Rationalisation of Sydney

[titoelcolombiano]

What a load of vitriolic crap.The NRL wouldn't exist had it not been for the Sydney clubs capturing a bigger audience in the 70s, 80s & 90s. This matters! It gives the competition credibility and its longevity.

It could be argued that the makeup of the present day national comp from 1988 onwards would have been very different if poker machines weren't outlawed in Queensland until 1992. You may find that the game would have opted for a mix of strong Sydney clubs, strong QRL clubs and then added Newcastle (no Broncos or Gold Coast Tweed Seagulls).

If poker machine revenue had been available to the likes of Redcliffe, Ipswich and the Brisbane QRL clubs in the 80's (Souths Magpies in particular) there would have been a fairly even talent spread accross the two leagues and the larger QLD clubs would have been in a much stronger financial position.

 

[Perth Red]

Standing ovation!

It's important to ensure we dont weaken the game in Sydney in our attempt to strengthen it but if you keep doing the same things the same way you'd be pretty stupid to expect anything different.
We have about 8 years now of stagnation of crowds, club football generated revenue and general interest in the game. We need to find some solutions long term both for the games health in Sydney and nationally growing it, its the only way we wont become the second tier football code in the country. When we talk about how future TV revenue may decrease, we have to understand that TV may have a tough choice between paying for sport A or sport B. If we arent the chosen sport we are screwed. At the moment there is only one football code with clubs in every major capital city.

I totally understand if it was my club on the chopping block how devastating that would be, trust me I've been there, but from a dispassionate non conflicted viewpoint we cant just stay the same.

 

[Shark62]

It's important to ensure we dont weaken the game in Sydney in our attempt to strengthen it but if you keep doing the same things the same way you'd be pretty stupid to expect anything different.
We have about 8 years now of stagnation of crowds, club football generated revenue and general interest in the game. We need to find some solutions long term both for the games health in Sydney and nationally growing it, its the only way we wont become the second tier football code in the country. When we talk about how future TV revenue may decrease, we have to understand that TV may have a tough choice between paying for sport A or sport B. If we arent the chosen sport we are screwed. At the moment there is only one football code with clubs in every major capital city.

I totally understand if it was my club on the chopping block how devastating that would be, trust me I've been there, but from a dispassionate non conflicted viewpoint we cant just stay the same.

completely agree!

 

[Stallion]

It could be argued that the makeup of the present day national comp from 1988 onwards would have been very different if poker machines weren't outlawed in Queensland until 1992. You may find that the game would have opted for a mix of strong Sydney clubs, strong QRL clubs and then added Newcastle (no Broncos or Gold Coast Tweed Seagulls).

If poker machine revenue had been available to the likes of Redcliffe, Ipswich and the Brisbane QRL clubs in the 80's (Souths Magpies in particular) there would have been a fairly even talent spread accross the two leagues and the larger QLD clubs would have been in a much stronger financial position.

It can be argued to eternity however it's a crap argument. Just for the record. Forget the poker machine crap. These clubs in Sydney were not supported because they had plenty of pokies. They were genuinely attracted to the public at large. And this attraction still goes on today. Only some ignorant contributors do not understand this. To their discredit and loss!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It can be argued to eternity however it's a crap argument. Just for the record. Forget the poker machine crap. These clubs in Sydney were not supported because they had plenty of ponies. They were genuinely attracted to the public at large. And this attraction still goes on today. Only some ignorant contributors do not understand this. To their discredit and loss!

The BRL and clubs were very well supported too prior to the Broncos. Had they the finances to retain the QLD talent that was pouring over the border for the money then you would find the current NRL landscape would be slightly different.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It's important to ensure we dont weaken the game in Sydney in our attempt to strengthen it but if you keep doing the same things the same way you'd be pretty stupid to expect anything different.
We have about 8 years now of stagnation of crowds, club football generated revenue and general interest in the game. We need to find some solutions long term both for the games health in Sydney and nationally growing it, its the only way we wont become the second tier football code in the country. When we talk about how future TV revenue may decrease, we have to understand that TV may have a tough choice between paying for sport A or sport B. If we arent the chosen sport we are screwed. At the moment there is only one football code with clubs in every major capital city.

