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Relocation.

Windy70

Juniors
Messages
2,275
I also have never lived in the Shire. But I have been a Sharks supporter for over 30 years. They are the Cronulla Sharks....and that's that.

I'm with the rest...I used to love this game but the NRL's double standards and dropping to their knees when ever a tv executive demanded has destoyed what this game was about. It was a tough game....players were respected. Now it's armor plated fairy floss.
The powers that be have sucked it dry and dragged it down a path it can't retun from.
So, if the Sharks move, so do I. No interest in wathing league because "it's a game of league". But I'll do anything to watch or listen to a "Cronulla Sharks" game.
We move....I move on. Full stop.
 

The Popper

Bench
Messages
4,353
I am also of the opinion that had Gow remained in charge the development would now be a done deal.
I have been a Cronulla supporter and football club member from the start and a season ticket holder for many years. A number of years ago I attended two council meetings to see how the development applications panned out in the council meetings. Blacktip is pretty close to the mark. From memory Labor and Shire Watch opposed the development while Liberal supported it. There was also a strong contingent of mildly vocal `locals' opposing the development in one of the meetings.
This farce??? has now been going on for about a decade. If the club can get it up, well and good. But I have my doubts. It just seems to be dragging on and on. And for the life of me I can't see us winning a comp in the current climate - pokie taxes, smoking bans, lost matches, falling attendances.
And let's face it. Fans want winners. Winning puts bums on seats. Fans don't want to be associated with losers. And perhaps that's been our downfall all along. Our fans have become used to applauding mediocrity. This does not appear to be the case for those fans of so-called `tough' or `winning' clubs, who have been known to even abuse their players.
So, perhaps, it is partially the fault of the fans for our current predicament. Apathy. Not enough vote. Not enough attend games - particularly when we're losing.
A lot of you blame the coach et al for not selecting new players. Well, perhaps some of the fans have been guilty of the same thing - not selecting new `players' on the Board when times were tough. Who knows?
We could be pretty close to the horse bolting. Who knows about that too? :crazy:
 
Messages
21,842
im a 15 year supporter now.

im an infrequent visitor to the shire. its a nice place for the weekend. and pretty laid back.
laid back culture overall i believe has attributed to lack of winning things.

look at canberra. no beach. 3 premierships. do the math. and dont throw manly back at me because we all know that they * edit *hold no prisoners. they'e just more ruthless.

but im against moving. this isn't America. the way i see it if they arent in the shire then its just not the same and any premierships that may or may not come from a new city with even the same colours or logo wouldnt be the same.

ET never played for the Central Coast Sharks. he played at shark park on captain cook drive and thats the way i would like it to stay.

if they were to move, a move to adelaide would see me give the game away. me and south australia arent on good terms.
 
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roboshark

Coach
Messages
17,480
If they move then the game has lost me...not that these incompetant fools at nrl would give a f**k. Unless I was a manly supporter
 

Quigs

Immortal
Messages
34,447
My feelings.

We need to fight to the very last fibre of Sharks integrity to survive in the Sutho shire. Once you severe those ties you may as well be call the south mongolian shamrocks.

Get blokes with the balls to battle for us.

The NRL would not give a flying f**k about a club trying to get back to Sydney, we all know that. You'd trust those bastards as far as you could kick them.

Me - if the Sharks go, I'm gone. I will make one more trip down to the Sharks leagues club carpark to publicly burn my Tommy Bishop autographed 67 and 73 jerseys.

But I am selfish. After 42 years all I want is one premiership and then I was winding down my interests in the so called game of modern day rugby league. The product today, the packaging, the self important fools running the circus are an insult to the greatest game of all.

It's farked.

Here is an example youngens.... and take note .......

see the crap that went on between Maddog and Wendal last weekend. Notice how every paper, every tv sports news, every dog and his dick were talking about it....

well that used to happen in nearly every farkin game, every farkin' week because the contact sport was allowed to have characters that made the game interesting and something to look forward to.. it was called clashes.

Not like the farkin programmed robots of today whose whole life revolved around the weeks farkin' game stats and their off field life is a false impression of role model extrodinares to every politically correct parented snotty nosed kid.

Those blokes were allowed to have a life full of incidents and frivolity and mirth. And we sweeted on every bit of goss you could get about those loveable larrikans.

