Rationalisation of Sydney

[Perth Red]

They are not in debt now.With money in the Bank est to be $18m, as a result of the finalisation of the development ,leaving the retail rental to the developers, leaving the ground for a couple of years so the developer can get work done quicker, and get a new Leagues club and any losses in the couple of years they are away from the ground covered by the developer.
Developers move in for the retail stage,that also includes 200 units ,and a hotel.

Leagues club paid for out of the $40 m they get from the developer ,as well as debt up to end of 2019.
Third biggest junior numbers in Sydney I understand.

I can see a new Norths scenario. If Sharks fans wont travel to watch games at Shark Park what hope they'll go to Kogorah for games? I hope they have invested that money wisely!

 

[Stallion]

So why are you constantly pushing the agenda that the Shute Shield is a threat to RL?

By diluting the top flight clubs in Sydney gives other codes an invitation to gain disaffected rugby league fans and more relevance in other codes competitions as witnessed with what is happening in northern Sydney with the Shute Shield crowds. It's happening and some still can't / won't work it out!

 

[Walter sobchak]

What’s the general consensus on here about the maximum number of teams competing in the NRL competition? 18? 20?

 

[Perth Red]

How are the Cowboys any more successful than the Knights and Raiders?

Knights have been bankrupt, twice.
Raiders have traditionally drawn small crowds

Cowboys seem to be financially sustainable and have a decent attendance.

 

[Perth Red]

MacArthur FC have only just recently been accepted into the A-league haven’t they? So a potential stadium upgrade becomes a little bit more appealing. No?

Councils in Aus dont have the hundreds of millions stadium upgrades require. And NSW Govt isnt going to be spending big chinks on suburban stadiums for many years to come after the splurge and fall out from the latest investments. So who do you think will pay for a Campbelltown upgrade?

 

[Perth Red]

What’s the general consensus on here about the maximum number of teams competing in the NRL competition? 18? 20?

Ideally 16 with 4 new teams and 4 removed or relocated. But wont happen so its grow number of clubs or remain stagnant. I doubt we will ever see a 20 team comp again.

 

[mongoose]

Knights have been bankrupt, twice.
Raiders have traditionally drawn small crowds

Cowboys seem to be financially sustainable and have a decent attendance.

Knights draw bigger crowds than Cowboys though and I reckon the Raiders are wealthier than them. Knights and Raiders also big junior developers.

 

[Perth Red]

Knights draw bigger crowds than Cowboys though and I reckon the Raiders are wealthier than them. Knights and Raiders also big junior developers.

Each has their own strengths but some significant weaknesses, Cowboys seem to be generally successful in all areas. Like I said Knights, despite large fanbase, have financially struggled for years and even now are only solvent due to pokies taking over. Raiders, despite plenty of money, have traditionally drawn crowds at the lower end of the attendance chart. Titans are a basket case all round, Wollongong had to merge, Gosford didnt last. Its not a great track record for regional teams and Id say it is only getting harder as clubs require $30mill plus revenue to compete.
I'd say the Cowboys are the only regional club that has ticked most boxes well.

 

[flippikat]

Ideally 16 with 4 new teams and 4 removed or relocated. But wont happen so its grow number of clubs or remain stagnant. I doubt we will ever see a 20 team comp again.

I think what will likely happen is 18 teams with the next TV rights cycle to squeeze a better deal out of the networks - with their wallets tightening, an extra game plus a late night timeslot (ie Pirates home games) will do that.

After that, I can't see any rise from 18.. it'll take relocation or collapse of a club to open new expansion frontiers from then on.

 

[Stallion]

It’s very clear and mathematics?
Ignoring the awful England give us some examples of this clear maths.

This has been stated before : Over 6 million people located from the ILLAWARRA through Sydney and outskirts to the Central Coast. The figure divided by 9 top flight clubs is over 650000 per club. The populations of Canberra (300000?) Newcastle (400000?) all sustain a top flight club. Haven't even mentioned the multitudes that follow such clubs outside of there localities. This would amount to 100000s plus around Australia etc. So your mathematics cannot work out that their is no oversaturation of this renowned competition in the region you describe as being 'over saturated " . A win /win case for the Central Coast Bears is extremely valid given the damage being done to Australia's premier rugby league football competition in recent times.

 

[Walter sobchak]

Councils in Aus dont have the hundreds of millions stadium upgrades require. And NSW Govt isnt going to be spending big chinks on suburban stadiums for many years to come after the splurge and fall out from the latest investments. So who do you think will pay for a Campbelltown upgrade?

No idea. Just going by articles I’ve read about the MacAthur bulls FC.

A combination of government funding and private funding from both the bulls and wests?

