Rank the Brisbane bids

[jim_57]

Sport is tribal. When the Sydney clubs put 'Sydney' in their name back in the mid 90s there was a revolt. Balmain and Canterbury Bankstown is what their fans wanted them to be because it defined their location.

I would much sooner get behind a team called Logan, South Brisbane or East Coast than one called Brisbane.

I personally think you'd be in the minority on that last point. How many people in Logan, Redland, Moreton Bay, Ipswich etc already get behind the Broncos with no issues? The younger generation don't yearn for the days of Valleys, West Brisbane & Brothers anymore unfortunately.

Brisbane is pretty much a clean slate for the NRL, to go down the regional/suburban route Sydney is stuck in would be shooting yourself in the foot big time.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I personally think you'd be in the minority on that last point. How many people in Logan, Redland, Moreton Bay, Ipswich etc already get behind the Broncos with no issues? The younger generation don't yearn for the days of Valleys, West Brisbane & Brothers anymore unfortunately.

Brisbane is pretty much a clean slate for the NRL, to go down the regional/suburban route Sydney is stuck in would be shooting yourself in the foot big time.

There are also plenty of young people who grew up supporting the Cowboys or a Sydney club because the Donkeys don't represent them. I am one of these people. I know plenty of people from this area who hate the Donkeys. I am one of them. When asked who do they support, some say, "whoever is playing the Broncos".

Greater Brisbane is a large area. The southern suburbs are distinctly different to the northern suburbs. Logan is different to the southern suburbs of Brisbane. Redland is different to Logan, hence the fallout when the government tried to amalgamate the two cities.

You're suggesting that the NRL ignore human nature and confine the long and storied history of rugby league in southeast Queensland to the scrapheap. What you will create in its aftermath is a soulless plastic franchise, just like the Donkeys. The same people who hate the Donkeys for that reason will also hate the new club because it is no different.

 

[jim_57]

Springwood is Logan's CBD and is currently undergoing a transformation.

https://issuu.com/logancitycouncil/docs/springwood_master_plan

I've lived in Logan for 20 years. The people here are different to those who live in the southern suburbs of Brisbane. Logan is a more down to Earth place to live. Go for a day trip to the Logan Hyperdome, then go to Garden City at Upper Mt Gravatt or Carindale Shopping Centre and you'll see two different sets of people. At the Logan Hyperdome you will see people driving BMWs to Fords to Holdens to every other brand but happy to wear RL gear of their favourite club and not worry what other people think of them. In the Brisbane shopping centres the people are wearing designer clothes and much less friendly.

There are plenty of historically significant buildings in Logan. The Logan Historical Museum at the Kingston Butter Factory is one example. The city itself is named after the most important man in the history of southeast Queensland. Captain Patrick Logan. He was an explorer who fought for the Moreton Bay Penal Settlement to continue when other leaders wanted to shut it down. Without him there would be no Brisbane or Ipswich or Gold Coast. He discovered many of the localities in the area.

When I talk to people and ask them what they did for the day they will say, "I had to go into Brisbane" or "I went to the Gold Coast".

I've spoken to people passing by at parks who told me they haven't been into Brisbane in years. Their words, not mine.

Springwood is Logan's CBD and is currently undergoing a transformation.

https://issuu.com/logancitycouncil/docs/springwood_master_plan

I've lived in Logan for 20 years. The people here are different to those who live in the southern suburbs of Brisbane. Logan is a more down to Earth place to live. Go for a day trip to the Logan Hyperdome, then go to Garden City at Upper Mt Gravatt or Carindale Shopping Centre and you'll see two different sets of people. At the Logan Hyperdome you will see people driving BMWs to Fords to Holdens to every other brand but happy to wear RL gear of their favourite club and not worry what other people think of them. In the Brisbane shopping centres the people are wearing designer clothes and much less friendly.

There are plenty of historically significant buildings in Logan. The Logan Historical Museum at the Kingston Butter Factory is one example. The city itself is named after the most important man in the history of southeast Queensland. Captain Patrick Logan. He was an explorer who fought for the Moreton Bay Penal Settlement to continue when other leaders wanted to shut it down. Without him there would be no Brisbane or Ipswich or Gold Coast. He discovered many of the localities in the area.

