Redcliffe put their hand up

[The Great Dane]

Stupid argument - blues one of many teams in act comp at time. In fact being in NSW would've hurt them too.
In history of Morton Bay region there has only ever been one professional team in any sport & that's Dolphins.

Dolphins will be immediate success if only off field at first. Brisbane is rugby league city & fans will attend games.

Except they aren't bidding for a license to be a "Morton Bay team", they are bidding for a license for the second Brisbane team which will need enough mass appeal across the city to compete with the Broncos.

Also guess what dumb arse, the Dolphins have always been one of many teams in the Brisbane competition, and they've never been a fulltime professional team, only ever semi-professional.

BTW, for at least the first 8 years of their existence the Raiders were based in NSW. . .

 

[The Great Dane]

The big challenge for Redcliffe will be to rebrand to appeal to more than their tiny population centre. Fail and it will fail.

And the only way they'll achieve that is if they come up with a neutral brand.

 

[Pippen94]

Except they aren't bidding for a license to be a "Morton Bay team", they are bidding for a license for the second Brisbane team which will need enough mass appeal across the city to compete with the Broncos.

Also guess what dumb arse, the Dolphins have always been one of many teams in the Brisbane competition, and they've never been a fulltime professional team, only ever semi-professional.

BTW, for at least the first 8 years of their existence the Raiders were based in NSW. . .

Bidding to be 2nd team in Brisbane doesn't mean team for all of Brisbane - bombers only bid trying for that & you're the only person I've come across who likes bid - tho you backing away as it dies out.

Dolphins one of many teams in brl but only one in Morton bay. All of act teams located with Canberra - that's why example is just stupid.

Yes, I know raiders played out seiffert oval - if you go back to that time Dolphins were fully pro team then & I'd argue there still one now.

 

[The Great Dane]

That depends on if they want to represent Morton Bay or all of Brisbane. They should be (and based on the club themselves saying they won't use redcliffe, will be) representing the whole city, or atleast a good portion of it

It's call a motte-and-bailey argument, they are conflating two similar arguments and defend whichever is easier in the moment.
Generally one (the motte) is easier to defend than the other (the bailey), and the person uses the easier argument to push through the harder policy, but in this case both arguments are so hard to defend that they are just switching between the two whenever it's convenient to dodge a point.

In other words, when the sway of discussion makes it's easier to defend a new team from Brisbane they say the Dolphins will be a Brisbane team, when it's easier to defend a Morton Bay team they say the Dolphins will be a Morton Bay team.

 

[Pippen94]

The big challenge for Redcliffe will be to rebrand to appeal to more than their tiny population centre. Fail and it will fail.

Funny a Perth fan talking about teams failing like reds didn't go belly up in a few years.

 

[Pippen94]

It's call a motte-and-bailey argument, they are conflating two similar arguments and defend whichever is easier in the moment.
Generally one (the motte) is easier to defend than the other (the bailey), and the person uses the easier argument to push through the harder policy, but in this case both arguments are so hard to defend that they are just switching between the two whenever it's convenient to dodge a point.

In other words, when the sway of discussion makes it's easier to defend a new team from Brisbane they say the Dolphins will be a Brisbane team, when it's easier to defend a Morton Bay team they say the Dolphins will be a Morton Bay team.

You are so smart but advocating recreating expansion which has failed before - so that's dumb.
I've always supported 3 teams in Brisbane. There are natural separations which would allow for this; Morton Bay region to north & Ipswich Logan to south (I favor simply Ipswich which will be city's 2nd cbd).
Expansion of 2nd team appealing to same area as existing club has never worked anywhere ever

 

[Sunny coast shark]

Moreton Bay
425,300 (2016)

Sunshine Coast
333,400 (2018)

Total
758,700.

It would be stupid to call the team Brisbane or North Brisbane. Moreton Bay its on the northern outskirts of Greater Brisbane and Sunshine Coast is separate from the Brisbane metropolitan area.

People from Sunshine Coast do not like Brisbane.

Correct ! If the new team want my support including me getting a membership they must play a minimum of two games on the Sunshine Coast.

 

[Pippen94]

Redcliffe or Moreton Bay get my vote as the name for the team. Both names have historical relevance to south-east Queensland and can be used as a marketing tool. The NRL can spin a narrative about Redcliffe being the original choice for the Moreton settlement in the 19th century, before being rejected for Brisbane. Now the Dolphins are here to right those wrongs!

