Rd 17 TLT - Eels v Terrigal Warriors Sun 6.9.2020

[Glenneel]

The Warriors hired Brian Smith and Peter O'Sullivan to rebuild their club. Now they've got Gould. Kearney was just the coach. Nathan Brown will be just the coach as well. Winning requires resources, which translates to football department spending over a sustained period. The Warriors just haven't been doing it for long enough.

If Gould's role has nothing to do with coaching he'll be a good appointment, such as managing the footy club and organising their juniors, etc. If he starts interfering with Brown's coaching he'll cause chaos as he did at Penrith for 6-7 years.

 

[Glenneel]

No one is suggesting that there is no benefit mate. Again with the hyperbole. The point is that BA is a mediocre coach that has not hired the best quality support staff, rendering our team to be known as flat track bullies at best.

Therefore he has stayed mediocre and so far is proving to all the world to see that he likes to stay that way by not improving the quality of the people around him. If he is to insecure to hire the best to assist him prepare the team then that in itself shows us his shortcomings.

My real fear for the coming games is that we'll lose nearly all of them and limp into the finals only to limp out again. BA as a coach is wearing really thin with me giving me little confidence in his ability. After the Souths debacle he said it was an easy fix, as if this was the first sign that something was not working. We've been shit for close to 2 months now with nothing fixed. So unless his eyes are painted on how can he not see it? The 2 Blakes attack and defence has been horrible all year and still not fixed. And he still refuses to drop poor performing players so there's no accountability.

Good coaches don't have these traits, they're ruthless and expect, and get, quality performances even if they lose. Last year Bellamy suddenly dropped the incumbent fullback and bought in Papenhuyzen, who has reignited their attack, as well as dropping Brodie Croft as halfback for the finals. That didn't work out but as seen with the Broncos he is not a great halfback yet, but maybe one day. Same with Robinson, Flanagan dropped when everybody else thought he was going great. BA doesn't do that and sticks with his favourites regardless.

Our team's defence has as shownbeen poor for years and Kidwell, the defence coach, has been with us for years. This year the defence has improved, the stats say so, but has it really? When under pressure the same cracks open up. We're too compressed imo so quick shifts to the edges opens us up . Why does this happen? Do we have poor technique so have to compress so tightly to stop the opposition so exposing the edges? Our line speed in D at the beginning of the year was good but has dropped off imo allowing the better teams to exploit our edges. The Blakes defence has been diabolical all year yet nothing has changed all year. Not signs of a good coach, as they'd already have a different coach. But BA has shown he dislikes dropping players, and coaches apparently.

Our attack has faulted and there are many reasons I can see.
Mahoney just doesn't run any more,
our support play is poor,
Moses doesn't engage the line enough for me, to draw defenders in, before passing,
N Brown hardly passes any more, he had a good passing game close to the line at one stage. Now he prefers the big run play, a BA ploy? He'd be better off getting defenders interested and popping short balls to support players running thru holes,
lack of support for our edge forwards who are always looking to pop a ball,
general lack of genuine speed in our backline, all the good teams have this.
They are just some of the reasons that have developed as the year progressed. None fixed, but according to BA they're a easy fix.

Good coaches don't allow these things to develop. And unless BA starts to show a ruthless streak he'll forever be a middle of the road coach.

 

[Glenneel]

I think Ruan Sims is better suited to Dally M voting.

As head coach she wouldn't even turn up for training, let alone go to the game. She'd watch it on tv from her favourite restaurant, and she must have plenty looking at her now.

 

[Eelementary]

My real fear for the coming games is that we'll lose nearly all of them and limp into the finals only to limp out again. BA as a coach is wearing really thin with me giving me little confidence in his ability. After the Souths debacle he said it was an easy fix, as if this was the first sign that something was not working. We've been shit for close to 2 months now with nothing fixed. So unless his eyes are painted on how can he not see it? The 2 Blakes attack and defence has been horrible all year and still not fixed. And he still refuses to drop poor performing players so there's no accountability.

Good coaches don't have these traits, they're ruthless and expect, and get, quality performances even if they lose. Last year Bellamy suddenly dropped the incumbent fullback and bought in Papenhuyzen, who has reignited their attack, as well as dropping Brodie Croft as halfback for the finals. That didn't work out but as seen with the Broncos he is not a great halfback yet, but maybe one day. Same with Robinson, Flanagan dropped when everybody else thought he was going great. BA doesn't do that and sticks with his favourites regardless.