When I talk to people and ask them what they did for the day they will say, "I had to go into Brisbane" or "I went to the Gold Coast".

I've spoken to people passing by at parks who told me they haven't been into Brisbane in years. Their words, not mine.

I know people are in different circles but I've lived in Springwood within the last 5 years and visit a relative there minimum 2-3 times a year for the last 15-20 years. I've seen very little of the tribalism you speak of within my experiences there theough work, sport, pubs etc.

No great point arguing too much more about what other people have/haven't experienced but I haven't seen it the way you're telling it, I'm sure it is out there but probably not as widespread as you're implying.

P.s. Springwood/Logan "CBD" looks like any other suburb's 'centre', a couple smallish shopping centres, pubs, maccas, umm..

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I know people are in different circles but I've lived in Springwood within the last 5 years and visit a relative there minimum 2-3 times a year for the last 15-20 years. I've seen very little of the tribalism you speak of within my experiences there theough work, sport, pubs etc.

No great point arguing too much more about what other people have/haven't experienced but I haven't seen it the way you're telling it, I'm sure it is out there but probably not as widespread as you're implying.

P.s. Springwood/Logan "CBD" looks like any other suburb's 'centre', a couple smallish shopping centres, pubs, maccas, umm..

It's not even close to being completed yet. The council is still buying up property on Cinderella Dr so they can add another two lanes, then the big skyscrapers will be built. Some businesses have already moved in there. An arts theatre and Town Centre is going to be built, I think where the Springwood Central Primary School is located. Other stuff will be built too.

Springwood is in the northern suburbs and close to the border of Brisbane. It is also very affluent. The western and southern suburbs is where the cultural divide becomes more apparent.

 

[Reflector]

There are also plenty of young people who grew up supporting the Cowboys or a Sydney club because the Donkeys don't represent them. I am one of these people. I know plenty of people from this area who hate the Donkeys. I am one of them. When asked who do they support, some say, "whoever is playing the Broncos".

Greater Brisbane is a large area. The southern suburbs are distinctly different to the northern suburbs. Logan is different to the southern suburbs of Brisbane. Redland is different to Logan, hence the fallout when the government tried to amalgamate the two cities.

You're suggesting that the NRL ignore human nature and confine the long and storied history of rugby league in southeast Queensland to the scrapheap. What you will create in its aftermath is a soulless plastic franchise, just like the Donkeys. The same people who hate the Donkeys for that reason will also hate the new club because it is no different.

Hence why the Bombers bid would be doomed to fail from day one.

 

[jim_57]

There are also plenty of young people who grew up supporting the Cowboys or a Sydney club because the Donkeys don't represent them. I am one of these people. I know plenty of people from this area who hate the Donkeys. I am one of them. When asked who do they support, some say, "whoever is playing the Broncos".

Greater Brisbane is a large area. The southern suburbs are distinctly different to the northern suburbs. Logan is different to the southern suburbs of Brisbane. Redland is different to Logan, hence the fallout when the government tried to amalgamate the two cities.

You're suggesting that the NRL ignore human nature and confine the long and storied history of rugby league in southeast Queensland to the scrapheap. What you will create in its aftermath is a soulless plastic franchise, just like the Donkeys. The same people who hate the Donkeys for that reason will also hate the new club because it is no different.

As much as I'm not a fan of them the Broncos are the biggest club in the NRL and one of the biggest in Australian sport, dare I say maybe the biggest Rugby club of either code in the world. I'm not so convinced creating another club just like would be such a massive mistake.

Also I don't really think anyone under a certain age would dislike the Broncos because they're 'plastic'. There are variety of reasons why people may not to like them but being a corporate giant that killed the BRL as it was and/or joined Super League isn't on the radar of most of the younger generations.

There is plenty of middle ground between another "all of Brisbane" team (Bombers) and a Redcliffe, Logan or Ipswich team representing such a small part of the Brisbane metro area.

If someone doesn't want to get behind a team because they represent more than their local area of a larger city then the NRL isn't for them, they can support their small area in QCup or local footy.

 

[Perth Red]

Hence why the Bombers bid would be doomed to fail from day one.