I totally understand if it was my club on the chopping block how devastating that would be, trust me I've been there, but from a dispassionate non conflicted viewpoint we cant just stay the same.

My preference is for all existing clubs along with the game as a whole to be strong and viable and then we add to that. My only concern is when clubs are consistently performing poorly off the field (finances, governance, reach, memberships, crowds) and taking up limited places in the top teir that can be used to expand the geographical and financial footprint of the game.

 

[flippikat]

It could be argued that the makeup of the present day national comp from 1988 onwards would have been very different if poker machines weren't outlawed in Queensland until 1992. .

Precisely.

If Queensland clubs had that income stream, they could have fended off some of the big money offers for their best talent.. and talent draws crowds.

It's a sheer fluke of historical gambling laws that we're in this lopsided mess.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Precisely.

If Queensland clubs had that income stream, they could have fended off some of the big money offers for their best talent.. and talent draws crowds.

It's a sheer fluke of historical gambling laws that we're in this lopsided mess.

I agree. If that were the case and we were to create a new national comp in 1988 instead of adding to the NSW Cup, I'd imagine we would have had a comp that looked a little like this:

South Brisbane Magpies (remember those star studded sides of the 80's coached by Bennett)
Ipswich Jets
Redcliffe Dolphins
Newcastle Knights
Manly
North Sydney
South Sydney
East Sydney Roosters
St George Dragons
Cronulla Sharks
Penrith Panthers
Balmain Tigers
Parramatta Eels
Canterbury Bulldogs
Canberra Raiders

in 1995:
add WA Reds
add Auckland Warriors

in 1998:
add Melbourne Storm
add North QLD Cowboys
Balmain relegated to NSW Cup due to financial issues

in 2007:
merge North Sydney with Burleigh and the Gold Coast Bears enter the NRL

In 2012:
Wellington and Christchurch added to the NSW Cup in conjunction with development in the NZ domestic league to create better professional pathways. Both clubs are viewed as future expansion clubs when the time and finances are right for the NRL.

in 2017:
Manly relocate to Adelaide due to financial issues

• 18 teams total
• 5 from QLD
• 9 NSW/ACT clubs - only 7 in Sydney
• Roosters become the club of the affluent areas of Sydney's north and east
• Bears and Manly brands remain in the NRL
• Every state / territory in Australia represented except NT & Tas
• PNG, Fiji & NZ provided quality pathways through the second teir
• Ground work done in NZ ready to expand further when the time is right

 

[Stallion]

My preference is for all existing clubs along with the game as a whole to be strong and viable and then we add to that. My only concern is when clubs are consistently performing poorly off the field (finances, governance, reach, memberships, crowds) and taking up limited places in the top teir that can be used to expand the geographical and financial footprint of the game.

A positive attitude would surmise that the two or (in time) four additional clubs would provide extra revenue. But glad you can see the merit in maintaining pre existing fanbases. The logic behind my continued recommendation of the Central Coast Bears is purely to do with an existing supporters base being axed as well as the resultant decline of the code in Northern Sydney including Manly. The CBD of North Sydney and the footy starved Central Coast area would benefit the code in juniors and revenue.

 

[Shark62]

A positive attitude would surmise that the two or (in time) four additional clubs would provide extra revenue. But glad you can see the merit in maintaining pre existing fanbases. The logic behind my continued recommendation of the Central Coast Bears is purely to do with an existing supporters based being axed as well as the resultant decline of the code in Northern Sydney including Manly. The CBD of North Sydney and the footy starved Central Coast area would benefit the code in juniors and revenue.

You want to bring back the Bears? I hadn’t realised this!

 

[TheFrog]

I agree. If that were the case and we were to create a new national comp in 1988 instead of adding to the NSW Cup, I'd imagine we would have had a comp that looked a little like this:

AS if they would have booted the Steelers out in '88 after just 6 seasons.