Now they fart in a public place it is cause for a new round of legislation to have them deported to a far away country. Well for some players of some certain clubs, but not for all the clubs... if you get my drift.


Cheers
Declared Idiot #88
Quigs
 

Dave Q

Coach
Messages
11,065
Id be pretty dissapointed to see the sharks have to relocate.

Membership is critical in this scenario, so either sign up or shut up.

Look to the clubs who are the financial success stories, head-hunt their staff and try to emulate their success.

At the end of the day, its the people invloved and employed who make the club a success or not.

The comp would be fugged without the sharks, a lot of their fans we could dispense with pretty readily, but the club, should stay put.

I havent missed the rabbitoh/sharks game at endeavour for 4 years, its a great ground.
 
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blacktip-reefy

Immortal
Messages
34,079
We aren't going anywhere.
If we can get past the labour/green merkins in the local area & council, the development is positioned to be built at he best possible time. Resources are cheap & skills are plentiful. Coming out the other side, demand will be up & prices high. Just need to hang tough.
A f**king premiership, although being a long second on the importance list, would help a bit.

Maybe its time for the slitters, to remember something important. To exist & come last, is better than not existing.
 

Quigs

Immortal
Messages
34,447
I'm not going anywhere just yet. I have set myself a lifes goal.

To live long enough to see the Mighty Sharks do a lap of honour.

I intend to live to 106 if thats what it takes.

But still........ f**k the lot of them.

Cheers
Declared Idiot #88
Quigs
 

Card Shark

Immortal
Messages
32,237
We aren't going anywhere.
If we can get past the labour/green merkins in the local area & council, the development is positioned to be built at he best possible time. Resources are cheap & skills are plentiful. Coming out the other side, demand will be up & prices high. Just need to hang tough.
A f**king premiership, although being a long second on the importance list, would help a bit.

Maybe its time for the slitters, to remember something important. To exist & come last, is better than not existing.

What concerns me blacktip is we are hanging our heads on this development but I think it might actually be the last nail in the coffin, after we pour bucketloads of cash into it to get it built but it doesnt bring in the money we need quick or large enough to cover the bills it has created.

Its a worry.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,968
Cronulla won't be running last forever. It's not all doom and gloom. I recall Souths being in the same position a few years ago.

Sound management is the key.
 

Windy70

Juniors
Messages
2,275
If they do relocate, does Ricky's contract become void????


You are an absolute joke when it comes to anything in the history of anything. You can't be considered a Sharks fan, nor a league fan. Please move on...nothing to see here.
 

carinashark

First Grade
Messages
5,480
Im so tired of this . The devlopment will be built , the Sharks will be ok and still in the Shire, so we might come last , it might be what we need to get it right.
 

SirShire

First Grade
Messages
5,412
My $0.02...

If you take much of what has been reported in the media, stated by the club about the need to get the development approved/crowds up, even what Newman has posted, it seems unlikely that the club will exist in its current shape beyond the next 12 months.

If it were to happen, the biggest sin I see is not the inability to win a Premiership in nearly 50 years of existence, but rather, the inability to keep an entity afloat when you exist in an area that prides itself on its small business environment.

The Shire is unique in that is it has 1 professional sporting body representing itself in a national league. Unlike teams like Sydney FC, NSW Blues etc. which arguably target the greater Sydney metro and Western Sydney catchments, the Sutherland Shire is relatively secluded, the main sporting threat in terms of $ coming from St George, in the NRL at least. The existence of hundreds of thriving small businesses (up until the last 18 months) makes it hard to stomach that the team could fail, and raises the question of whether the club has done the right thing by these businesses. I say this on the basis of experience with family and friends who are sponsors who I regularly go to the games with, and who tell me they aren't exactly thrilled with what they receive from the club.

Spider, I think the point Newmz might be trying to make is that should the development get off the ground, it could be years until the club sees the first dollar of income from it. If the finances are as dire as you state, how could the club possibly survive now in the knowledge that potentially it could be sometime before the dollars start to roll in when the money is seemingly needed immediately? And how can they organise backers/credit in such worrying economic times when they can't even maximise their loans for liquidity purposes?

