Rationalisation of Sydney

Discussion in 'NRL Expansion' started by titoelcolombiano, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Stallion

    Stallion First Grade

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    Added further to this scenario is the rugby league can easily win back the lost fans and consolidate the northern Sydney region with a relatively easy to do Central Coast Bears! Add another Brisbane club and there is an 18 team comp with infrastructure and juniors pathways at the ready. Then more ambitious expansion with West Coast Pirates and perhaps NZ Wellington Orcas or Adelaide Dingoes. A twenty team comp with perhaps conferences involved? At least this scenario involves no whiteanting and pain for existing fans and welcomes new fans to the competition. That's genuine growth!
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 10:42 AM
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  2. LeagueXIII

    LeagueXIII Bench

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    Adelaide will tell you that....they aren't screaming out for a RL club.
     
  3. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    Neither was Perth in the early 2000's, took a lot of hard work, investment and clubs willing to bring games here to reignite the interest in the game and create the demand. Unless we get started on Adelaide it never will be crying out for a club, origin is the best kick start we can have there but it needs significant investment in the SANRL and 2-3 NRL games a year and some Govt lobby to start planning for Hindmarsh stadium upgrade. Get to work now and in 7-10 years it will be fertile for planting a new club in.

    If the Bears were going to partner with anywhere Adelaide would be the spot as they are the ones with the least infrastructure for RL and having the Bears on board would be a fast track in many ways.
     
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  4. TheFrog

    TheFrog Coach

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    Adelaide is a quarter the size of Melbourne, and just as much hostile territory. So expect a quarter of the Storm's crowds once it settles down. An Adelaide NRL club is a recipe for flushing money down the toilet, a la GWS but they have the money to throw away and we don't. Perth must be no better than borderline viable as well, but it does have a lot more Eastern states expats.
     
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  5. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    Thats a very simplistic analysis and on the rare occasions the Adelaide public have had the opportunity to attend a game crowds have been pretty reasonable. Like I said NRL has no god given right to fans, it has to work for them. There is no reason there arent 15-20k people in a city of 1.3million who who would actively support a club, if we are willing to put the work in. Given most heartland clubs have sub 15k crowds the bar really isnt set very high!
     
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  6. TheFrog

    TheFrog Coach

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    A game or two a year is quite different to 12 games a year. It's not my money being wasted but anyone can see the numbers don't stack up.

    The heartland clubs have fans who watch on TV and rarely attend games. This is what kept Melbourne afloat early on. If Adelaide could get 15k it would be close to viable, but what makes you think crowds as a percentage of population would be higher than Melbourne gets?
     
  7. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    ah that old argument, yes it is but it is the only metric we have, anything else us total supposition.

    When you say the numbers dont stack up, what numbers are you referring to?
     
  8. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    Exactly. The "AFL city" rhetoric is 1970s thinking that other sports (literally every one of them) abandoned long ago.
    The modern sports fan follows multiple sports from Australia, USA, England, and internationally. If there's no local team, teenagers will follow #1 AFL and #2 will be EPL, NBA, NFL.
    NRL can't match them for marketing or international fan service or cultural relevance, unless we are in the city.

    The AFL know they aren't going to "win" Sydney or Brisbane, not in our lifetimes, but they know they have to have skin in the game.
    Having a strong presence in every major city is far more important for the future of the sport than having a strong presence where your juniors came from in the past.
    We'll never win over Perth, Adelaide or Melbourne but we need to have NRL clubs based in those cities to ensure the sport has national significance in the coming decades.
     
  9. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    True but "lets wait and see what might happen" is not a very successful proactive strategy for growth as a rule! No sydney club has fallen over and in reality not really looked like doing so. With the massive grant increase they have and the football cap coming in its hard to see any of them will anytime soon. So we sit and wait 20 years in the hope one does?
     
  10. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    Lets assume the 130% grant stays.
    I still think the environment in the next few years will be driving a bigger gap between the financially highest performing and lowest performing clubs. The stadiums, the big city backing, the declining leagues club investment, the modern expectations of the new generation of fans.
    City clubs and the NRL will profit from this environment.

    There will come a time soon when the NRL needs to decide whether to use its surplus profits to invest in expansion locations, or sink it back into suburban parks and an even bigger club grant to keep certain clubs functioning day to day.
    We all know the correct answer but I'm worried V'landys will pander to the lowest common denominator.
     
  11. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    That's why Id expand but keep the extra content exclusive for NRL production on its digital channel, that way if and when some clubs fall over the NRL doesn't feel it has to bail them out to keep the TV contract in tact.
     
  12. flippikat

    flippikat Juniors

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    Perth also has a timezone in it's favour.

    If the NRL wants games kicking off at 9.30pm Eastern time on Saturday or Friday, then a Perth club is a must.

    There's possibly some TV rights money in that enhancement to the competition - even if it's a timeslot that's only available every few weeks.
     
  13. Stallion

    Stallion First Grade

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    Suggest they can do both: Consolidation and genuine expansion. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
     
  14. LeagueXIII

    LeagueXIII Bench

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    Perth at the time had a very vibrant rugby league community and plenty of expats. I recall their local grand final being on Perth TV, Belmont Steelers were one of the clubs. The game attracted 10,000 odd.
    Also this was done all before the AFL put in Freo and Port Adelaide.

    WA was also considered the third league state a fair way behind second though.

    Adelaide has a population that isn't growing, it's corporate dollar today is taken by the two AFL teamsand they still have a very strong local Aussie Rules competition. In terms of rugby league in Adelaide there is very little.

    By all means put a NSW Cup team in, and see where that goes to build the game and play the odd test and origin.
     
  15. LeagueXIII

    LeagueXIII Bench

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    If the NRL damage Sydney clubs, and ratings fall in Sydney we can kiss goodbye big TV deals from the stations. Sydney's ratings bring the big dollars.
     
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  16. Stallion

    Stallion First Grade

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    Ofcourse! The game can still grow . Implosion does not do the code any favours!
     
  17. MrE_Assassin

    MrE_Assassin Juniors

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    Oh, I agree with you completely on that. I never said it was a smart plan and it's definitely not what I would be doing if it were me in the job.... However, to date the NRL hasn't had the brightest ideas.... All I'm saying is that they could be using that wording for them to maintain the status quo.... which is no new teams, no relocation and no axing of old teams.... I suppose I'm trying to read between the lines of what Todd is saying.
     
  18. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    Sydneys ratings didn't fall last time a club was cut and others were merged.
    Sydneys ratings arent that great anyway tbh for the size of the city, our TV audience totals are very much reliant more on regionals in comparison to our competitors.
     
  19. tri_colours

    tri_colours Juniors

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    How do you know"? Accurate ratings are a relatively new thing.

    Sydney ratings may not be that good per capita, but there way better than anything else we have going for us.

    And every Sydney Team we Cut means less advertising opportunities for the network, less money for the NRL and less chance of expansion .

    Regional ratings are worth a lot less.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 3:48 PM
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  20. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    Proper TV ratings started in 1991 with Neilsen with the introduction of people meters.

    The reverse thinking of that is that a truly national competition is more attractive to advertisers and sponsors, hence why AFL does better in its corporate deals and media deals than our Sydney focused sport.

    Most Sydney tv audiences are in the 300-400k range, how many of those do you think we would lose if a team or two goes? Then how many more people in Brisbane might tune in (given they are already per person bigger viewer market) plus how many new viewers in Perth if the game was ever given the respect it was due by the FTA partner?

    Of course its all hypothetical as there really is no data to back up either argument.
     

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