Rationalisation of Sydney

[Stallion]

Hit the nail on the head. Most of those are one town teams.

I’ve no doubt one team in Perth, Adelaide, Central Coast, Rockhampton and Christchurch/Wellington could have a similar effect.

Cowboys are a great example. Townsville isn’t a huge place, nor is it particularly affluent and yet they’re an NRL powerhouse and with the new stadium coming they’ll be one of the best franchises in the NRL.

However the tyranny of distance does and should apply In this expansive country. A consistent losing team.in anot isolated town will see a downturn in the code in that area. The proximity of clubs is extremely important for the continued relevance and interest in this competition. This is why highly populated areas such as the east coast of NSW warrant the maintenance and consolidation of top flight clubs. Numbers and population density count. This is not to say the isolated clubs are not good for the code at all. But they are vulnerable due to there distance issues when not performing.

 

[Perth Red]

However the tyranny of distance does and should apply In this expansive country. A consistent losing team.in anot isolated town will see a downturn in the code in that area. The proximity of clubs is extremely important for the continued relevance and interest in this competition. This is why highly populated areas such as the east coast of NSW warrant the maintenance and consolidation of top flight clubs. Numbers and population density count. This is not to say the isolated clubs are not good for the code at all. But they are vulnerable due to there distance issues when not performing.

What a strange argument. Are you suggesting the fans that have abandoned manly keep their interest in the game because Souths are doing well?

 

[MugaB]

What a strange argument. Are you suggesting the fans that have abandoned manly keep their interest in the game because Souths are doing well?

Manly are not a good example, northern sydney/CC abandoned Manly after that failed merger.
If souths are doing well, is inconsequential, to other teams, last year Parramatta were terrible, and Penrith were doing well, this year its somewhat reversed, but it early days and not as bad as Parramatta. Doesnt affect sydney, but look at titans for example, they do well/poorly you notice it moreso because of the locality

 

[Cdd]

However the tyranny of distance does and should apply In this expansive country. A consistent losing team.in anot isolated town will see a downturn in the code in that area. The proximity of clubs is extremely important for the continued relevance and interest in this competition. This is why highly populated areas such as the east coast of NSW warrant the maintenance and consolidation of top flight clubs. Numbers and population density count. This is not to say the isolated clubs are not good for the code at all. But they are vulnerable due to there distance issues when not performing.

Ridiculous argument.

Warriors have never won the comp and miss out on the play-offs and yet still they get on fine.

North Queensland were awful for years and yet have some of the most loyal support.

Canberra don’t have a team round the corner and rarely have any performances on the field to get excited about and yet they’re getting on fine as a club.

Obviously success helps. But distance from the other teams in the competition has no impact.

I agree we shouldn’t forget about the areas where the game is strong, I hate the notion that we need to focus on new markets OR the heartlands when in reality its both!

But I really don’t understand how a new team being far away from Sydney would fold just because it has some bad form.

Gold Coast have been under threat of going under along with a few Sydney clubs and yet they ARE in close proximity to rival teams.... how do you explain that one?

And yet Melbourne, NZ Warriors, Canberra, North Queensland etc. Don’t have clubs nearby and yet are some of our most financially stable and well supported teams.

Sounds like you’re nervous about your club being ‘cut’ from the comp.

Same as the small mindedness in England with some flatcappers wanting Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax in Super League just because “they’re in the heartlands”.

Some of these heartlands clubs in Sydney need to offer more and particularly improve attendances otherwise they can go for me.

Doesn’t look good for the image of the game when we’ve got clubs that have been around for generations who get sub 10k crowds in the NRL’s main strong hold.

I’d sooner have an exciting new club in new territory for the game than a historical club limping along making the NRL look more small time than the A-league.

 

[MugaB]

Ridiculous argument.

Warriors have never won the comp and miss out on the play-offs and yet still they get on fine.

North Queensland were awful for years and yet have some of the most loyal support.

Canberra don’t have a team round the corner and rarely have any performances on the field to get excited about and yet they’re getting on fine as a club.

Obviously success helps. But distance from the other teams in the competition has no impact.

I agree we shouldn’t forget about the areas where the game is strong, I hate the notion that we need to focus on new markets OR the heartlands when in reality its both!

But I really don’t understand how a new team being far away from Sydney would fold just because it has some bad form.

Gold Coast have been under threat of going under along with a few Sydney clubs and yet they ARE in close proximity to rival teams.... how do you explain that one?

And yet Melbourne, NZ Warriors, Canberra, North Queensland etc. Don’t have clubs nearby and yet are some of our most financially stable and well supported teams.

Sounds like you’re nervous about your club being ‘cut’ from the comp.

Same as the small mindedness in England with some flatcappers wanting Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax in Super League just because “they’re in the heartlands”.

