any other team and that's a knock-on

I will never forget a game between NQ and Melbourne at Lang Park in 2016. Melbourne were refusing to clear the ruck and flopping on the tackled player repeatedly to slow dowb the ruck. The ref, to his credit penalised them regularly, which made the refereea boss Cam Smith mad Smith went on to speak to the ref like a bit of shit and basically demand he atop penalising Melbourne. Feom that point the ref turned a blind eye to Melbourne's foul play. In the last minute Thurston took a a shot at field goal, but Cam Smith, who was not square at marker, used his offside position to deny Thurston a proper opportunity. The ref didn't blow penalty because Cam wouldn't like it. The commentators were disgusted by it.

 

[LeagueXIII]

You're looking back at history with rose coloured glasses. When the Reds were admittted it was on the back of large crowds, in excess of 20,000, going to the WACA to see NSWRL Premiership games. When the Reds entered the ARL they got 24,000 to some games at the WACA.

In 1996 the average for the Reds dropped to 8,200.

NRL Premiership games have been taken to the rectangular Perth Oval. The last six games that were played at that ground in 2014, 2016 and 2017 saw a sharp decline in attendances.

6,258 01-Jul-2017
11,433 21-May-2017
11,109 16-Jul-2016
13,142 05-Jun-2016
20,267 07-Jun-2014
12,014 29-Mar-2014

https://afltables.com/rl/venues/perth_o_gm.html

This shows interest in the game over there has dropped significantly. The Nines this year was a failure.

Some of those games were directly up against AFL, also wasn't there torrential rain for one of those.

It's something to build on, make them local and relevant to Perth, give them 10 years to bed down.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Wrong as usual, 2 cricket games and an aflw game was played at Optus before the nrl double header. Hbf park hasn’t been called PERTH oval, or been oval for that matter for many years lol.
whilst it is an outlier it does show level of interest in the sport, same as origin and the five sell out crowds at hbf park. Plenty of potential if the game is ever grown up enough to realise it.
Vlandys can’t see it, hopefully the next leadership of the game can.

Cricket isn't a football code you dickhead!

No one gives a toss about AFLW.

A company paying to have their name plastered over a ground doesn't mean the original name of the ground disappears into thin air. Perth Oval is still Perth Oval, and would no doubt be called that by the ABC whenever they report rthe Glory's home games as they're forbidden from referring to any commercial product when reporting the sport.

I am not going to give a company free advertising by attaching their name to a stadium whenever I mention it.

Would the Pirates be the Cash Converters Pirates just because that's their major sponsor? I've heard the Australian Wallabies referred to as the Qantas Wallabies

 

[Perth Red]

Some of those games were directly up against AFL, also wasn't there torrential rain for one of those.

It's something to build on, make them local and relevant to Perth, give them 10 years to bed down.

also the constant frustration at the lack of nrl action and feeling that we are just a money maker for nrl and eastern clubs has impacted imo. Back in 12-15 we were regularly getting 16-20k crowds. There was a big buzz as the WARL were talking up the Reds coming back then the launch of the Pirates. As the ongoing frustration grew the crowds dropped, we’ve become very sceptical of the nrl and vlandys latest comments are just another reinforcement that we are wasting our time and money supporting the nrl. doesn’t help that one year we get a game next year we don’t, waiting. 12 months plus between games hardly builds any mo entire for support for the game.

on the plus side jnrs keep growing and we’ve had a lot of new clubs start up in recent years.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Some of those games were directly up against AFL, also wasn't there torrential rain for one of those.

It's something to build on, make them local and relevant to Perth, give them 10 years to bed down.

They're down on what they got to NSWRL Premiership games, when Perth was a much smaller city.

Any Perth team will always have to deal with competition from AwFuL. Rain happens.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

also the constant frustration at the lack of nrl action and feeling that we are just a money maker for nrl and eastern clubs has impacted imo. Back in 12-15 we were regularly getting 16-20k crowds. There was a big buzz as the WARL were talking up the Reds coming back then the launch of the Pirates. As the ongoing frustration grew the crowds dropped, we’ve become very sceptical of the nrl and vlandys latest comments are just another reinforcement that we are wasting our time and money supporting the nrl. doesn’t help that one year we get a game next year we don’t, waiting. 12 months plus between games hardly builds any mo entire for support for the game.

on the plus side jnrs keep growing and we’ve had a lot of new clubs start up in recent years.