Kids born in Moreton Bay Region will have a strong emotional reason to choose Redcliffe/Moreton Bay Dolphins over Brisbane when they learn about this. It adds tribalism which creates lifelong fans. Emotional attachment is the driving factor that connects diehard fans to their sporting team.

Would locals ever consider area North Brisbane?? Wanderers used name with Sydney as commercially it was seen as better. Plus Morton Bay kinda limits catchment to just that council area - North Brisbane is broader with hope of gaining following in larger area

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You won't get any sense out of The Great Dane. He once accused me of wanting 5 to 7 teams in the Greater Brisbane area, when I've never said anything or the sort. I've always said Brisbane should have 3 or 4 teams. Anyone can use the Search function to see I never said Brisbane should have 5 or more teams. When TGD said that I realised he's just a crazy troll and I put him on ignore.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Correct ! If the new team want my support including me getting a membership they must play a minimum of two games on the Sunshine Coast.

The best scenario would be 8 at Dolphin Oval and 4 at Sunshine Coast. Lang Park is a long way for people from Moreton Bay and Sunshine Coast.

 

[The Great Dane]

Bidding to be 2nd team in Brisbane doesn't mean team for all of Brisbane - bombers only bid trying for that & you're the only person I've come across who likes bid - tho you backing away as it dies out.

Nobody has ever suggested that the second Brisbane team needs to represent all of Brisbane, that's just a straw man. However it does need to be able to represent a large portion of the population and the Redcliffe Dolphins (i.e. Brisbane's answer to Manly) are incapable of doing that unless they make some very big changes.

Speaking of straw men, I have only ever said of the Brisbane Bombers bid the same thing that I've said about the Dolphins; they are bad bid that will fail, however if they made some major changes to bid (mainly around the branding and who their target audience is) then they could be built into a strong bid.

Misrepresentation is really all you've got isn't it...

Dolphins one of many teams in brl but only one in Morton bay. All of act teams located with Canberra - that's why example is just stupid.

Yes, I know raiders played out seiffert oval - if you go back to that time Dolphins were fully pro team then & I'd argue there still one now.

Morton Bay is part of Brisbane, there for they were one of many teams in Brisbane.
Even then there aren't enough people to support a club in Morton Bay (especially when you could build a much bigger team in Brisbane), so no matter what you do you are going to have to build a club that is appealing to the broader population in Brisbane if it is going to be successful, just like the Blues had to build a club that was more appealing to the broader population in Canberra if they were going to be successful .

Also no RL club in Australia was fulltime professional before the late 90s, and the BRL and QRL have never been fulltime professional comps, both are semi-pro.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Would locals ever consider area North Brisbane?? Wanderers used name with Sydney as commercially it was seen as better. Plus Morton Bay kinda limits catchment to just that council area - North Brisbane is broader with hope of gaining following in larger area

People from Brisbane would consider Moreton Bay to be northern Brisbane. I don't know what people from Moreton Bay would think. Moreton Bay-Sunshine Coast Dolphins could work. I know that people on the Sunshine Coast do not identify as Brisbaners and identify with the beach, so a team named after an aquatic animal and based on the coastline would be appeal to them more than one that's more suited for a country and western film.

Locals I spoke with from the area would say they're from Caboolture or Redcliffe.

 

[The Great Dane]

You are so smart but advocating recreating expansion which has failed before - so that's dumb.
I've always supported 3 teams in Brisbane. There are natural separations which would allow for this; Morton Bay region to north & Ipswich Logan to south (I favor simply Ipswich which will be city's 2nd cbd).
Expansion of 2nd team appealing to same area as existing club has never worked anywhere ever

You do know that a second Brisbane club failed in the same period right?!
The 90s were a completely different time, things have completely changed, it would be the height of stupidity, and frankly cowardice, to make decisions based on what happened during the time of SL.

Also there's this much more obvious natural separation, it's this ugly great river that runs right through the middle of city, where roughly half the population lives on either side... That why you don't need three dinky little clubs that don't represent large parts of the population and just split the fan base three ways, you can have two huge clubs that represent everyone and grow big.

 

[The Great Dane]

You won't get any sense out of The Great Dane. He once accused me of wanting 5 to 7 teams in the Greater Brisbane area, when I've never said anything or the sort. I've always said Brisbane should have 3 or 4 teams. Anyone can use the Search function to see I never said Brisbane should have 5 or more teams. When TGD said that I realised he's just a crazy troll and I put him on ignore.