You'd have to really understand why some people in Brisbane refuse to follow their local NRL club before making a sweeping statement like that. I suspect the reasons would be very varied and more related to the way Broncos behaved in SL and to BRL, cost of attending games, most games being Friday night family unfriendly, being too far away from the Stadium to get their on a night etc than any great dislike of the generic city wide brand.
Ideally the NRL would be doing that market research to help them make a decision on which bid they choose, if they choose any.
The experience in Perth wasnt so much that people refused to follow Eagles but when Dockers came along they liked the brand, related more to Freo as their southern metro club or simply couldnt go to watch the Eagles as the memberships were sold out for years ahead. Fremantle is the "spirtual" centre for the southern suburbs and so a specific name had a large region catchment of around 1million people.

I think a well run club with strong community engagement and attracting a broad demographic in a large population catchment playing at Suncorp is going to work in Brisbane regardless of name, at least I hope so or it will be a massive waste of an NRL expansion opportunity.

 

[jim_57]

Hence why the Bombers bid would be doomed to fail from day one.

Fail like the Broncos have?

Again, trying to recreate the biggest Rugby club in the world is hardly the automatic failure some seem to be thinking it is. Better than trying to recreate Manly, Wests or St George.

No way should the NRL be aiming to oversaturate Brisbane like Sydney. If the end game is 3 clubs in Brisbane which would be more than enough medium-long term then the team that gets brought in needs to cover a wide base. The NRL doesn't have an unlimited amount of spots to be giving away to every region of Brisbane to keep some people happy while they alienate most of the metro area.

A simple north/south of the river divide would be fine in my opinion for the next 10-20 years at least. Anyone who can't get behind a team from the city they live in because it doesn't exclusively represent their smaller area will have to be happy with the QLD Cup or local footy.

 

[The Great Dane]

Hence why the Bombers bid would be doomed to fail from day one.

Most of the same people that hate the Bombers for being "plastic" will also hate the "rival" team for being promoted instead of them, in fact it's my experience that they tend to be much more resentful of the promoted team then any new entity.

No matter what you do there's no pleasing some people, so stop trying to please them and target the largest group of people that it is possible to please, and a small (relative to the rest of the city) suburban club's fan base isn't, and never will be, the largest group of people possible.

 

[Perth Red]

Has there ever been any market research done to find out just how many people are NRL fans but dont support the Broncos, or another NRL team, in Brisbane? We seem to be making a huge assumption that there are tens of thousands of RL fans in Brisbane waiting for a new club to enter the NRL? Given Broncos arent close to selling out games and memberships arent close to say a WC Eagles, which would be a similar sized market, is there any evidence that there is a large latent fanbase in waiting?

 

[jim_57]

Has there ever been any market research done to find out just how many people are NRL fans but dont support the Broncos, or another NRL team, in Brisbane? We seem to be making a huge assumption that there are tens of thousands of RL fans in Brisbane waiting for a new club to enter the NRL? Given Broncos arent close to selling out games and memberships arent close to say a WC Eagles, which would be a similar sized market, is there any evidence that there is a large latent fanbase in waiting?

There'd probably be some, but to assume whichever bid could just come in and rely on that market to be a success would be a recipe for disaster.

Like any new club a fair chunk of the crowds in the first few years will probably be "2nd team" supporters and away club supporters. Competing on a level footing with the Broncos to get kids supporting the club is where the future really lies.

 

[Reflector]

Fail like the Broncos have?

Again, trying to recreate the biggest Rugby club in the world is hardly the automatic failure some seem to be thinking it is. Better than trying to recreate Manly, Wests or St George.

No way should the NRL be aiming to oversaturate Brisbane like Sydney. If the end game is 3 clubs in Brisbane which would be more than enough medium-long term then the team that gets brought in needs to cover a wide base. The NRL doesn't have an unlimited amount of spots to be giving away to every region of Brisbane to keep some people happy while they alienate most of the metro area.

A simple north/south of the river divide would be fine in my opinion for the next 10-20 years at least. Anyone who can't get behind a team from the city they live in because it doesn't exclusively represent their smaller area will have to be happy with the QLD Cup or local footy.