That is a lie.

Rnd Home Away Venue Crowd Date
R17
Manly 26 (5-3-0)
New Zealand 22 (4-3-0)
Perth Oval
6,258
01-Jul-2017

R11
Souths 6 (1-1-0)
Melbourne 14 (3-1-0)
Perth Oval
11,433
21-May-2017

R19
Manly 15 (2-3-1)
New Zealand 14 (2-3-0)
Perth Oval
11,109
16-Jul-2016

R13
Souths 28 (5-4-0)
Gold Coast Titans 29 (5-4-1)
Perth Oval
13,142
05-Jun-2016

R13
Souths 36 (6-6-0)
New Zealand 4 (1-0-0)
Perth Oval
20,727
06-Jun-2015

R13
Souths 34 (6-5-0)
New Zealand 18 (4-1-0)
Perth Oval
20,267
07-Jun-2014

R4
Canterbury 40 (7-6-0)
Melbourne 12 (2-2-0)
Perth Oval
12,014
29-Mar-2014

R17
Souths 30 (5-5-0)
New Zealand 13 (2-2-1)
Perth Oval
20,221
07-Jul-2013

R4
Souths 12 (2-2-0)
Brisbane 20 (4-2-0)
Perth Oval
15,599
23-Mar-2012

R16
Souths 16 (2-4-0)
Brisbane 12 (2-2-0)
Perth Oval
15,371
24-Jun-2011

R16
Souths 16 (3-2-0)
Melbourne 14 (3-1-0)
Perth Oval
13,164
26-Jun-2010

R14
Souths 22 (4-3-0)
Melbourne 28 (6-2-0)
Perth Oval
15,197
13-Jun-2009

R9
Cronulla 28 (5-4-0)
New Zealand 24 (4-4-0)
Perth Oval
13,293
07-May-2005

https://afltables.com/rl/venues/perth_o_gm.html

 

[Perth Red]

Cricket isn't a football code you dickhead!

No one gives a toss about AFLW.

A company paying to have their name plastered over a ground doesn't mean the original name of the ground disappears into thin air. Perth Oval is still Perth Oval, and would no doubt be called that by the ABC whenever they report rthe Glory's home games as they're forbidden from referring to any commercial product when reporting the sport.

I am not going to give a company free advertising by attaching their name to a stadium whenever I mention it.

Would the Pirates be the Cash Converters Pirates just because that's their major sponsor? I've heard the Australian Wallabies referred to as the Qantas Wallabies

Haha, so no football game EXCEPT the football game that drew 40,000 to it?
You were intimating that the crowd was large as it was the first event at the stadium. That’s BS, if you were a neutral sports fan there had been 3 events already that you could have gone to see the stadium before the nrl games.

 

[Perth Red]

That is a lie.

Rnd Home Away Venue Crowd Date
R17 Manly 26 (5-3-0) New Zealand 22 (4-3-0) Perth Oval 6258 01-Jul-2017
R11 Souths 6 (1-1-0) Melbourne 14 (3-1-0) Perth Oval 11433 21-May-2017
R19 Manly 15 (2-3-1) New Zealand 14 (2-3-0) Perth Oval 11109 16-Jul-2016
R13 Souths 28 (5-4-0) Gold Coast Titans 29 (5-4-1) Perth Oval 13142 05-Jun-2016
R13 Souths 36 (6-6-0) New Zealand 4 (1-0-0) Perth Oval 20727 06-Jun-2015
R13 Souths 34 (6-5-0) New Zealand 18 (4-1-0) Perth Oval 20267 07-Jun-2014
R4 Canterbury 40 (7-6-0) Melbourne 12 (2-2-0) Perth Oval 12014 29-Mar-2014
R17 Souths 30 (5-5-0) New Zealand 13 (2-2-1) Perth Oval 20221 07-Jul-2013
R4 Souths 12 (2-2-0) Brisbane 20 (4-2-0) Perth Oval 15599 23-Mar-2012
R16 Souths 16 (2-4-0) Brisbane 12 (2-2-0) Perth Oval 15371 24-Jun-2011
R16 Souths 16 (3-2-0) Melbourne 14 (3-1-0) Perth Oval 13164 26-Jun-2010
R14 Souths 22 (4-3-0) Melbourne 28 (6-2-0) Perth Oval 15197 13-Jun-2009
R9 Cronulla 28 (5-4-0) New Zealand 24 (4-4-0) Perth Oval 13293 07-May-2005