And now, the game day experience:

Look at the crowd averages. In 1999 it was a shade under 14,000 per match. 2001 slightly lower, but well over 13,000. 2003 just under 13,000. 2006 it was 12,500. 2008 it was over 13,000 and presently in 2009 it is just over 10,000.

My first gripe with those figures is that they aren't correct. They're fudged in the order of 1,000 patrons and I say that on the basis of it being almost common knowledge that clubs do it, and also the 'official' figure for the Raiders home game of 8,500 - as a spectator at the match it looked 6,000 MAXIMUM - the stands were empty, and the concourse seating was almost non existent.

We're looking at pretty concerning falls in patronage there. You're losing roughly ~2,000 per match from 1999 to now. The question has to be - why? And it is the quality of the game day experience. The standard of football between 1999-2009 hasn't exactly been inspiring, save for a few enjoyable seasons it has been pretty poor in all honesty.

I can't speak for the people who aren't going to every game, but I sympathise with the people here who are saying they are having second thoughts about renewing season seats. I used to walk over broken glass to get to Sharks games and rarely missed home or away matches, but the last 3 years it seems the aura of a home game has really died. The excitement isn't there. If it was game day at Shark Park and you were in the Shire, you use to fuggen know it as the atmosphere was infectious. Flags everywhere, punters in Sharks jerseys, it was just an exciting place to be and it made you long to get to the ground.

But it seems now that the club just offers us nothing. Heavy handed and plain rude security, unfriendly staff, the axeing of the much loved preso (Ricky stated his dislike of this, but save for the odd pisspot I never witnessed anything distasteful except for the last game of Raper and a good mate of mine and former poster known to a few of the old hats here!) - the club used to be packed til early in the morning and people were having a good time and no doubt spending money (probably not enough as needed now, but spending money regardless). Now, as a young bloke I can attest, that the club seems like an absolute den post game and so it is generally the norm to just vacate the club and kick on.

My point in all this - the atmosphere of the ground and the club has been sucked dry by this current administration. I can't give you an exact reason, but it certainly is the case as it just doesn't feel like it used to. I miss the old scoreboard, the Beer Hill beer tent, and the shoulder to shoulder crowds up there, the heckling of the opposition, the odd drunken plea to a cheerleader, the skydiver, the post game fireworks - all the stuff that made a Sharks game unique and special in the past. It has all changed alot in my opinion.

Add to that, I don't think locals particularly like being told by a blow in like Zappia that they're fickle and they need to get their arses to the ground, when it is in his hands to sell the club as good option for punters on the weekend. Plain and simple - in its current format, it isn't. I'm sure they have seperate licensing due to the nature of the sport, but look at the SCG during test match cricket - open at 8AM for breakfast for punters, jazz bands in the morning to encourage people to get there early and spend dough. What exactly do the Sharks offer? They should have morning markets, athletics and horse riding/petting zoos for kids, kick arounds on the pitch, live bands all day and create a real, buzzing game day experience.

Oh to have Gowie back at the club. A friend of mine has been teaching his lovely daughter how to water ski at Gow's request on the Hacking all week, the bastard. You can't help but wonder what it would be like at the club now.

But the game is dying, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it as much as I used to. Too many storms in tea cups, too many backroom deals, and most notably, the failure of our club to run like a business make it hard to swallow (mostly being the soft touches on contracts, ie Nutley, Stapleton and now Fraser Anderson). I agree with Quigs - the greatest game of all just ain't the greatest game of all anymore. Too many fingers in the pie, too many smug wowser journers (never trust a person who refers to himself in the first person, Buzz). It is pretty sad now that to get enjoyment out of the game at a grass roots level now you have to watch the Illawarra League (which I have been doing recently).

I agree with Reefy too, politics will bury the club. With the composition of council now, I couldn't tell you how the development will go through, but you can't help but wonder how much easier it could have been if the club was more proactive. I mean, 10+ years in the making is a long bow to draw. Peter Costello never received enough accolades for the significance of his contribution to the club - whether the club used it properly is another issue (the new Southern Stand isn't too inspiring).
 

spider

Coach
Messages
15,841
you raise some good points SS

Spider, I think the point Newmz might be trying to make is that should the development get off the ground, it could be years until the club sees the first dollar of income from it.
that depends on how the prospectus is allotted / constructed financially

If the finances are as dire as you state, how could the club possibly survive now in the knowledge that potentially it could be sometime before the dollars start to roll in when the money is seemingly needed immediately? And how can they organise backers/credit in such worrying economic times when they can't even maximise their loans for liquidity purposes
I think you need to look at the entity as a whole to have some faith. Yes the finances are dire for the football club - but the leagues is still financially strong.