 

[flippikat]

AS if they would have booted the Steelers out in '88 after just 6 seasons.

Just as they were about to hit form, yeah?

 

[Diesel]

It could be argued that the makeup of the present day national comp from 1988 onwards would have been very different if poker machines weren't outlawed in Queensland until 1992. You may find that the game would have opted for a mix of strong Sydney clubs, strong QRL clubs and then added Newcastle (no Broncos or Gold Coast Tweed Seagulls).

If poker machine revenue had been available to the likes of Redcliffe, Ipswich and the Brisbane QRL clubs in the 80's (Souths Magpies in particular) there would have been a fairly even talent spread accross the two leagues and the larger QLD clubs would have been in a much stronger financial position.

I agree but my only question how would the comp look if we had Easts Tigers, Balmain Taigers, Western Suburbs Magpies, Souths Magpies, NS Bears and Burleigh Bears, Wests Panthers, Penrith Panthers. Some NSWRL and QRL teams would have to lose their nicknames or perhaps would have to merge with exisiting QRL or NSWRL clubs. Things would’ve looked very different and probably for the better

 

[flippikat]

I agree but my only question how would the comp look if we had Easts Tigers, Balmain Taigers, Western Suburbs Magpies, Souths Magpies, NS Bears and Burleigh Bears, Wests Panthers, Penrith Panthers. Some NSWRL and QRL teams would have to lose their nicknames or perhaps would have to merge with exisiting QRL or NSWRL clubs. Things would’ve looked very different and probably for the better

There probably would have been some oversight by an ARL committee to steer the formation of the new top-tier - deciding on things like nickname double-ups and jersey clashes.

To be honest, the way the competition has evolved since 1998 has been horribly ad-hoc.

 

[Diesel]

The team colours for Tigers & Magpies matched so there would’ve been likely inter-city or inter-state mergers. While the Panthers based in Brisbane was red & black which appear on Penrith’s jersey.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

AS if they would have booted the Steelers out in '88 after just 6 seasons.

If they took a national vision of the game in 1988, they would have probably realised that the Wollongong region can not support a full-time team (as it most likely can't today). Remember under this proposal, we are not booting anyone from any comp.

We are taking the strongest clubs from the NSW Cup and QLD Cup and promoting them to a newly created NRL. So the Steelers would just stay in the NSW Cup where they were.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I agree but my only question how would the comp look if we had Easts Tigers, Balmain Taigers, Western Suburbs Magpies, Souths Magpies, NS Bears and Burleigh Bears, Wests Panthers, Penrith Panthers. Some NSWRL and QRL teams would have to lose their nicknames or perhaps would have to merge with exisiting QRL or NSWRL clubs. Things would’ve looked very different and probably for the better

In the list of clubs (above) the Wests Magpies didn't make the NRL comp but the South Brisbane Magpies did, the Easts Tigers remained in the Q Cup and Balmain were accepted to the NRL, Burleigh Bears remained in Q Cup and Norths Bears were accepted into the NRL, Wests Panthers in Brisbane stopped being a state-league team a long time ago but if they managed to survive they wouldn't have made the NRL cut so there were no clashes.

 

[siv]

In 1982 they wanted Illawarra and Newcastle

In 1988 they wanted Brisbane

In 1995 they wanted Auckland

While we have wanted Campbelltwon since 1970s and Victoria since the 1930s

In 1982 when Newcastle didnt want in we would have been fine when Newtown fell over in 1983

Then in 1988 it could have been a simple Canberra / Brisbane entry

In 1995 it should have been a simple 2 team entry of Auckland and Nth Qld

That would have been 16 teams

But expansion into Brisbane was always going to be a issue as the #2 national comp. Regional team or promotion. The question still remains today with Brisbane 2

That would have allowed as natural expansion to Melbourne and Perth

 

[Vee]

See above.

Oh, you've met My Little Pony?

 

[Shark62]

Oh, you've met My Little Pony?

Yes sadly.