Rationalisation of Sydney

[titoelcolombiano]

It's more than just crowds we should be discussing . It's community relevance and various other forms of support like merchandising, viewership, general familiarity of well known clubs. .....etc. Btw.

Awesome, then show me the numbers you have to back your claim that the Sydney rivalies outdo the ones I mentioned.

The Brisbane crowds are noticeably dropping compared to previous seasons.!

The Broncos are no different to any other team when it comes to the factors that cause their crowds to drop. Thursday night football and lack of relative success have played their part but to be honest, they averaged 30k in 2005 and average 29.5k this year so it's not really as dramatic as you are making it out to be.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Id say the expansions clubs, namely brisbane and melbourne and probably warriors, beat out the sydney clubs in most of these as well, Storm are up there with crowds and memberships, are aiming for 50k members in the next 10 or 15 years, Brisbane as we all know are easily on top of both of those, Storm are the most viewed on fox, and have the largest social media following in the NRL and second most of all australia sports clubs (or so they claim, ive posted the article on other threads before)

Yep

 

[Perth Red]

I have to agree, the impression I get is Perth is a more cosmopolitan city toward other sports than Melbourne media print and electronic.
Despite the fact you and I have the usual donnybrook re rationalisation,I've always believed a team in Perth is essential.

No question the contras with AFL helps them spread their "dirty" word in the Nthn states.In fact back in the court case Optus v News Ltd.it prior SL ,it was stated then that an arrangement between the AFL and News for favourable coverage in the North ,was not openly stated.
And TBH the extra loot the AFL got from the last TV deal ,sticks out with all the promos over the last couple of years.

My company has a deal with the newspaper that if we take out some adverts over the course of the year they will put in stories and we have a column that we can use in the paper. I have no idea why the NRL does not do this in Melbourne. Pay for Melbourne Storm and Origin etc adverts and in return get 3 good news stories a week in the paper. Its a great investment to help raise awareness and interest in the game.

 

[Perth Red]

Awesome, then show me the numbers you have to back your claim that the Sydney rivalies outdo the ones I mentioned.



The Broncos are no different to any other team when it comes to the factors that cause their crowds to drop. Thursday night football and lack of relative success have played their part but to be honest, they averaged 30k in 2005 and average 29.5k this year so it's not really as dramatic as you are making it out to be.

TBh their ticket pricing when it comes to jnrs and families is outrageous and is a clear reason why they cant sell those extra 15-20k seats a game. For the amount of money they have they dont need to be fleecing kids for that much money to watch the game.

 

[Stallion]

Does it really matter what their catchment is?, they are Sydney clubs and should be appealing to people all over sydney, not just in their catchment zone. The Sydney clubs that can play out of centralized stadiums will be the ones the NRL won't want to move I would think.

No need to move any! Expansion can occur with established clubs in place. Simple as that . But not for some in the whiteant brigade!

 

[Stallion]

Awesome, then show me the numbers you have to back your claim that the Sydney rivalies outdo the ones I mentioned.



The Broncos are no different to any other team when it comes to the factors that cause their crowds to drop. Thursday night football and lack of relative success have played their part but to be honest, they averaged 30k in 2005 and average 29.5k this year so it's not really as dramatic as you are making it out to be.

What were last years figures seeing as you have selectively picked out one year from a possible 30 year plus period?

 

[MrE_Assassin]

I think he was talking about fan attachment by region rather than Jnr development?
NRL clubs should have nothing to do with Jnr development other than sending along players to training and registration sessions to excite the kids IMO
It should be well funded grassroots programs and elite Jnr programs though a combination of state body funding and LC's where applicable. NRL should be subsidising regos and kit, they've done a good job with having start up and other grants available to Jnr clubs. Speaking for WA we desperately need more DO's and funding to grow our schools program. Jnr RL is really growing and whenever we get a DO for a new area we are seeing Jnr clubs popping up and participation increasing.

it's been mentioned how proactive AFL is in reaching kids in Sydney, NRL needs to get much much better. NS should have had a major Jnr development strategy in place to balance out the loss of the Bears and then we wouldnt have seen the attrition in the area we have. If we cut other Sydney clubs it will be imperative that their is a kids engagement strategy to counter balance the loss of the club.

Haha, sorry, my mistake. I see thing like that and automatically think it’s the juniors debate for moving clubs.

Although tbh, I think the map is pretty poor as a fan catchment area representation as well, as clubs should be appealing to a national market, not just their own backyard, if they truly want to expand the game’s footprint.