LOL, now he pretends he doesn't know what hyperbole is.

 

[Sunny coast shark]

The best scenario would be 8 at Dolphin Oval and 4 at Sunshine Coast. Lang Park is a long way for people from Moreton Bay and Sunshine Coast.

Sure is, I would go tho Redcliffe for 3-4 games a season.
Suncorp is a joke you can’t park within 5km and public transport from the Sunshine Coast is a farce.
No chance people from the Sunshine Coast will regularly attend games at Suncorp.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Sure is, I would go tho Redcliffe for 3-4 games a season.
Suncorp is a joke you can’t park within 5km and public transport from the Sunshine Coast is a farce.
No chance people from the Sunshine Coast will regularly attend games at Suncorp.

I'm at Logan and find Lang Park to be a pain. Getting to that ground takes ages during peak hour traffic. It can take up to 30 or 40 minutes to exit the ground after a game. When I went to Cowboys vs Broncos games that started around 7pm due to daylight savings, I wouldn't get home until 11pm or after midnight. So that's 2-3 hours after full time, and I live right on the border of Brisbane and Logan. I would hate to see how long it would take some one from southern Logan. Sunshine Coasters would find it impossible.

 

[greenBV4]

It seems for the Dolphins to also cater for the SC they will need a dragons like situation, and perhaps a merger/ joint venture with the Falcons. However im not convinced the Dragons model is a great model to strive for..

Has Redcliffe ever even mentioned the Sunshine Coast in their bid or was that just something brought up on here? It seems from their official statements they a learning more towards a "broader" Brisbane branding

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

This is the shit TGD said a few months back.

"Oh you gonna play that stupid semantics game where you pretend you don't understand that metropolis and city are synonyms again.

Mate be real, you reckon "Brisbane" should have 4 teams, and that Ipswich, Logan, Morton Bay, etc, should all have one as well..."

My response to the nut.

" Now I know you belong in the nut house. I have NEVER said that the City of Brisbane should have 4 teams with the other cities from the metropolitan area having 3 teams of their own. You came to that conclusion all on your own because you are stark raving mad. What I have said is there are plenty of options for the NRL in Brisbane that would work, but from day one I have said the total number of teams for the metro area should be 3 or 4 over the next 30 to 40 years. So add 2 or 3. When people discussed areas like Redcliffe I said it would be a good idea as it covers Moreton Bay and could serve Sunshine Coast. I would like Easts and Wynnum to merge and take in the eastern suburbs of City of Brisbane, City of Redland and City of Logan. I would like Norths, Wests and Souths to merge and create Brisbane Devils, wearing red and black. I know those mergers will never happen, I just think it would be good if they did."

https://forums.leagueunlimited.com/threads/rank-the-brisbane-bids.480499/page-28#post-14277681

 

[LeagueXIII]

The Raiders name wasn't picked by a public vote, it was a competition where you'd submit a name and they'd pick the best one.

Before the competition had even started the media was already referring to the team as "the Raiders", and it's since been admitted that the competition was rigged, that the winner of the competition 'Patricia Taylor' was actually Patricia Elphick under her maiden name, who was the wife of Don Elphick who was a bigshot at the ACTRL, and that both the Raiders and Steelers names were actually picked the NSWRL whom specifically picked the American names because of their relevance (no matter how loose) to Canberra and Illawarra and because of market research they did that suggested that both of them had good brand recognition because of the NFL teams.

Now juxtapose the success that both the Raiders and Brumbies have had under their neutral, "plastic", brands, with the Canberra Vikings whom carried their Tuggeranong brand into a national competition and it's completely stuffed their team as a commercial entity because of the negative response from other local clubs fans...

The clubs submission to enter the competition says that a competition will be run to decide on the emblem of the club and would need to meet the approval of the NSWRFL general committee. The same for the design and colours of the jersey. It was intended to include the involvement of the public of Canberra and district.

John McIntyre says the public participation was run through the papers.

What form the competition was I don't know. However the public's opinions were sought.

 

[The Great Dane]

It seems for the Dolphins to also cater for the SC they will need a dragons like situation, and perhaps a merger/ joint venture with the Falcons. However im not convinced the Dragons model is a great model to strive for..

Has Redcliffe ever even mentioned the Sunshine Coast in their bid or was that just something brought up on here? It seems from their official statements they a learning more towards a "broader" Brisbane branding

Yeah they've said they want to play the odd game on the Sunshine Coast.