Round 13 vs. Dargons @Bluebet

[WestyLife]

Riki’s played one game. Cole has had multiple and you’re warming to him.

Crazy thought but maybe we give Riki more than a 25 min cameo before saying he can’t make it

In Coles first game I was meming about hating him and was very open about that. His defence was still very good making 30+ tackles. Riki showed nothing to suggest he has something for first grade and he's 26. I'd be a bit more understanding if he was a 20 year old learning his game.

 

[chrisD]

Blitzed in that second half. Flanno and Dragons did well.

I don't really mind it tbh. I don't like the idea of the kids coming in and thinking they can just sleep walk into winning in first grade because that's what Penrith do. If we are to remain dominant it's going to be up to them to keep us that way, and it's going to take more than just turning up and some highlight plays. It's not going to be easy.

 

[globalpanther]

Yeah we were missing some but there was no balance what so ever on our bench.

 

[murraymob]

I

In Coles first game I was meming about hating him and was very open about that. His defence was still very good making 30+ tackles. Riki showed nothing to suggest he has something for first grade and he's 26. I'd be a bit more understanding if he was a 20 year old learning his game.

will reserve my judgement on Riki untill I see him with a few of the top liners around him
There where a few big name players being outgunned as well last night

 

[Copperhead]

After our luck with SOS and Cogger, I had high hopes for Schneider, who I thought was a class above them. But I was wrong (at least so far). Last night, add to his poor kicking game, he missed 6 tackles, and had 2 runs for 4m. Toelau showed more with that 40 20 attempt than Schneider has all year.

 

[Bred not Bought]

After our luck with SOS and Cogger, I had high hopes for Schneider, who I thought was a class above them. But I was wrong (at least so far). Last night, add to his poor kicking game, he missed 6 tackles, and had 2 runs for 4m. Toelau showed more with that 40 20 attempt than Schneider has all year.

I thought Schneider was rushed back too early. His performance last night reflected that.

I would love to see Toelau next to Cleary in a relatively full-strength side.

 

[Bred not Bought]

Yeah we were missing some but there was no balance what so ever on our bench.

The bench was shit. The added loss of Garner and Huth spread us to thin.

 

[Goonji]

I don't want to pile on the guy, but that missed tackle from Riki at the start of the second half completely changed the game. It was such a bad miss. Great example for the kids that the most dangerous player on the field is the one with the ball. He took his eyes off him and started to shift to the support runner far too early, and he got burnt.

And it's another showcase as to why the kickoff in it's current state is so important to rugby league. We saw it a few weeks back against Manly too. Nathan Brown's kickoff returns showed Manly the way, and got them so far on the front foot that we just could not catch our breath.

Not much else to say that hasn't already been said. Really frustrating second half. Too many errors at key moments, and too many guys being forced to play big, big minutes because our bench was shit.

Garner and Eisenhuth to come straight back in next week, and hopefully Luai too - especially if he's riding high from a win on Wednesday. The rest of the Origin guys can take have a break.

Technically, he didn't actually miss the tackle because he never attempted it. If you watch replays, he has his eyes on the the bloke he expected to get the ball. He wasn't watching at all the bloke who had the ball.

 

[Goonji]

St George’s perfect 2nd half -
2 set restarts for the first try
1 set restart for second try
Penalty for third try
captains challenge for knock on into penalty for offside for fourth try
4 penalties, 3 set restarts to 0 penalties and 2 restarts (in last 5 minutes)

Everything just went their way in the second half. We never had a chance to change the momentum.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

In Coles first game I was meming about hating him and was very open about that. His defence was still very good making 30+ tackles. Riki showed nothing to suggest he has something for first grade and he's 26. I'd be a bit more understanding if he was a 20 year old learning his game.

I thought Riki was very good in the first half; many on here did also if you read this thread during the game.

Bad miss to start the second half. But it wasn’t just him. But lots of the players seemed off; probably a combination of lights going off, relaxing at half time and the Dragons playing with a lot more intensity. Good learning for the kids; you need to be at your best at all times in 1st grade. I’m most disappointed with the leaders.

If I had one complaint about the team it would be at fullback. This isn’t a criticism about Laurie, but he doesn’t play fullback in Cup (as far as I can see). He was the expected to come into first grade and play like Edwards. He was all heart and did nothing wrong, but his talents are not the same as Edwards; he is a completely different player. We saw him doing a lot of what Edwards usually does (returning, 5th tackle hit-ups), just not as effectively and none of his high quality ball-playing.

 

[MugaB]

People are down playing the Dragons effort. They come out in that 2nd half with intent. Played with passion and power and simple bashed the Panthers out of it. Penrith missing more quality but 10-0 up at halftime most expected them to take care of business.

This I can agree with you, dragons just wanted it more

 

[Black Diamond]

You do realise that Dragons also had 6 blokes missing from their first grade team right? And that impacts and weakens our reserve grade team right?
Or you didn’t notice that we were playing without the likes of Hunt, Lomax, Su’a, Sele, Bird who are regular first graders.
Twit.

Is that the best you got? That list does not anywhere compare to ours. Come see us again when everyone is back on deck, then you can slide back in your little hole at the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Frankus]

hence why I put this on Ivan.