Our team's defence has as shownbeen poor for years and Kidwell, the defence coach, has been with us for years. This year the defence has improved, the stats say so, but has it really? When under pressure the same cracks open up. We're too compressed imo so quick shifts to the edges opens us up . Why does this happen? Do we have poor technique so have to compress so tightly to stop the opposition so exposing the edges? Our line speed in D at the beginning of the year was good but has dropped off imo allowing the better teams to exploit our edges. The Blakes defence has been diabolical all year yet nothing has changed all year. Not signs of a good coach, as they'd already have a different coach. But BA has shown he dislikes dropping players, and coaches apparently.

Our attack has faulted and there are many reasons I can see.
Mahoney just doesn't run any more,
our support play is poor,
Moses doesn't engage the line enough for me, to draw defenders in, before passing,
N Brown hardly passes any more, he had a good passing game close to the line at one stage. Now he prefers the big run play, a BA ploy? He'd be better off getting defenders interested and popping short balls to support players running thru holes,
lack of support for our edge forwards who are always looking to pop a ball,
general lack of genuine speed in our backline, all the good teams have this.
They are just some of the reasons that have developed as the year progressed. None fixed, but according to BA they're a easy fix.

Good coaches don't allow these things to develop. And unless BA starts to show a ruthless streak he'll forever be a middle of the road coach.

That line of "BA said it was it an easy fix" has been trotted up a lot lately - but do you know what he was referring to?

He basically said that, against the Bunnies, the players let the media get in their heads, and they believed they needed to score heaps of points, and put a team to the sword.

When Arthur said it is an easy fix, he simply meant that he needs to refocus his mind team's attentions on what they have been doing right.

We hadn't been playing well for 6 to 8 weeks leading up to the Bunnies game, but we were still winning - our focus had still been on our defence, and we won more games than we lost.

I'm not saying Arthur is the right man to lead us to glory, or anything - but let's at least give him the benefit of the doubt here.

I mean, he came out, and put his balls on the line, by saying that our main problem against Souths was letting the media get into our heads, and deviating from our simple, bash-and-barge game plan.

Let's at least give him the chance to prove his comments right - or wrong.

 

[Gary Gutful]

As soon as I was aware of the soundbite I knew that it would be used as a weapon on here.

 

[Eelementary]

As soon as I was aware of the soundbite I knew that it would be used as a weapon on here.

Yep.

I mean, sure - he said it. Quote him on it.

But maybe use a little perspective - he has confidently told the world that he can easily fix our performance from last week.

Let's let him try to do that.

 

[Gazzamatta]

My real fear for the coming games is that we'll lose nearly all of them and limp into the finals only to limp out again. BA as a coach is wearing really thin with me giving me little confidence in his ability. After the Souths debacle he said it was an easy fix, as if this was the first sign that something was not working. We've been shit for close to 2 months now with nothing fixed. So unless his eyes are painted on how can he not see it? The 2 Blakes attack and defence has been horrible all year and still not fixed. And he still refuses to drop poor performing players so there's no accountability.

Good coaches don't have these traits, they're ruthless and expect, and get, quality performances even if they lose. Last year Bellamy suddenly dropped the incumbent fullback and bought in Papenhuyzen, who has reignited their attack, as well as dropping Brodie Croft as halfback for the finals. That didn't work out but as seen with the Broncos he is not a great halfback yet, but maybe one day. Same with Robinson, Flanagan dropped when everybody else thought he was going great. BA doesn't do that and sticks with his favourites regardless.

Our team's defence has as shownbeen poor for years and Kidwell, the defence coach, has been with us for years. This year the defence has improved, the stats say so, but has it really? When under pressure the same cracks open up. We're too compressed imo so quick shifts to the edges opens us up . Why does this happen? Do we have poor technique so have to compress so tightly to stop the opposition so exposing the edges? Our line speed in D at the beginning of the year was good but has dropped off imo allowing the better teams to exploit our edges. The Blakes defence has been diabolical all year yet nothing has changed all year. Not signs of a good coach, as they'd already have a different coach. But BA has shown he dislikes dropping players, and coaches apparently.

Our attack has faulted and there are many reasons I can see.
Mahoney just doesn't run any more,
our support play is poor,
Moses doesn't engage the line enough for me, to draw defenders in, before passing,
N Brown hardly passes any more, he had a good passing game close to the line at one stage. Now he prefers the big run play, a BA ploy? He'd be better off getting defenders interested and popping short balls to support players running thru holes,
lack of support for our edge forwards who are always looking to pop a ball,
general lack of genuine speed in our backline, all the good teams have this.
They are just some of the reasons that have developed as the year progressed. None fixed, but according to BA they're a easy fix.