The Leagues club has derived a net profit around the $1.4m to $1.8m for the last so many years. BUT - they always show a minimal loss on the books after the football grant - and thats not too mention the other items disclosed in finacial statements at years end.

The Leagues club has absorbed these losses year after year on behalf of the footy club, and imo probably would continue to do so if the debt could be extended, but the boat has seemingly docked and cant absorb any more debt.

If the development can cover the football loss and bring it into the black, then both entities can look at expanding further capital expenditure (football ground) and improving the overall business plan and future vision.

But the current mob cant do it - look where a reactive vision has taken them, its time for a proactive approach - and it starts with the members come election time.
 

dolph_sharkphin

Juniors
Messages
825
I have been a Sharks fan since 1979. I love 'em. But like some others have said, my love of the game has dwindled of late. For instance, I used to try and watch every game every team every weekend, but thats changed now. I only watch a Sharks game. And I hope.

If they relocate, change the brand or name, I'm not 100% sure what I would do. Maybe have a passing interest in seeing how they go, but I dont think I would be as big of a supporter as I am now. It would be a shame and be a major change in my life. Can we win one as Cronulla Sutherland Sharks before we fold please? Thanks.
 

Tucky

Juniors
Messages
1,270
I've been a Sharkies fan since 78 and have never lived in the shire. I lived in Sydney from 88-95 and saw as many names as I could and absolutely loved the experience of going to Caltex/Shark Park, watching guys like ET, Sparkles, Speechley, Green, Peach etc. I've been living in Brisbane since then, but have continued to support the Sharks at the matches up here against the Donkeys and the Tits and this year I've got Interstate membership for the family for the first time (wish I'd done it years ago). I've even promised my 11 y.o son that one day I'd take him down to Sydney to watch a match at Toyota.

If the Sharks relocate, I would seriously consider giving up watching league altogether. The Sharks are the Shire as far as I'm concerned, not Adelaide, not the Central Coast and definitely not the Sunshine Coast.
 

SirShire

First Grade
Messages
5,412
you raise some good points SS


that depends on how the prospectus is allotted / constructed financially

Presumably the company which they form to administer the new business will construct their capital with debt and equity - but that raises more questions. Who are the backers? Can they get the required $60 mil touted? If they can secure 100% equity, how will they get the debt?

The whole issue I see is the time period they face to get some return on capital. I guess you look at the Southern Stand and think they could pull it off in a grander scale - BUT this time the money is not a gift. There will be people expecting a pay off from this. Also, are they banking on an one off payment (ie selling off the plan) or rental income? The big issue for mine with that is, assuming they need all the capital to finance the project and cannot put it towards the running of the football club, how long from laying of the first brick to when we receive the first dollar to finance the running of the club?

My concern is, that it has taken them over a decade to get this thing from its rawest form to a concept just put before council, which remains unapproved. Regardless of zoning issues, that comes across as laziness. It doesn't really instill much confidence as to how they could actually pull this off if approved.

I think you need to look at the entity as a whole to have some faith. Yes the finances are dire for the football club - but the leagues is still financially strong.

The Leagues club has derived a net profit around the $1.4m to $1.8m for the last so many years. BUT - they always show a minimal loss on the books after the football grant - and thats not too mention the other items disclosed in finacial statements at years end.

The Leagues club has absorbed these losses year after year on behalf of the footy club, and imo probably would continue to do so if the debt could be extended, but the boat has seemingly docked and cant absorb any more debt.

If the development can cover the football loss and bring it into the black, then both entities can look at expanding further capital expenditure (football ground) and improving the overall business plan and future vision.

But the current mob cant do it - look where a reactive vision has taken them, its time for a proactive approach - and it starts with the members come election time.

Agreed, but as with any organisation the true strength is not only in the balance sheet but also the people. My faith in Pierce & Co. is non existent.

The Chairman of the NRL hasn't achieved too much in his reign for his own club, has he?
 
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