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Rationalisation of Sydney

Cdd

Juniors
Messages
22
Still don’t understand why people think it needs to be a case of strengthening the heartlands OR expanding. We need BOTH.

There is nothing stopping the Sydney clubs from strengthening other than themselves. Most of them are clearly not promoting themselves well enough to improve attendances or the image of the game.

There would be no talk of relocating a Sydney team if they were all playing in front of 20k+ people every week.

The NRL wont reach its potential until they start to fill stadiums.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,551
I think the hypothetical debate is IF the nrl, for whatever the reason, feels it can’t or won’t expand beyond 16 (or longer term 18) clubs then what? Stay as we are or do something drastic with Sydney.

But your right if they had crowds of 20k plus, but they don’t and it’s unlikely some ever will.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
I think the hypothetical debate is IF the nrl, for whatever the reason, feels it can’t or won’t expand beyond 16 (or longer term 18) clubs then what? Stay as we are or do something drastic with Sydney.

But your right if they had crowds of 20k plus, but they don’t and it’s unlikely some ever will.

Let's hope the "unlikely" comment is wrong. For others: better marketing, consolidation , reclamation and cheaper entry prices with improved stadiums is the positive and prudent way to go. Additional clubs being welcomed.
 
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Walter sobchak

First Grade
Messages
5,845
https://www.triplem.com.au/story/go...-stay-in-sydney-amidst-relocation-talk-133214

Gorden Tallis Questions Why The Roosters "Have" To Stay In Sydney Amidst Relocation Talk
Serious question but what’s keeping the roosters in Sydney?? I now 8000-9000 hardcore fans would be pi@#ed off if their team moved to say the central coast and rightly so but couldn’t the roosters play a few home games in Sydney on top of the away games against sydney based sides to satisfy their fans at the same time as growing the club in a new “expansion” area??
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Serious question but what’s keeping the roosters in Sydney?? I now 8000-9000 hardcore fans would be pi@#ed off if their team moved to say the central coast and rightly so but couldn’t the roosters play a few home games in Sydney on top of the away games against sydney based sides to satisfy their fans at the same time as growing the club in a new “expansion” area??

As a Roosters fan I much prefer them hook into their local area and develope/grow their juniors. Don't think "running away " is a positive agenda. And I'd also like the Roosters to be called the East Sydney Roosters.
 

Walter sobchak

First Grade
Messages
5,845
As a Roosters fan I much prefer them hook into their local area and developer/grow their juniors. Don't think "running away " is a positive agenda. And I'd also like the Roosters to be called the East Sydney Roosters.
Why did the club move away and change their name from the eastern suburbs??
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,221
I think the hypothetical debate is IF the nrl, for whatever the reason, feels it can’t or won’t expand beyond 16 (or longer term 18) clubs then what? Stay as we are or do something drastic with Sydney.

But your right if they had crowds of 20k plus, but they don’t and it’s unlikely some ever will.


Precisely.. if the NRL decides that 16 clubs (or 18.. or even 20) is an upper limit on what they can afford to run/willing to run, then there's got to be some serious questions asked about the saturation of teams in Sydney - because there's potentially more profitable prospects elsewhere.

If we capitalise on all the big opportunities we have for expansion, plus keeping all the remaining teams - we're easily looking at 20 clubs.. maybe even mid 20s.

With the current competition running to 25 rounds, that could be up to 26 clubs with everyone playing everyone else just the once - is that even feasible? Or would we see a number of clubs as woeful as the 1998-99 Magpies ?

Added to that, Basketball, AFL, Cricket & A-league all have footprints that cover all the mainland state capitals, AND AFL, Cricket & A-League have Sydney AND Melbourne derbies as well - however if we aggressively expand to catch-up, we're going to have some really weak teams for half a decade (or more) as the player base is stretched so thinly.
 
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Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Precisely.. if the NRL decides that 16 clubs (or 18.. or even 20) is an upper limit on what they can afford to run/willing to run, then there's got to be some serious questions asked about the saturation of teams in Sydney - because there's potentially more profitable prospects elsewhere.

If we capitalise on all the big opportunities we have for expansion, plus keeping all the remaining teams - we're easily looking at 20 clubs.. maybe even mid 20s.

With the current competition running to 25 rounds, that could be up to 26 clubs with everyone playing everyone else just the once - is that even feasible?

Added to that, Basketball, AFL, Cricket & A-league all have footprints that cover all the mainland state capitals, AND AFL, Cricket & A-League have Sydney AND Melbourne derbies as well - however if we aggressively expand to catch-up, we're going to have some really weak teams for half a decade (or more) as the player base is stretched so thinly.

Positive and progressive tact. More rugby league= more players= more presence=more fans= more turnover.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Why did the club move away and change their name from the eastern suburbs??

The scare mongering media talk got a few Sydney clubs trying to capture more market. Little did they know that the market share they had was due to their name and presence. Mistakes were made : Sydney City Roosters & Sydney Roosters . To reinforce existing longtime time support and more accurately convey the club's locality : East Sydney Roosters should be used.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
I came up with the perfect rationalisation plan!!!

What the NRL should do is relocate the Roosters to Adelaide, then Stallion will give up on the game and pick up AFL/RU as his favourite sport, we can go back to talking about expansion in the expansion sub-forum instead of just his tired talking points, and everybody is happy!
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
I came up with the perfect rationalisation plan!!!

What the NRL should do is relocate the Roosters to Adelaide, then Stallion will give up on the game and pick up AFL/RU as his favourite sport, we can go back to talking about expansion in the expansion sub-forum instead of just his tired talking points, and everybody is happy!

Showing your destructive traits again!
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
See even you will be happy.