Good coaches don't allow these things to develop. And unless BA starts to show a ruthless streak he'll forever be a middle of the road coach.

I mostly agree GE as I do with Ram. You both seem to be singing from the same prayer book. Do I think BA is a coach that can win us a competition? Honestly, no I dont but like it or lump it hes here for another 2.2 seasons so Im hoping our heighreachy will recognise we need better support around him and ensure decisions are made by consensus.
Theres a good article on Fox this morning about Souths forward planning. Worth a read. Hopefully we are moving in a similar direction. Hang in mate. As Eels fans we know too well that it could always be worse.
Still a chance this year I hope.
Go you Mighty Eels.

 

[TheRam]

Yet he doesn't have to because, as you stated, "Gould won him a premiership in his first season."

So it's not all about the coach at all. It's about the sum total of resources provided to the football department over a number of years. It's not some magical sign-the-right-coach-for-guaranteed-premierships as you seem to think. Your own statements contradict each other. For the record I agree when you imply the coach is just one factor among many. I disagree when you imply it is the overwhelming single factor responsible for success or failure.

My point is that it doesn't matter who the coach is if the cub isn't set up for success. And if the club is set up for success then the coach isn't a major influence either. In 2020 we no longer have the 80s-style god-of-football head coach. Now we have football departments, with various employees responsible for different roles.

We are going round in circles mate. Basically Ricky won a premiership when he first got to the Roosters, a very well setup club while it was still influenced by the man that set it all up and it was ready to rumble. After that Ricky's own style and management started to dominate and ultimately overtook Gould's work. Ultimately what Stuart brought to the table was plop at the time and severed to lower the quality and standards that had previously been in place.

Stuart never won a premiership ever again. Politis's reaction to stuart's supposed "it doesn't matter who the coach is as long as the setup and support staff he has is strong?"

Rissoled the merkin.

 

[Eelementary]

I mostly agree GE as I do with Ram. You both seem to be singing from the same prayer book. Do I think BA is a coach that can win us a competition? Honestly, no I dont but like it or lump it hes here for another 2.2 seasons so Im hoping our heighreachy will recognise we need better support around him and ensure decisions are made by consensus.
Theres a good article on Fox this morning about Souths forward planning. Worth a read. Hopefully we are moving in a similar direction. Hang in mate. As Eels fans we know too well that it could always be worse.
Still a chance this year I hope.
Go you Mighty Eels.

I absolutely believe that The Ram, and Gleneel, make valid points.

To be honest, I am still not sure whether we can win a Premiership under Arthur.

But the guy came out to the media conference last week - after a 38-nil thrashing -, and very calmly (I noted he was quite calm at his press conference) said that he isn’t worried; that the issues that plagued us against Souths are an easy fix.

To calmly, and confidently, declare that at a press conference implies - at least, it does to me - that he saw exactly why we failed, and he saw that fixing that is a simple task.

I say we give him the benefit of the doubt tomorrow - if we get flogged, then it was all empty rhetoric.

But if we play like we have at our best - direct, up the guts, with punishing defence -, then maybe Arthur had a point.

 

[emjaycee]

Im wondering if Fitzgibbon lacks a little self confidence. He must have knocked back 30 jobs by now.

Robinson is most likely heading back to France in the next couple of years for family reasons so Fitzgibbon is no doubt aware of that and just waiting for Uncle Nick to tap him on the shoulder at the right time.

 

[TheRam]

That line of "BA said it was it an easy fix" has been trotted up a lot lately - but do you know what he was referring to?

He basically said that, against the Bunnies, the players let the media get in their heads, and they believed they needed to score heaps of points, and put a team to the sword.

When Arthur said it is an easy fix, he simply meant that he needs to refocus his mind team's attentions on what they have been doing right.

We hadn't been playing well for 6 to 8 weeks leading up to the Bunnies game, but we were still winning - our focus had still been on our defence, and we won more games than we lost.

I'm not saying Arthur is the right man to lead us to glory, or anything - but let's at least give him the benefit of the doubt here.

I mean, he came out, and put his balls on the line, by saying that our main problem against Souths was letting the media get into our heads, and deviating from our simple, bash-and-barge game plan.

Let's at least give him the chance to prove his comments right - or wrong.

The problem though is that this bash and barge game plan doesn't work for the long term unless there is a maestro or two adding the polish and finesse at the end of it to capitalize on all that hard work otherwise you end up running your team into the ground towards the end of a long season, which is happening right now.

