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Rd8: Eels v Cowboys GAME DAY THREAD in Darwin 30/4/22

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
13,828
There was no room for him to run the ball, but last week Moses ran plenty. Even Arthur's took the tackle when the pass wasn't on:

Vs Knights
MerkinRunsPasses
Arthur835
Moses932

Vs Cowboys
MerkinRunsPasses
Arthur344
Moses542
My question to him wasnt specifically about last nights game, more so in general about what we are missing and why we continually lose the games we should win. I was trying to 'bait' him to see what his views on BA and Junior where but unfortunately someone else joined us and the conversation moved on.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
62,923
Looks like whoever was responsible for pouring money into the football operation took a breather. Or maybe after winning a premiership Paul Green forgot how to coach?

Sure. Or his side become sick of him and opposition coaches worked him out.....

Douglas Pedersen won a superbowl early on. The other sides started to work out his style. After that he was just average. Unable to find a new style.......

This is what happens. Game evolves, styles change sets.
 

Happy MEel

First Grade
Messages
9,859
He's not in the team to run the ball. As for his defence, you're being very selective and dare I say disingenuous with your choice of stats. He is defending at 86.7% effectiveness, which is better than big money halves Moses, Moylan, Walker and Munster, who are all defending at about 80%. No he isn't a threat in attack but that's not why backup halves are brought into the team.

And merkins were whinging about Drown's lack of output prior to this year when after a couple of games he's suddenly a must have in the halves. There's no guarantee he would've done anything at 6 last night. He did f**k all at centre. Our forwards gave us no room to move. The proof is in how little Moses did with the ball.
So what is he in the team for? He doesn’t create, run the ball with any kind of effectiveness, doesn’t really kick long and we can agree to disagree regarding his defence. He’s playing one of the most important positions on the field FFS.
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,028
My question to him wasnt specifically about last nights game, more so in general about what we are missing and why we continually lose the games we should win. I was trying to 'bait' him to see what his views on BA and Junior where but unfortunately someone else joined us and the conversation moved on.
@Avenger could have picked a better time to start bragging about his watch collection.
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,028
You should of pissed in the merkins seat.
When I was a kid my old man had a work car that he shared with a few colleagues. Whenever we'd drive around I'd sneak a few silent but deadlies into the passenger seat. Plan was working well until one of his colleagues complained that the car smelt of farts.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,434
You know what we do very well Poo? We scramble better than most. Thank fu*k for Dyl (when he plays 5/8) and Gutho or we would be far worse. Their efforts disguise absolute sh*t at the ruck or many occasions.
I guess it depends what you mean by scramble. Yes Gutherson and Drown are high effort defenders and both save a lot of tries but when I think of a team that scrambles well I think of the Panthers who are almost never outnumbered around ball because their middle defenders work so hard. Our middle absolutely doesn't look like that in defence, especially on the back of repeat efforts. The main effect is that Penrith recover very quickly from conceding a quick play-the-ball while we do not.

I guess my point is I agree with you, but maybe we have different definitions of scramble.
 
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Gary Gutful

Post Whore
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53,028
I guess it depends what you mean by scramble. Yes Gutherson and Drown are high effort defenders and both save a lot of tries but when I think of a team that scrambles well I think of the Panthers who are almost never outnumbered around ball because their middle defenders work so hard. Our middle absolutely doesn't look like that in defence, especially on the back of repeat efforts. The main effect is that Penrith recover very from conceding a quick play-the-ball while we do not.
I think most times I have heard the word 'scramble' used its in relation to a defensive team recovering from initial f**k ups.

Penrith adjusting and staying solid in the middle isn't scrambling because they are still always in control.

Do you even scramble FFS?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
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91,434
It was in response to you belatedly claiming your question was a rhetorical one... you're so high on keyboard fantasies you don't even know what argument you're trying to start or reply to any more 🤣
Belatedly? I responded when you asked. I didn't previously state it was rhetorical because I thought it was obvious. When I asked lucablight "Do you think they are all coming from outside the 20m zone?" I assumed he didn't think all our tries were scored from that far away, and it should've been obvious I didn't think they were either given I'm generally happy with our red zone attack. I certainly wasn't on Saturday though. I feel we started the game doing something differently, and by the time we got back to what works (in the second half) we were gassed and under scoreboard pressure.
Take a rest from it mate, you're fast losing whatever credibility for being a "thinker" you seem to think that you have,
Look, if I was interested in my credibility as a thinker I wouldn't be postulating on footy forums. I would pick a topic that was more cerebral. I do this because I enjoy it, not to get bitches. I'm just like you.
 
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11,839
I thought you said your question was rhetorical? Why are you belatedly bothering typing an answer.