No, they would fail because they (like the Broncos) would be a franchise with no links to the QRL or the games' traditions in Qld, but (unlike the Broncos) would have no history of success to draw from. Like if you don't follow the Broncos because you find them too "corporate", why would you follow a team just as corporate but without any of the NRL history or silverware?

 

[jim_57]

No, they would fail because they (like the Broncos) would be a franchise with no links to the QRL or the games' traditions in Qld, but (unlike the Broncos) would have no history of success to draw from. Like if you don't follow the Broncos because you find them too "corporate", why would you follow a team just as corporate but without any of the NRL history or silverware?

I don't think people not following the Broncos because of how corporate they are is as much of a thing as people say it is on here. I've heard a lot of colourful reasons why people don't like the Broncos but that one rarely comes up.

Every NRL club is a multi-million $ business, they're all "corporate". Nothing about having money and sponsors means they can't engage with the community as well. If some in the community see them as evil because they have strong business connections and make money then the NRL may not be the Rugby League competition for them.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

As much as I'm not a fan of them the Broncos are the biggest club in the NRL and one of the biggest in Australian sport, dare I say maybe the biggest Rugby club of either code in the world. I'm not so convinced creating another club just like would be such a massive mistake.

Also I don't really think anyone under a certain age would dislike the Broncos because they're 'plastic'. There are variety of reasons why people may not to like them but being a corporate giant that killed the BRL as it was and/or joined Super League isn't on the radar of most of the younger generations.

There is plenty of middle ground between another "all of Brisbane" team (Bombers) and a Redcliffe, Logan or Ipswich team representing such a small part of the Brisbane metro area.

If someone doesn't want to get behind a team because they represent more than their local area of a larger city then the NRL isn't for them, they can support their small area in QCup or local footy.

The circumstances that led to the Donkeys' formation no longer exist and cannot be replicated. When the Donkeys entered the NSWRL their average was only half of what it is today. It took time and success for them to become the club they are, and much of that is because for many people under 30 they are the only 'local' club they've ever known. In that context, their average of 34,000 is shit considering they have 2.5 million people to themselves.

Having 2 generic centralised clubs in an area as big as Greater Brisbane won't work. People who struggle to get to Lang Park because they live on the northern, western, southern or eastern outskirts of Greater Brisbane will have just as much trouble getting to games. Brisbane is getting more congested, especially at night time, which makes it even harder and less desirable to go to games. Instead of telling 2.5 million people of Greater Brisbane to squeeze into Milton during peak hour traffic to watch a couple of soulless franchises that just want their money, it would be better to create a few region specific clubs that are easier for people to access. Take the game to the people and the people will come to the game.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Has there ever been any market research done to find out just how many people are NRL fans but dont support the Broncos, or another NRL team, in Brisbane? We seem to be making a huge assumption that there are tens of thousands of RL fans in Brisbane waiting for a new club to enter the NRL? Given Broncos arent close to selling out games and memberships arent close to say a WC Eagles, which would be a similar sized market, is there any evidence that there is a large latent fanbase in waiting?

Yes. Television ratings for rugby league in Brisbane is incredibly high. Around 40,000 or more registered players in QRL competitions. It's the most talked about sport on the street, 6pm news, at work and at school. Thousands of Cowboys fans live here,any of them born and raiswd in Brisbane, as there was no one else to support.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No way should the NRL be aiming to oversaturate Brisbane like Sydney. If the end game is 3 clubs in Brisbane which would be more than enough medium-long term then the team that gets brought in needs to cover a wide base. The NRL doesn't have an unlimited amount of spots to be giving away to every region of Brisbane to keep some people happy while they alienate most of the metro area.

A simple north/south of the river divide would be fine in my opinion for the next 10-20 years at least. Anyone who can't get behind a team from the city they live in because it doesn't exclusively represent their smaller area will have to be happy with the QLD Cup or local footy.