 

[Pommy]

This has been stated before : Over 6 million people located from the ILLAWARRA through Sydney and outskirts to the Central Coast. The figure divided by 9 top flight clubs is over 650000 per club. The populations of Canberra (300000?) Newcastle (400000?) all sustain a top flight club. Haven't even mentioned the multitudes that follow such clubs outside of there localities. This would amount to 100000s plus around Australia etc. So your mathematics cannot work out that their is no oversaturation of this renowned competition in the region you describe as being 'over saturated " . A win /win case for the Central Coast Bears is extremely valid given.the damage being done to Australia's premier rugby league football competition in recent weeks times.

So Sydney has a club for every 650,000 people whilst the rest of Australia has one for every 3,278,533.33. You’re totally winning the maths argument.

 

[mongoose]

Each has their own strengths but some significant weaknesses, Cowboys seem to be generally successful in all areas. Like I said Knights, despite large fanbase, have financially struggled for years and even now are only solvent due to pokies taking over. Raiders, despite plenty of money, have traditionally drawn crowds at the lower end of the attendance chart. Titans are a basket case all round, Wollongong had to merge, Gosford didnt last. Its not a great track record for regional teams and Id say it is only getting harder as clubs require $30mill plus revenue to compete.
I'd say the Cowboys are the only regional club that has ticked most boxes well.

Fair enough. The Raiders crowd problem is partly due to weather, Canberra being the coldest city in the country in winter. The stadium doesn't offer much protection from the elements either. Canberra also isn't a traditional League heartland. It was probably more of an AFL city up until the 80s and even today its probably still full of expats from Victoria who have moved there for work. League is big in Canberra but the whole town isn't League mad like Newcastle and Townsville.

 

[flippikat]

So Sydney has a club for every 650,000 people whilst the rest of Australia has one for every 3,278,533.33. You’re totally winning the maths argument.

Cool. We have 4.7 million people here in New Zealand.

On that "population to clubs" ratio, when do we get our 6 extra NRL teams?

We'll have one in Hamilton, one in Wellington, one in Christchurch, one in the Bay of Plenty, one in Dunedin (gotta use that flash covered stadium), and a 2nd Auckland team to give the Warriors some cross-town rivalry, thanks very much.

Cheers Sydney for letting us know our rights. ;-)

 

[Stallion]

So Sydney has a club for every 650,000 people whilst the rest of Australia has one for every 3,278,533.33. You’re totally winning the maths argument.

Lol. You failed to acknowledge historical and generational relevance of established clubs . Which takes time! Alot of time! If you don't think that is an advantage in a very competitive sports market : you are truelly missing the point! You also failed to acknowledge the tyrrany of distance for a country the size of Australia and population density which applies to Sydney (Australia's rugby-league capital)

 

[Stallion]

What’s the general consensus on here about the maximum number of teams competing in the NRL competition? 18? 20?

20

 

[Pommy]

Lol. You failed to acknowledge historical and generational relevance of established clubs . Which takes time! Alot of time! If you don't think that is an advantage in a very competitive sports market : you are truelly missing the point! You also failed to acknowledge the tyrrany of distance for a country the size of Australia and population density which applies to Sydney (Australia's rugby-league capital)

No you said that the maths was on your side, it isn’t.
These are totally unrelated to the maths.

 

[Stallion]

Cool. We have 4.7 million people here in New Zealand.

On that "population to clubs" ratio, when do we get our 6 extra NRL teams?

We'll have one in Hamilton, one in Wellington, one in Christchurch, one in the Bay of Plenty, one in Dunedin (gotta use that flash covered stadium), and a 2nd Auckland team to give the Warriors some cross-town rivalry, thanks very much.

Cheers Sydney for letting us know our rights. ;-)

It's a pipe dream in NZ. Little rugby league presence in schools all over that nation. Even in Auckland rugby league playing schools are low in number. The establishment in NZ is not conducive to a higher number of NRL clubs. Maybe one if they let their kids play some rugbyleague in the local schools!

 

[Stallion]

Fair enough. The Raiders crowd problem is partly due to weather, Canberra being the coldest city in the country in winter. The stadium doesn't offer much protection from the elements either. Canberra also isn't a traditional League heartland. It was probably more of an AFL city up until the 80s and even today its probably still full of expats from Victoria who have moved there for work. League is big in Canberra but the whole town isn't League mad like Newcastle and Townsville.

Rugby league in Canberra is number 1 football code. And is getting bigger with a great footy side that is doing the right things in the local. community.

 

[Stallion]

No you said that the maths was on your side, it isn’t.
These are totally unrelated to the maths.

The mathematics certainly is related. In your strange way you have refused to also acknowledge important factors such as club locality distances, population density and years of generational support. All absolutely mathematically related! Stop being a pest!