Some of these heartlands clubs in Sydney need to offer more and particularly improve attendances otherwise they can go for me.

Doesn’t look good for the image of the game when we’ve got clubs that have been around for generations who get sub 10k crowds in the NRL’s main strong hold.

I’d sooner have an exciting new club in new territory for the game than a historical club limping along making the NRL look more small time than the A-league.

Which is why im ok if they move on/drop manly, or roosters, although uncle nick wont let that pass

 

[Stallion]

Ridiculous argument.

Warriors have never won the comp and miss out on the play-offs and yet still they get on fine.

North Queensland were awful for years and yet have some of the most loyal support.

Canberra don’t have a team round the corner and rarely have any performances on the field to get excited about and yet they’re getting on fine as a club.

Obviously success helps. But distance from the other teams in the competition has no impact.

I agree we shouldn’t forget about the areas where the game is strong, I hate the notion that we need to focus on new markets OR the heartlands when in reality its both!

But I really don’t understand how a new team being far away from Sydney would fold just because it has some bad form.

Gold Coast have been under threat of going under along with a few Sydney clubs and yet they ARE in close proximity to rival teams.... how do you explain that one?

And yet Melbourne, NZ Warriors, Canberra, North Queensland etc. Don’t have clubs nearby and yet are some of our most financially stable and well supported teams.

Sounds like you’re nervous about your club being ‘cut’ from the comp.

Same as the small mindedness in England with some flatcappers wanting Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax in Super League just because “they’re in the heartlands”.

Some of these heartlands clubs in Sydney need to offer more and particularly improve attendances otherwise they can go for me.

Doesn’t look good for the image of the game when we’ve got clubs that have been around for generations who get sub 10k crowds in the NRL’s main strong hold.

I’d sooner have an exciting new club in new territory for the game than a historical club limping along making the NRL look more small time than the A-league.

Lol. You refer to the Aleague. This is an example of the tyranny of distance issues. You will note the Aleague is adding teams on majo cities not isolated. Last week on his weekly podcast (six tackles with Gus) Gus Gould recommended the NRL should have another side on Brisbane (Brisbane created ) and even another club in Auckland to rival the game or so Warriors . All to do with harnessing local rivalries. These are additional clubs to the league. And they make perfect sense. He also mentioned Perth as a desirable addition due to its tv time screening advantages.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Grand final appearances are the biggest day of publicising a club bar none. It's when supporters are won over. In fact most of the people following a club would have found the club from a grandfinal appearance. I did with the team I follow. I'm sure this is a common trait with plenty of supporters. Grand finals are gold. The biggest day of the year with the biggest audience outside of representative fixtures for rugby league.

Wait, isn't it local rivalries and access to a team within your suburb / region that wins over fans according to your theory?

 

[Stallion]

Wait, isn't it local rivalries and access to a team within your suburb / region that wins over fans according to your theory?

That's part of it idiot!

 

[ReddFelon]

The tyranny of distance is precisely why City vs Country Origin regularly beats out State of Origin in both attendance and ratings...It is also why Brisbane vs North Queensland at Suncorp gets fewer attendees than Parramatta vs Wests.

 

[Stallion]

The tyranny of distance is precisely why City vs Country Origin regularly beats out State of Origin in both attendance and ratings...It is also why Brisbane vs North Queensland at Suncorp gets fewer attendees than Parramatta vs Wests.

No idea ! If you don't think that distance is a factor in people attending a game you are truelly delusional! Understanding that people from NQ reside in Brisbane and vice versa is common sense! But major population centres like on Sydney take on a whole different dimension linked to historical and locality based rivalries.

 

[ReddFelon]

No idea ! If you don't think that distance is a factor in people attending a game you are truelly delusional! Understanding that people from NQ reside in Brisbane and vice versa is common sense! But major population centres like on Sydney take on a whole different dimension linked to historical and locality based rivalries.

Why are the turnouts so bad then? More people in my home suburb attended a music festival than a football game last week. The Sydney clubs aren't engaging their fans well enough to get them to show up.

Also your argument about "if a professional team isn't doing well the sport will suffer" is garbage. Both the Perth and Melbourne rugby union teams have never won anything, yet their existence has seen participation in both sports double. The presence of an NRL team in expansion cities would increase sport participation rates regardless of success on the field.

 

[braz]

The tyranny of distance is precisely why City vs Country Origin regularly beats out State of Origin in both attendance and ratings...It is also why Brisbane vs North Queensland at Suncorp gets fewer attendees than Parramatta vs Wests.

I wouldn’t mind betting that Parra v Wests attendance has outdrawn the Qld derby with the Easter Monday game. Not sure that’s the best example

 

[ReddFelon]

I wouldn’t mind betting that Parra v Wests attendance has outdrawn the Qld derby with the Easter Monday game. Not sure that’s the best example

Outdrawn once or twice? Maybe. As a regular fixture, no chance and now with WSS no chance ever again. The point being that a special holiday game vs Thursday night round 2. The distance issue is a lie.