Four clubs in Brisbane isn't oversaturation. It's fair representation. Putting a team in Perth or Adelaide before Brisbane 2, 3 or 4 would be a massive insult to the 111 year history of Brisbane rugby league. It would also be a huge waste of money and time, because WA ans SA are and always will be rusted on fumbleball states. They're never going to have 40,000 registered players like the QRL. They won't churn out quality RL players like the QRL has done since 1909. They wont draw more than 50,000 TV viewers. At the moment Perth has 5,000 people watching NRL games on Ch.9 and about 1,000 to 4,000 registered players.

 

[mongoose]

Has there ever been any market research done to find out just how many people are NRL fans but dont support the Broncos, or another NRL team, in Brisbane? We seem to be making a huge assumption that there are tens of thousands of RL fans in Brisbane waiting for a new club to enter the NRL? Given Broncos arent close to selling out games and memberships arent close to say a WC Eagles, which would be a similar sized market, is there any evidence that there is a large latent fanbase in waiting?

Lots of League fans in Brisbane support other NRL clubs. Storm, Dragons, Rabbitohs, Warriors, Eels, Cowboys all have reasonably strong support in SE QLD. Not sure how many of them would commit to Brisbane 2 as a second club. I was only young at the time but I remember the Crushers promoted themselves very well in the beginning and there was a lot of buzz around them entering the ARL. They did a lot right before they were dumped during SL. The landscape is a lot different now so its very hard to say how a second Brisbane team will be received... and some people don't want to hear it but AFL is much stronger in Brisbane now than it was in 1995. It was literally a joke back then.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Lots of League fans in Brisbane support other NRL clubs. Storm, Dragons, Rabbitohs, Warriors, Eels, Cowboys all have reasonably strong support in SE QLD. Not sure how many of them would commit to Brisbane 2 as a second club. I was only young at the time but I remember the Crushers promoted themselves very well in the beginning and there was a lot of buzz around them entering the ARL. They did a lot right before they were dumped during SL. The landscape is a lot different now so its very hard to say how a second Brisbane team will be received... and some people don't want to hear it but AFL is much stronger in Brisbane now than it was in 1995. It was literally a joke back then.

Crushers big mistake was basing their HQ at Grange, as it was too close to Broncos Leagues at Red Hill. Their branding sucked, an old steam engine train tied to an abhorrent colour scheme. Their name South Queensland was too generic. Super League really hurt the heartland areas.

The Bombers bid is just as shit, using similar colours and basing the logo around Kingsford-Smith, who was around when steam trains were in operation. If it's history they want that will be marketable then they won't get it by putting some old bloke who died decades ago on their logo. Saddle up with one, two or three BRL clubs, build the team around its long history which can be marketed by former players, TV celebrities who grew up following them and journalists who can recount all sorts of interesting tales from back in the day. People under 30 won't be turned off by club rivalries, so it's a win win.

 

[Perth Red]

Crushers ended up with a crowd avg of 7000. Just saying lol
Diluting the Failing Qland Clubs talent even further, putting melbournes success at risk, taking corporate support away from an already struggling Titans, no guarantee of fanbase, seems like lots of downsides to another Brisbane side.

 

[jim_57]

Four clubs in Brisbane isn't oversaturation. It's fair representation. Putting a team in Perth or Adelaide before Brisbane 2, 3 or 4 would be a massive insult to the 111 year history of Brisbane rugby league. It would also be a huge waste of money and time, because WA ans SA are and always will be rusted on fumbleball states. They're never going to have 40,000 registered players like the QRL. They won't churn out quality RL players like the QRL has done since 1909. They wont draw more than 50,000 TV viewers. At the moment Perth has 5,000 people watching NRL games on Ch.9 and about 1,000 to 4,000 registered players.

Brisbane can have 4 clubs in the QLD Cup. Brisbane is half the size of Sydney so 4 clubs is much the same as the 8.5 in Sydney which is definitely oversaturated. Two wrongs don't make a right here, if the NRL had a clean slate no way would Sydney have 8.5 clubs, they have a relatively clean slate in Brisbane so I strongly doubt they're willing to dig the same grave in Brisbane.

"Massive insult" by not letting 4 Brisbane clubs cannibalize each other for support? Brisbane only has one club now, let's settle down a bit. These players you speak of aren't disappearing in to thin air either. If you think Brisbane will have 4 clubs before Adelaide or Perth get one prepared to be disappointed and massively insulted.