I lived in Brisbane for a number of years and was surprised at how many South Sydney stickers I saw on the back window of cars. I’ve met loads of people in QLD who are fans of Sydney clubs having never actually lived in the location themselves... but they have some fond memory that drives them to love that club, but the membership, etc.

I think looking at it from a purely location based argument for attracting fans is narrow-minded. Sure it forms the base but a club should be thinking of national appeal and this comes from their on field success, players/personalities in the club and their engagement in areas outside their “catchment area”.

 

[Perth Red]

Same in Perth, Souths are by far the best supported club. Probably a combination of Russell Crowe coolness and the effort they put into Perth over last few years. After that its probably Warriors, Broncos and Storm support. Dragons and Dogs would be next and a surprising number of Cowboy fans. Whilst this nation wide support is good, its the amount of local fans who buy memberships and attend games that are the high revenue value for a club. Some clubs like Souths and Dogs have managed to break away from being limited to attracting fans from a small area and have city wide appeal now but others are still very much stuck in geographical isolation and are drawing paying customers from a relatively small catchment.

 

[Stallion]

Awesome, then show me the numbers you have to back your claim that the Sydney rivalies outdo the ones I mentioned.



The Broncos are no different to any other team when it comes to the factors that cause their crowds to drop. Thursday night football and lack of relative success have played their part but to be honest, they averaged 30k in 2005 and average 29.5k this year so it's not really as dramatic as you are making it out to be.

You honestly think a successful Sydney NRL club (whom are known Australia wide) would not rival the clubs you speak of in merchandising! ? You are truelly dumber than I suspected! Are you aware that Coles Supermarkets sell NRL items? Do you understand that this would necessarily make its way back to the NRL? ( Maybe I'm presuming something like an income flow to the NRL or its clubs with such product sales? ) Regardless this adds to the value of these widely known established clubs. You think not!? You are clearly not thinking!

 

[MugaB]

I think he was talking about fan attachment by region rather than Jnr development?
NRL clubs should have nothing to do with Jnr development other than sending along players to training and registration sessions to excite the kids IMO
It should be well funded grassroots programs and elite Jnr programs though a combination of state body funding and LC's where applicable. NRL should be subsidising regos and kit, they've done a good job with having start up and other grants available to Jnr clubs. Speaking for WA we desperately need more DO's and funding to grow our schools program. Jnr RL is really growing and whenever we get a DO for a new area we are seeing Jnr clubs popping up and participation increasing.

it's been mentioned how proactive AFL is in reaching kids in Sydney, NRL needs to get much much better. NS should have had a major Jnr development strategy in place to balance out the loss of the Bears and then we wouldnt have seen the attrition in the area we have. If we cut other Sydney clubs it will be imperative that their is a kids engagement strategy to counter balance the loss of the club.

/\ THIS /\

 

[MugaB]

Does it really matter what their catchment is?, they are Sydney clubs and should be appealing to people all over sydney, not just in their catchment zone. The Sydney clubs that can play out of centralized stadiums will be the ones the NRL won't want to move I would think.

Im also saying the 3 teams moved elsewhere (being Dragons, Roosters, Bunnies) that would not lose a geographical footprint to other codes

Wests are fairly large, aswell as Penrith, Canterbury and Parramatta are spread out mid range, and even though manly aren't actually representing that whole north shore, they one day can, aswell as cronulla taking on more above them.

This should be our footprint, by moving on the 3 clubs i mentioned before.
Wollongong dragons, South Brisbane Rabbitohs, Adelaide Roosters. This will benefit sydney in the long run, and open new markets, keep the 16 clubs, and expand with Perth, redcliffe, CC, NZ2.
Down the line.

The catchments are important for fan relevance, you want more crowds at campbelltown stadium, then you gotta be based there, take your bigger games to WSS, but dont train at concord, and play 3 games a year at campbelltown, and pretend you represent.
Be present in you catchment, the big stadiums won't prop up clubs in the future, rabbits and dogs share ANZ, fans hate t he venue, also looks terrible on tv being so empty, howz that going work for the future?