Those great Western Suburbs teams of the 70's were a brutal lot and used to bash the snot out of everyone on Sundays back then but like clockwork by the end of the season they would simply run out of puff and get owned by nearly anyone they played and they played better then what we have dished up in attack too with little Tommy T. scheming and a terrorising as per usual.

It is a short lived tactic that needs more at the back of it so as to give your team time to rest and recover during games. If you try to maintain that type of approach for the full season history shows that a fresher high quality team will run you through at the pointy end of the season.

 

[TheRam]

I absolutely believe that The Ram, and Gleneel, make valid points.

To be honest, I am still not sure whether we can win a Premiership under Arthur.

But the guy came out to the media conference last week - after a 38-nil thrashing -, and very calmly (I noted he was quite calm at his press conference) said that he isn’t worried; that the issues that plagued us against Souths are an easy fix.

To calmly, and confidently, declare that at a press conference implies - at least, it does to me - that he saw exactly why we failed, and he saw that fixing that is a simple task.

I say we give him the benefit of the doubt tomorrow - if we get flogged, then it was all empty rhetoric.

But if we play like we have at our best - direct, up the guts, with punishing defence -, then maybe Arthur had a point.

What if we play like we have for the last couple of months and win? What would that mean?

 

[Gary Gutful]

Yep.

I mean, sure - he said it. Quote him on it.

But maybe use a little perspective - he has confidently told the world that he can easily fix our performance from last week.

Let's let him try to do that.

I'm fairly confident we will improve on last week's peformance. That will be easy.

Some people are taking it to mean that he will now guarantee us a premiership.

 

[Eelementary]

What if we play like we have for the last couple of months and win? What would that mean?

I am not sure - but I guess Arthur should come under scrutiny for that.

 

[TheRam]

I'm fairly confident we will improve on last week's peformance. That will be easy.

Some people are taking it to mean that he will now guarantee us a premiership.

Well I suspect that that is what the coach and players are ultimately planning and hoping for. He and the players have stated that they believe they are capable. So lets see. If he can't get a premiership capable team to play well at least then whos fault is it?

 

[TheRam]

I am not sure - but I guess Arthur should come under scrutiny for that.

Bingo!

 

[Gary Gutful]

Well I suspect that that is what the coach and players are ultimately planning and hoping for. He and the players have stated that they believe they are capable. So lets see. If he can't get a premiership capable team to play well at least then whos fault is it?

Not sure we have a premiership capable team but we’ve definitely improved in the last few years.

Addressing your question - the coach is the one that lives and dies by the sword. No problems with that, it’s just the way it is.

But I can’t think of a situation where a team fails and it’s entirely the coach’s fault. Just as it isn’t entirely down to the coach if a team wins. I just don’t see it that way.

 

[TheRam]

Not sure we have a premiership capable team but we’ve definitely improved in the last few years.

Addressing your question - the coach is the one that lives and dies by the sword. No problems with that, it’s just the way it is.

But I can’t think of a situation where a team fails and it’s entirely the coach’s fault. Just as it isn’t entirely down to the coach if a team wins. I just don’t see it that way.

Didn't say it was "entirely" the head coaches fault, but the buck stops with him and if he can't improve us to the point of being a true contender then he will need to go. At the moment we have a team that was a true contender at the start of the season for 10 rounds and then it all went sideways. Unless he can get them up to at least that earlier standard then he in my opinion has failed.

But because they will make the Semis again this season, our board are a million to one shot going to get rid of him especially since they just extended his contract by another 2 years. The best we can hope for is that they clean out his assistants and source some of the better minds in the NRL. I wouldn't mind if we got Flanagan as one of his assistants. That would be a massive improvement and a ready made coach to step in if needed of the highest calibre.

But hey, why worry? BA's got dis!

 

[Poupou Escobar]

As soon as I was aware of the soundbite I knew that it would be used as a weapon on here.

If we win it'll be used as a weapon against them.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Didn't say it was "entirely" the head coaches fault, but the buck stops with him and if he can't improve us to the point of being a true contender then he will need to go. At the moment we have a team that was a true contender at the start of the season for 10 rounds and then it all went sideways. Unless he can get them up to at least that earlier standard then he in my opinion has failed.

But because they will make the Semis again this season, our board are a million to one shot going to get rid of him especially since they just extended his contract by another 2 years. The best we can hope for is that they clean out his assistants and source some of the better minds in the NRL. I wouldn't mind if we got Flanagan as one of his assistants. That would be a massive improvement and a ready made coach to step in if needed of the highest calibre.

But hey, why worry? BA's got dis!

If we make Top 4 after last year’s performance I think it would need to be an elite coach that replaces him. If one of those is available and we can jag them then happy days...