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Question on Peter V'landys

PVL ...good for RL or not?


  • Total voters
    66
  • Poll closed .
Messages
14,822
yeah I like the double standard some people have.

Can't have Perth again cause they failed already in the mid 90s. Yet so did the Crushers but we're all gung ho about a 2nd Brisbane team.
You mean like how you support a team that comes from a small regional area that offers nothing to the TV deal and has a history of drawing some of the worst crowds in the league over the years, yet its fans feel they're entitled to dictate what Brisbane should be allowed to have?

The all time average for Canberra is only 11,379. Can Canberra fans really
point the finger at Sydney and Brisbane, lecture everyone on who should get in and fill the expansion threads with their view that a heartland city - that produced much of the talent that won premierships for the Raiders in the 80s and 90s - that has 2.5 million should be limited to just 2 teams when their own club has only averaged to draw more than 14k a season six times since 1982?

If 2.5 million people from RL heartland can only have 2, then why should Canberra's 400k have 1 when areas like Perth and Adelaide have none?

If Perth and Adelaide are so important that you're willing to deprive 2.5 million people in RL heartland or a 3rd and 4th team that will add value to the TV deal by allowing Ch9 to broadcast a Brissie team into Brissie on Thurs, Fri and Sun, to boost ratings and, the extra crowds generated from more local derbies and more money drawing games for the Cowboys, then shouldn't Canberra fans be begging for their club to be relocated to Perth so Perth Red can have his club?

Or is expansion into Perth not as important to Canberra fans as they claim in the expansion threads?

When The Great Dane was confronted about this by Perth Red of all people, he basically said it's okay for Canberra to have low crowds as it has a small population, shit weather and shit stadium.
 
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taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Hello, Adelaide!

340

Now your'e talking.The Adelaide Pirates.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,825
Can Canberra fans really
point the finger at Sydney and Brisbane, lecture everyone on who should get in and fill the expansion threads with their view that a heartland city - that produced much of the talent that won premierships for the Raiders in the 80s and 90s - that has 2.5 million should be limited to just 2 teams when their own club has only averaged to draw more than 14k a season six times since 1982?

Yep cause Ricky Stuart, Laurie Daley, Glenn Lazarus, Brad Clyde, David Furner, Chris O'sullivan are from QLD.... I never said Brisbane shouldn't have a 2nd team, just that you can't use the argument against a Perth team that they already failed during Super League when so did Brisbane 2. The Crushers failed too during SL so why should we have a 2nd Brisbane team if its not okay for Perth
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Yep cause Ricky Stuart, Laurie Daley, Glenn Lazarus, Brad Clyde, David Furner, Chris O'sullivan are from QLD.... I never said Brisbane shouldn't have a 2nd team, just that you can't use the argument against a Perth team that they already failed during Super League when so did Brisbane 2. The Crushers failed too during SL so why should we have a 2nd Brisbane team if its not okay for Perth

But most of important you forgot Greg Inglis is from Kempsey, now that's in Queensland.
 
Messages
14,822
Yep cause Ricky Stuart, Laurie Daley, Glenn Lazarus, Brad Clyde, David Furner, Chris O'sullivan are from QLD.... I never said Brisbane shouldn't have a 2nd team, just that you can't use the argument against a Perth team that they already failed during Super League when so did Brisbane 2. The Crushers failed too during SL so why should we have a 2nd Brisbane team if its not okay for Perth
Crushers got it all wrong. South Queensland was too generic and people from Brisbane didn't identify with it.

Colours were not marketable. Bombers seem to be copying them.

Logo made no sense. An old steam engine train that was taken out of usage decades earlier. No one other than a really old person or kid who watches Thomas the Tank Engine could identify with that, and it still had no relevance to a football team. Bombers making the same mistake by putting an old man who died decades earlier in their logo.

Leagues Club was based out of the Pastoral Brothers Leprechauns territory in Grange. Broncos HQ and Leagues is not far away at Red Hill. It's no coincidence that the 3 BRL clubs closest to the Donkeys went bust and so did the Crushers. All were too close to powerhouse Broncos.

Let's not underestimate the role the Broncos played in killing the Crushers. Ribot deathrided them publicly on The Footy Show and the club made it known they wanted Brisbane to be a 1 team town. The team that created Super League were bound to get their way during any peace talk negotiations. Chargers made a profit but were still cut loose to appease the Donkeys.

Meninga, Belcher and Walters were match winners. I've never seen a dummy half more dangerous close to the line than Steve Walters. I rate him ahead of Cam Smith. He played the game fair and square, except for that time he kicked the shit out of a Bulldogs player lying on the ground at Belmore in 1997.
 