Just think you’ll be able to partake in your favourite past time of telling the NRL and everybody else how “destructive” and evil they are until the end of your days!

It’s absolutely perfect!

Lol. You are a fraud! Constantly out to whiteant this great competition.
 

tri_colours

Juniors
Messages
1,923
I think the hypothetical debate is IF the nrl, for whatever the reason, feels it can’t or won’t expand beyond 16 (or longer term 18) clubs then what? Stay as we are or do something drastic with Sydney.

But your right if they had crowds of 20k plus, but they don’t and it’s unlikely some ever will.

So if it comes down to crowds , What? Canberra or Gold Coast? you reckon?
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,510
So if it comes down to crowds , What? Canberra or Gold Coast?

Of the regular venues used last year Brookvale, Campbelltown, Canberra, Cronulla and Wollongong all had worse averages than the Gold Coast (in that order from worst up). ANZ's was only 200 better.

Titans have many problems they need to work through but it's a myth they have the worst crowds in the game.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,055
Of the regular venues used last year Brookvale, Campbelltown, Canberra, Cronulla and Wollongong all had worse averages than the Gold Coast (in that order from worst up). ANZ's was only 200 better.

Titans have many problems they need to work through but it's a myth they have the worst crowds in the game.
I wouldn't use Campbelltown as an example as they only have 3 games a year there, and wollongong has roughly 4-5 games, but the others have no excuses really, being that they are fulltime based
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,551
So if it comes down to crowds , What? Canberra or Gold Coast? you reckon?

Crowds are just one part of the equation, it wouldn't JUST come down to crowds but there is no doubt if you are drawing 20k plus crowds there is little chance or need for you to relocate. If there were two clubs in Canberra or GC drawing low crowds then you might have a point for relocating one of them.

7 Sydney clubs played in Sydney this weekend to a total attendance of just 47k people.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,551
ln all the talk about the expansion of our game seems to have a theme to it – a theme that is a mistake.
It makes sense why this theme exists, within the virtual echo chamber of nostalgia and bias that is rugby league.
But if we want to truly grow our game, we need to smash this bubble, at least from headquarters’ perspective.
The theme I’m alluding to is that Sydney rugby league is the game, the cliched DNA, ‘where it all started’, all of it.
For some reason, the mouthpieces of league in Sydney’s media are constantly telling us that the traditions of the Sydney suburban competition need to be preserved in the national competition.
This is absolute rubbish.
Those traditions belong to the state competition they started in. The game is and always has been bigger than the competition in Sydney.
True expansion of our game will not be achieved by telling everyone else to play Sydney’s game.
It can only be achieved by making the game everyone else’s game to play.
It’s achieved by sharing ownership of the national competition equally with those who might be new to it.
For far too long we’ve heard how we need to protect and consolidate rugby league in Sydney.
Why?
Those traditions don’t belong to the NRL, they don’t belong to anyone who cares about the game from outside of Sydney and they certainly don’t belong to anyone we might be trying to attract to our game, to truly expand it.
The NRL started in 1998, not 1908.
Some clubs started in 1908 and deserve to be congratulated for their longevity, for having teams compete in the NSWRL competition then also fielding teams in the NRL.
The NSWRL should be remembered for being a strong competition.
But the attempt to say they are the same competition is false and our game will be improved dramatically by altering this mentality.
It may feel good for Sydney fans, and keep them interested in the game, to tell them that this comp is the same as the one they used to follow.
It may have been necessary for the NRL to market themselves that way to ease Sydney fans across to a competition that was no longer solely run by ex-Sydney league players for the Sydney market.
That time has now passed.
We need to be a proper national competition or the game will slide even further behind the competitions that truly embraced the idea of a national competition.
There is a big difference between the NRL and the old ‘pies and tinnies on the hill at suburban grounds’.
There is a big difference between suburban rivalries and whole city rivalries. It’s still tribalism, just bigger.
All those sources of nostalgia still exist – they’re in the state competitions.
I still love going down the road and watching my local team play in the Intrust Super Cup while sitting on the hill.
Just because a suburban Sydney club isn’t in the national competition, that doesn’t mean they’re dead. That doesn’t mean that a region is unrepresented.
They’re just in the NSW competition where they started.
When we think of expansion, we need to think about truly expanding our game to people who will never have any skin in the game if we try to force one portion of the game’s history onto them.
How can a new league fan in Perth relate to a rivalry that started on the other side of the continent?
We need to create the best possible product for the future, and that means reducing the number of clubs in Sydney.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/04/07/the-nrl-must-forget-its-suburban-sydney-past/
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,957
Crowds are just one part of the equation, it wouldn't JUST come down to crowds but there is no doubt if you are drawing 20k plus crowds there is little chance or need for you to relocate. If there were two clubs in Canberra or GC drawing low crowds then you might have a point for relocating one of them.

7 Sydney clubs played in Sydney this weekend to a total attendance of just 47k people.

Frankly when crowds are brought up they are a total red herring these days.

When you boil it down the only things that really matter when it comes to discussions about expansion or the make up of a competition are the clubs value to broadcasters, streamers, sponsors, and advertisers, and whether or not the club is sustainable, bringing crowds into it is just an attempt to distract from the real issues at hand.

So yeah, there're very few top tier professional clubs that are surviving off gate takings these days, in the modern market crowd numbers effectively mean nothing. Don't get me wrong they are nice to have, but sports clubs can not only survive but thrive without them.

The only reason that crowds are talked about so much in Australia at all is because of dick measuring by AFL types.
 

tri_colours

Juniors
Messages
1,923
Just asking out of curiosity. This might not be the right thread . But besides your own team , how many NRL games do people watch of a weekend?
 

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