We cannot move souths, but leave easts in sydney or vice versa, gotta move them both,
They wouldn't team up if they were pushed by the NRL, best places to thrive seperately are brisbane where they want a 2nd team, and if we start fresh with a new franchise, it may tank like the titans, souths are well supported around Australia, and could very well survive abroad. Same with roosters, Adelaide needs to get Owned by NRL, Adelaide don't need NRL, we need that market/state more than they want us, and you cant send your worst club to take it, you gotta sent your best.
And the best is the roosters

 

[taipan]

My company has a deal with the newspaper that if we take out some adverts over the course of the year they will put in stories and we have a column that we can use in the paper. I have no idea why the NRL does not do this in Melbourne. Pay for Melbourne Storm and Origin etc adverts and in return get 3 good news stories a week in the paper. Its a great investment to help raise awareness and interest in the game.

Wouldn't argue with that point.I'd suggest though that the NRL and the Storm pay 50/50.Else the likes of clubs like the Warriors would be asking for extra pro funding.Certainly with semis coming up,teh storm should be promoted to get full houses there.

 

[Diesel]

Brisbane’s crowds this year is an accumulation of unfriendly timeslots for young families and children.
It’s been 12 years since Broncos regularly got Friday night games at the expensive of Saturday evening/night or Sunday arvo games. There are plenty of children at primary level in SEQ that have never been to a Broncos game yet are Broncos fans. With Brisbane 2 on the cards, hopefully this can be fixed

 

[mongoose]

Brisbane’s crowds this year is an accumulation of unfriendly timeslots for young families and children.
It’s been 12 years since Broncos regularly got Friday night games at the expensive of Saturday evening/night or Sunday arvo games. There are plenty of children at primary level in SEQ that have never been to a Broncos game yet are Broncos fans. With Brisbane 2 on the cards, hopefully this can be fixed

If most of the Broncos games were Sunday afternoon they would average closer to 40k, that time slot gives their crowd a big boost, like most Sydney clubs.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You honestly think a successful Sydney NRL club (whom are known Australia wide) would not rival the clubs you speak of in merchandising! ?

I don't have to think it, a quick look at the club financial reports will confirm that you are incorrect. Do you have other financial documents or sources that will show evidence to the contrary?

You are truelly dumber than I suspected! Are you aware that Coles Supermarkets sell NRL items? Do you understand that this would necessarily make its way back to the NRL? ( Maybe I'm presuming something like an income flow to the NRL or its clubs with such product sales? ) Regardless this adds to the value of these widely known established clubs. You think not!? You are clearly not thinking!

Show me the figures and I'm happy to stand corrected.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

What were last years figures seeing as you have selectively picked out one year from a possible 30 year plus period?

The point of using 2005 - 2019 was not to show that there has not been much decline in average crowds over that time period, a point that seems to have gone over your head.

Season average last year was 31,234

The Broncs first full season back at Suncorp was 2004. The average of their crowds over that time period is 32,248. Like all clubs, their season leans towards 35k when they are winning premierships or contending seriously for them and is closer to 30k when they are not, like now.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

TBh their ticket pricing when it comes to jnrs and families is outrageous and is a clear reason why they cant sell those extra 15-20k seats a game. For the amount of money they have they dont need to be fleecing kids for that much money to watch the game.

That sounds like the perfect argument for Brisbane 2 to me. The Broncos are getting away with 30k average crowds and high prices because the city is undersupplied with NRL games. You are correct, the prices are expensive but 30k at average of $50 a ticket returns more revenue than 52k (not guaranteed) at $25 a ticket.

Suncorp rental prices don't help either.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

.

 

[Perth Red]

That sounds like the perfect argument for Brisbane 2 to me. The Broncos are getting away with 30k average crowds and high prices because the city is undersupplied with NRL games. You are correct, the prices are expensive but 30k at average of $50 a ticket returns more revenue than 52k (not guaranteed) at $25 a ticket.

Suncorp rental prices don't help either.

Thing is at those prices they arent getting many kids in so any extra kids they get in are on top of what the adults are paying. I'm not saying slash all tickets, just family and jnrs and possibly 10k GA tickets so the mum and kids are coming along to fill the empty seats and people who cant afford $50 a seat.

 

[Perth Red]

I don't have to think it, a quick look at the club financial reports will confirm that you are incorrect. Do you have other financial documents or sources that will show evidence to the contrary?



Show me the figures and I'm happy to stand corrected.

Figures clearly show AFL clubs making a lot more than NRL clubs in merch sales. Last year WC Eagles $4.6mill compared to Parra Eels $700k in merch sales. Bigger fanbase = more merch sales. Same is true for diffewrent clubs in NRL. Some are selling three to four times more merch than others Not hard to understand even for someone of Stallions limited intellect.