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Messages
15,544
The reds and rams were left to rot on the vine in 1998 by the ARL. Binned straight into the too hard basket before giving them both a realistic chance to succeed. Was a travesty in many ways.

Admittedly at the time all I cared about was the Dragons survival. But with the benefit of hindsight it was an absolute golden opportunity to invest and grow these pioneer areas. Although the management of the day weren’t the kind of people who could carry forward on such an endeavour, they were too busy mopping up the blood.

I would not blame the ARL for the demise of either the Rams or the Reds. Both of those should be laid where it belonged, at the feet o f News Ltd. News were willing to sacrifice the Reds due to the costs of maintaining them in Perth, especially the transport costs. The Rams? They only came into existence as News Ltd were desperate to have a tenth team in Super League and they created them after every other team who stuck with the ARL turned them down. Hence when the peace came after the SL War, News were willing to sacrifice them.

The teams that you could lay at the feet of the ARL were the SQLD Crushers and the GC Chargers. They let them both die.
 
Messages
14,822
Reds and Rams were shutdown by News Ltd during the SL war as part of the compromise criteria to get back 14 clubs
If News Ltd didn't want them then I think that says all we need to know about the chances of Adelaide and Perth getting a team in the future. They would have crunched the numbers and seen that cost-benefit factor of keeping them was not in their interest, so they cut them loose. They would have known just how many people subscribed to them in these cities, during a time when Foxtel had no AwFuL coverage.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,825
If News Ltd didn't want them then I think that says all we need to know about the chances of Adelaide and Perth getting a team in the future. They would have crunched the numbers and seen that cost-benefit factor of keeping them was not in their interest, so they cut them loose. They would have known just how many people subscribed to them in these cities, during a time when Foxtel had no AwFuL coverage.

you mean like when they didn't see any value in Souths who are probably Sydneys biggest club now?
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
Yet people bang on about the lack of assets. That is the problem with them they lose value.

This year is the test. How it works and how costly

Wouldn't buying quality commercial real estate and develop it be the way to go? Parramatta seems to be prime for this right now. Go in and bid for a decent lot, design a massive tower build it and flog it off or keep it or partially keep it and go again. Isn't that what Uncle Nick has done himself?

No need to reinvent the wheel and the more you do it the better and bigger you get and eventually you end up with a considerable and valuable asset portfolio. This is where the rich and savvy friends of the NRL come in to help identify, assess, procure and advise on who to hire to complete the project.

Real estate has always been the smartest and safest asset builder in this country, if you know how to go about it the right way. The people the NRL have in their pocket that want to advise and assist know exactly how to do it. We, as they have already stated, just need the capital to start.
 

Perth Tiger

Bench
Messages
3,218
wtf you on about, 2012 - 15 there were 4 RL crowds over 20k and one just under 16k. We haveNt seen same since, validating how fans are feeling. The fans haven’t just disappeared, they arent attending as sick of being ignored.

Perhaps you could do a comparison of the tickets prices we have to pay for those games. Even if crowds have dropped a bit probably still making more revenue with higher ticket prices.

You are right, there are tons of people over here who want and are prepared to support the game but we are pretty sick of getting price gouged for every chance we do have only to be told it is all a waste of time anyway because the game has no intention of putting any development or plans in place.
 

Perth Tiger

Bench
Messages
3,218
A football fan may not want to watch a boring cricket game. I have come across quite a few people under 30 who just aren't interested in cricket. The other events were concerts, were they not? Are people going to pay $100 to watch a band they are not interested in?

The stadium had open days for people to come in to have a look before any games were played. If people were so keen to see the stadium but supposedly didn't care about RL they had plenty of chance to see the stadium before the double header. To suggest people only came to see RL (and get price gouged on the tickets) just to see the stadium is ridiculous
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Wouldn't buying quality commercial real estate and develop it be the way to go? Parramatta seems to be prime for this right now. Go in and bid for a decent lot, design a massive tower build it and flog it off or keep it or partially keep it and go again. Isn't that what Uncle Nick has done himself?

No need to reinvent the wheel and the more you do it the better and bigger you get and eventually you end up with a considerable and valuable asset portfolio. This is where the rich and savvy friends of the NRL come in to help identify, assess, procure and advise on who to hire to complete the project.

Real estate has always been the smartest and safest asset builder in this country, if you know how to go about it the right way. The people the NRL have in their pocket that want to advise and assist know exactly how to do it. We, as they have already stated, just need the capital to start.

Uncle Nick is on the committee to invest NRL money so lets see how he goes
 
Messages
8,480
I would not blame the ARL for the demise of either the Rams or the Reds. Both of those should be laid where it belonged, at the feet o f News Ltd. News were willing to sacrifice the Reds due to the costs of maintaining them in Perth, especially the transport costs. The Rams? They only came into existence as News Ltd were desperate to have a tenth team in Super League and they created them after every other team who stuck with the ARL turned them down. Hence when the peace came after the SL War, News were willing to sacrifice them.