 

[Stallion]

Why are the turnouts so bad then? More people in my home suburb attended a music festival than a football game last week. The Sydney clubs aren't engaging their fans well enough to get them to show up.

Also your argument about "if a professional team isn't doing well the sport will suffer" is garbage. Both the Perth and Melbourne rugby union teams have never won anything, yet their existence has seen participation in both sports double. The presence of an NRL team in expansion cities would increase sport participation rates regardless of success on the field.

Lol. The union numbers have doubled from a very low low! Your logic is crap! Axing a club like has happened in North Sydney and the resultant decline in the code of rugby-league has occured. To deny this is denying reality. Manly is now not fielding a 75 year old A grade competition ! And you come up with this dribble! No doubt doing your bit for union!

 

[ReddFelon]

Lol. The union numbers have doubled from a very low low! Your logic is crap! Axing a club like has happened in North Sydney and the resultant decline in the code of rugby-league has occured. To deny this is denying reality. Manly is now not fielding a 75 year old A grade competition ! And you come up with this dribble! No doubt doing your bit for union!

Perth union numbers pre-Western Force = 4,500 registered participants
Current numbers are 16,000

Melbourne numbers pre Rebels = 6,000
Current numbers 15,000

Perth Rugby League participation was at its highest in the mid 90s and decreased every year until 2013 after the Reds were dropped. The WA RL community has done everything to rebuild the entire game after it was absolutely gutted in the 2000s. North Sydney still has Rugby League, you're not going to see a mass uptake by bringing back the Bears.

 

[Stallion]

Perth union numbers pre-Western Force = 4,500 registered participants
Current numbers are 16,000

Melbourne numbers pre Rebels = 6,000
Current numbers 15,000

Perth Rugby League participation was at its highest in the mid 90s and decreased every year until 2013 after the Reds were dropped. The WA RL community has done everything to rebuild the entire game after it was absolutely gutted in the 2000s. North Sydney still has Rugby League, you're not going to see a mass uptake by bringing back the Bears.

What a fraud of a statement. Guarantee rugbyleague juniors would increase markedly with the Bears and Sea Eagles local rivalry back. That's what's missing. Another whiteanting tact from union. You are doing a good job for the code run by biggotry!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Axing a club like has happened in North Sydney and the resultant decline in the code of rugby-league has occured. To deny this is denying reality.

That's just not true though. Attendances are higher now than at any time during the Bears' time in the top flight, so are TV ratings and memberships.

Norths averaged between 10 - 15k fans depending on the success of their season. Melbourne have now replaced these fans (17k average last year), given us a greater national footprint and opened up the second biggest market in the country to us that has a much higher growth ceiling than a suburb in Sydney.

 

[Perth Red]

I think that's the key issue, for some current clubs their maximum potential is 15-17k IF everything lines up in their favour. That's just not enough. We need clubs whose maximum potential is 25k plus, then when they are on hard times they are dropping down to 15, not 9k. Its the only way we will ever see a significant increase in avg attendances and more importantly sustainability and flourishing of clubs from football generated revenue.

I don't see TV audiences really changing much as they are mostly made up of neutrals so doesn't really matter which clubs are playing. In fact looking at ratings when clubs with bigger attendances are playing it tends to draw bigger tv audiences. There's something to be said for atmosphere on TV rather than big empty stadiums or half full suburban amateur grounds.

 

[Perth Red]

Perth union numbers pre-Western Force = 4,500 registered participants
Current numbers are 16,000

Melbourne numbers pre Rebels = 6,000
Current numbers 15,000

Perth Rugby League participation was at its highest in the mid 90s and decreased every year until 2013 after the Reds were dropped. The WA RL community has done everything to rebuild the entire game after it was absolutely gutted in the 2000s. North Sydney still has Rugby League, you're not going to see a mass uptake by bringing back the Bears.

Good point. WA had the largest % participation growth of anywhere in the country last year. Imagine what we will achieve with an NRL club!

 

[Stallion]

That's just not true though. Attendances are higher now than at any time during the Bears' time in the top flight, so are TV ratings and memberships.

Norths averaged between 10 - 15k fans depending on the success of their season. Melbourne have now replaced these fans (17k average last year), given us a greater national footprint and opened up the second biggest market in the country to us that has a much higher growth ceiling than a suburb in Sydney.

You are consistently not looking at the right stuff! Junior playing numbers are well down! So are total attendance numbers for the northern Sydney area including Manly Warringah. But you can't see this weakening of the code. You are waiting for it to be on its knees and then blame something else!