https://afltables.com/rl/venues/perth_o_gm.html

wtf you on about, 2012 - 15 there were 4 RL crowds over 20k and one just under 16k. We haveNt seen same since, validating how fans are feeling. The fans haven’t just disappeared, they arent attending as sick of being ignored.

 

[jim_57]

It was the first football game played at the venue, of any football code, and no doubt contained tourists who travelled over from the eastern states. It was also a double header. Games at new stadiums always draw big crowds. An NRL double header at Stadium Australia drew over 100,000 people in 1999 after it was opened, but struggled to average 20,000 in the years that followed. Any Perth side will be based at the Perth Oval, not a brand spanking new stadium that had the novelty factor of drawing in neutrals to see what it was like for the first time.

The stadium opened 3-4 months earlier for cricket and had at least a few games/events before the NRL showed up from memory. Anyone genuinely curious about the stadium had already had chances to go, what difference does it being football make? Why not take the chance earlier when Cricket was on? Or just wait until the AFL started 1-2 weeks later? Nobody is going to look back and say "I was at the 5th event to be held at Optus stadium". Let's not rewrite history here.

Travelling support I would guess at 3-5k absolute most.

Since we're micro-analysing details of why crowds were the size they were, let's look at the lower ones you keep stuffing your agenda with. Were any of these rain affected? Or heat? Snow? Tide too high? Other large events on? Public transport strike/shutdown? Dud matchup? NRL admin insulting them in the media in the leadup? Would they have got larger crowds in Sydney under the same circumstances?

 

[unforgiven]

I recall players being paid in perth, local grand finals shown on TV. Belmont I think were the club that was backed by a rich guy.

It sad when you look back and see what was lost, so much of our expansion gone. The ARL were funding the growth throughout Australia, the Pacific, they even supported the growth in South Africa.
In England the games was going well, Kangaroo Tours were massive.

I know country Rugby League players than moved to WA to play for clubs over there on the promise of jobs.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The stadium opened 3-4 months earlier for cricket and had at least a few games/events before the NRL showed up from memory. Anyone genuinely curious about the stadium had already had chances to go, what difference does it being football make? Why not take the chance earlier when Cricket was on? Or just wait until the AFL started 1-2 weeks later? Nobody is going to look back and say "I was at the 5th event to be held at Optus stadium". Let's not rewrite history here.

Travelling support I would guess at 3-5k absolute most.

Since we're micro-analysing details of why crowds were the size they were, let's look at the lower ones you keep stuffing your agenda with. Were any of these rain affected? Or heat? Snow? Tide too high? Other large events on? Public transport strike/shutdown? Dud matchup? NRL admin insulting them in the media in the leadup? Would they have got larger crowds in Sydney under the same circumstances?

A football fan may not want to watch a boring cricket game. I have come across quite a few people under 30 who just aren't interested in cricket. The other events were concerts, were they not? Are people going to pay $100 to watch a band they are not interested in?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

wtf you on about, 2012 - 15 there were 4 RL crowds over 20k and one just under 16k. We haveNt seen same since, validating how fans are feeling. The fans haven’t just disappeared, they arent attending as sick of being ignored.

Or maybe the RL fans from the eastern states who immigrated to Perth during the mining boom went back home.

Of those 20K attendances, only one occurred when 2 games were held during the same season. A Perth team will play a total of 12 games at home. If two games is too much for them, how are they going to handle 12?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Haha, so no football game EXCEPT the football game that drew 40,000 to it?
You were intimating that the crowd was large as it was the first event at the stadium. That’s BS, if you were a neutral sports fan there had been 3 events already that you could have gone to see the stadium before the nrl games.

A person who hates cricket isn't going to go watch the cricket, especially when it featured an English team that just got flogged.