The teams that you could lay at the feet of the ARL were the SQLD Crushers and the GC Chargers. They let them both die.

My mistake/typo, I suggested ARL and meant NRL. And the Reds folded in 97.

As for the Rams, there was a clear appetite for a Rugby League team in Adelaide.

Exhibition games had previously been taken there, the first in 1991 drawing over 28,000 people (Dragons v Tigers). Then the Rams are established in 1997....

Here was a team;
  • That was hastily cobbled together for the SL comp to make up the 10th side.
  • That drew over drew over 27,000 people to their first match
  • Averaged over 15k crowds in its first season.
  • With the exception of a game against Cronulla (2nd last home game, by which stage they were running 2nd last), all their other crowds were over 10,000 people
  • That apart from Kerrod Walters, had no established top level players
  • That only won 6 games all year.
  • In a city far closer to the eastern states than Perth (so didnt have the back-breaking travel costs that the Reds got laboured with)
In terms of a viable Rugby League team, there was absolutely huge potential.
  • Their average crowd in the first year was the 6th highest of all clubs across both competitions.
  • Of the established Sydney teams, only Parramatta's averages were higher.
Granted the SL war affected crowds that year.... so then comparing it to the 1996 season...
  • Only the Warriors, Broncos, Knights and Roosters had higher home crowd averages than this.
And comparing with 1995 (when the "SL War" was in it's embryo phase - hadn't blown up yet)
  • Only the Warriors, Broncos, Raiders, Knights, Crushers and Cowboys had higher average crowds.
  • The Warriors Crushers and Cowboys were all new teams but in "RL Heartlands". The Broncos Raiders and Knights were one-city teams and highly successful during that time.
  • The Rams in 97 had higher crowd averages than all the Sydney teams of 1995 - including Grand finalists Manly and the Bulldogs.
Ok I'll pull it up on the stats there... But effectively my argument is that the Rams were at that stage a far more attractive proposition to keep going than a lot of other teams. I agree that the GC was left to rot too - but they had multiple entities, issues, and had a longer run to prove themselves viable yet were unable to do so - and all this in a supposed RL heartland area (or state, once they went north of the tweed).

But they got absolutely no love from the NRL in 1998. There was little/no strategy or support to recruit new top line players (only the likes of Iro and Goldthorpe perhaps could be considered here) and they ended up finishing 17th of 20. They ended up having their games shifted from the centre of the city in Adelaide out to Hindmarsh stadium - which in those days was a pretty average ground (unlike today). They were indeed left to rot.

And while I may be biased having moved here last year, it's given me a whole new perspective on what the potential was. Most locals I speak to remember the Rams, and many of them fondly. My missus - who has absolutely zero interest in sport even remembers the Rams. She even knew Kerrod Walters was the captain!

There's a huge proportion of people like myself who've moved from the eastern states who love their league. I firmly believe it was a chance to have another team like what the Melbourne Storm turned out to be. A well-supported, sustainable, economically viable Rugby League team outside the heartland states. And while I doubt it will happen - I truly believe that if they came back here - the city would get behind them again.
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,456
Funny you mention the SG Ball team. What happens to those guys once they turn 19? I think Perth should have a team but 2nd tier and Pathway questions still exist.

A Bye is fine for a few seasons but eventually an 18th team will come in. Plenty of time to sort out like Warriors did and find a 2nd tier team

You mean like they were in the middle of planning:
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nr...ooted-within-three-years-20180131-h0ra81.html

Wonder what happens when the ARLC Chairman says they have no interest. If you're responsible for managing a budget, and you have a firm 'no interest' from a potential market, are you going to continue with an investment?

Despite this, you know if's possible to develop an affiliation with an existing NSW or QLD Cup team?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,111
You mean like they were in the middle of planning:
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nr...ooted-within-three-years-20180131-h0ra81.html

Wonder what happens when the ARLC Chairman says they have no interest. If you're responsible for managing a budget, and you have a firm 'no interest' from a potential market, are you going to continue with an investment?

Despite this, you know if's possible to develop an affiliation with an existing NSW or QLD Cup team?

We've had about 30-40 [players come out of our SG Ball and join a variety of NSW and Qlnd cup sides. No real advantage to being tied to just one or two.

Yeh good luck getting any Govt funding or sponsors interested after Vlandys comments! The WA Govt came out next day after he first said it and basically said they would be reviewing their investment in RL if that was his attitude. Shame as this Govt is very pro RL and the best one we've had in along time to get behind the game.
 

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