Save yourself the effort, or (as several are suggesting) have a break and find yourself something else to fill the hole.
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,028
Belatedly? I responded when you asked. I didn't previously state it was rhetorical because I thought it was obvious. When I asked lucablight "Do you think they are all coming from outside the 20m zone?" I assumed he didn't think all our tries were scored from that far away, and it should've been obvious I didn't think they were either given I'm generally happy with our red zone attack. I certainly wasn't on Saturday though. I feel we started the game doing something differently, and by the time we got back to what works (in the second half) we were gassed and under scoreboard pressure.
Look, if I was interested in my credibility as a thinker I wouldn't be postulating on footy forums. I would pick a topic that was more cerebral. I do this because I enjoy it, not to get bitches. I'm just like you.
Phantom could make a room full of fanny part from a 100m radius.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,434
And I don't think I've seen one person ask you a question publically...
Here's a few examples just from the last two pages:

"Metres made by backs don’t count?"

"But you didn’t answer my question regarding Munster." (Not a question but a reference to a hypothetical question where my answer was unsatisfactory)

"I challenge you to find me another elite sporting competition where 75% of the teams have won the competition at some stage." (Not a question but seemed to be demanding a response)

"Is winning the ruck the ball coming off Melbourne players head, ball coming off post both times stone was in the perfect place?"

"How about you talk about the last 4 seasons where they finished 13th,13th,14th and 15th while having all those origin players,most destructive forward and abundant resources?"

"Making our players work extra hard to score suits our squad?"

You don't have to answer ever public post that appears in the forum - unless for some reason you're trying to fill a gap in your life?
Well if I was would that be bad? Maybe a source of shame perhaps? Let me know what you're trying to imply mate, cheers.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,434
What a shit post. Again.
I think JA is not good enough to play first grade, but never ONCE have I ever pinned the blame on him. Stop talking shit.
Well it's good if you're not blaming him. My reply was public because it was to everyone, specifically those who blamed Jake Arthur for the loss and twisted themselves into knots trying to explain why the Darwin debacle proved anything about the player without saying anything about the rest of the squad that is supposedly as good as the Panthers and Storm if only we had a better coach.

You (plural) can't have it both ways. If that game proves Jake Arthur is shit then it also proves most of the rest of them are, and we shouldn't be expected to win a grand final or any other given finals game. Personally I think the Cowboys loss doesn't prove anything about our players or our coach. It's just one game in a long season.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,434
Sure. Or his side become sick of him and opposition coaches worked him out.....
I'd say the former is the most likely reason coaches get the arse. Relationships with certain players break down and there are no salary cap implications from sacking coaches mid-contract (or at least there wasn't until recently) so it's easier to axe the coach. At plenty of clubs there are a number of players more important than the coach. If they want him gone it wouldn't be hard to make it happen.
Douglas Pedersen won a superbowl early on. The other sides started to work out his style. After that he was just average. Unable to find a new style.......
Sounds like a narrative, which usually means bullshit. It isn't hard to work out what tactics suit the rules. Then it's just a matter of building a team that suits those tactics. This isn't done in a vacuum. Other clubs want the same players so you can't just keep building until you have the perfect team because other teams are trying to take the players you've already got. It needs to happen all at once which takes superior resources (e.g. the big four or five EPL clubs) or the stars to align (e.g. Leicester City six years ago).
This is what happens. Game evolves, styles change sets.
Sure but the guys who are smart enough to figure it out once are also smart enough to see when things change. Fans might talk about coaches being too dumb to notice <blah> because it helps us feel smarter but the reality is if a hundred merkins on a footy forum can see something then even the dumbest coach can see the same thing. I think the guys that get pushed out of the game usually just burn out, maybe coinciding with a change in squad dynamics eroding their relationships with certain important players. This would usually be the straw that broke the camel's back for coaches moving on or even retiring.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,434
So what is he in the team for? He doesn’t create, run the ball with any kind of effectiveness, doesn’t really kick long and we can agree to disagree regarding his defence. He’s playing one of the most important positions on the field FFS.
I think the importance of the position depends on the responsibilities given to the player at the time. So for a highly paid star like Moses that right side halfback spot is of massive importance because he does almost all of our kicking and has freedom to play eyes up and take risks. When Drown plays left side halfback it is slightly less important because he doesn't have much responsibility for kicking, but he is to look for opportunities to run the ball. When Arthur plays left side halfback he has even less responsibility because his job is just to get early ball to Lane and Drown, and occasionally finish sets inside the opposition 20 with his short kicking game when required.

Basically those three wide spine positions (fullback and halves) share various responsibilities, and they are not divided equally, but rather they are divided according to the relative skills of the three members. This is what determines how important they are.
 

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