Kenny went off for HIA which makes this worse because he would of played 80.

Bench minutes

Toelau 24
Riki 26 across 2 stints
Mav 22
Peachey 9

Again the bench players aren't the best but they could of had their minutes spread.

Fish played 60mins straight
Henry 74
Smith 80

Say you start Mav.

He does his 25 mins at the start.

You have a fresh Henry for that period after halftime.

Toelau should of came on for Smith not Moses. Give him a breather either side of halftime.

Then atleast we could of gone to linespeed power game we do so well.

We missed the start after halftime. That is when Ivan normally goes to the fresh starters

It was an Ivan shocker but he rarely has them so it can be excused

Relax.

Remember when Saturday night's performance was the norm for us? Now it is a rarity.

We need to enjoy this once in a lifetime run the club is having for what it is. Not jumping off bridges after we lose a tight game in the wet with more than half our starting 13 out.

 

[Sime_11]

Riki's performance mirrored the team performance- 1st half he looked good defensively and seems to hit some Dragons players hard (was good to see) - but then the kickoff for 2nd half happened and yeh that was very poor. which then led to his miss for the dragons try under the sticks.... im not writing him off yet, but there's a reason he's behind Smith & Henry.

this is the year that we've really suffered because of Origin and other injuries (Nathan) or stupidity either on or off the field.

we've finally been found out with no Edwards & Yeo on the weekend and it showed... that was very poor of us in the second half and players should be dropped (Tago for starters) - Ivan needs to reset the standards for FG performance.

just hoping we can bounce back against Manly - Sunday afternoon - hopefully no rain and we get another good crowd show up

 

[Iamback]

Relax.

Remember when Saturday night's performance was the norm for us? Now it is a rarity.

We need to enjoy this once in a lifetime run the club is having for what it is. Not jumping off bridges after we lose a tight game in the wet with more than half our starting 13 out.

Is it a rarity though?

Our last 2 home games we have only scored 2 tries both in the 1st half.

Dogs ended up 2 tries all.

We also lost to the Warriors after being up at halftime

Going back further

We led 18-4 at halftime v Cows. Scored just after to have a 24-4 lead turn into scraping out a 26-20 win.

Roosters game too we had a lead and ended up scraping home.

So the pattern is there. For whatever reason we are getting run down in 2nd halves, Just blaming the bench usage is probably too easy but the pattern is there

 

[Frankus]

Is it a rarity though?

Our last 2 home games we have only scored 2 tries both in the 1st half.

Dogs ended up 2 tries all.

We also lost to the Warriors after being up at halftime

Going back further

We led 18-4 at halftime v Cows. Scored just after to have a 24-4 lead turn into scraping out a 26-20 win.

Roosters game too we had a lead and ended up scraping home.

So the pattern is there. For whatever reason we are getting run down in 2nd halves, Just blaming the bench usage is probably too easy but the pattern is there

Bye.

 

[WestyLife]

Bye.

Why be on a forum if discussion isn't wanted. Sorry can't discuss a bad game because the team's had a good few years.

 

[The Realist]

Also, yet to see an alternative bench proposed that would have been anything but a side grade.

The cupboard is quite simply bare atm.

The complaint is not so much the personnel in the team, but more how they lined up; where they played, and the timing of their stints. That same 17 could have been utilised far better than they were, is the argument and I agree.

People on here (me included) have a tendency to lay the blame of a loss on the feet of players. But sometimes the players are severely handicapped by a stint of poor coaching. Ivan has obviously been exceptional for 4 years now, but he does have the odd Dosie and this was one.

One thing about Ivans 2020's 'Pantherball' is how inflexible it is and how dependent it is on certain personnel or personnel types. Once they aren't available, Pantherball falls apart more so than more conventional systems.

For example in 2021, we had Tyrone May play halfback and bunch of times and he wasn't good at it because he was trying to play like Nathan. In this game we had Laurie try to be Dylan Edwards - it just didn't work.

Yes, we have 'replaced parts when necessary, and it's worked', when Luai or Nathan have been missing, when Api left etc.

But as many have noted, Pantherball is built on the back 3. Edwards, To'o and Turuva are the 3 legged stool of Pantherball. You knock one leg out and replace it with a rickety one it can still work e.g. Staines with Edwards and To'o. But you knock two legs out (To'o & Edwards!) and it collapses. McClean did a good job, but he is not a Panther Ball style of winger - he is more like a Critta lite. Coupled with Laurie and it was simple for the Dragons to kick to McClean and blunt our back 3 momentum knowing that Edwards wasn't there and Turuva was on the other side of the field.

Now you couple that with playing props in the 2nd row and the odd rotations and it was a disaster.

 

[Iamback]

Why be on a forum if discussion isn't wanted. Sorry can't discuss a bad game because the team's had a good few years. View attachment 89040

Exactly. Especially when I have been talking the side up for the past 3 years.

This is a forum where you talk about the current state of the team.

Plenty of older threads for those who want to live in the past

 

[ColdWetPanther]

The complaint is not so much the personnel in the team, but more how they lined up; where they played, and the timing of their stints. That same 17 could have been utilised far better than they were, is the argument and I agree.

People on here (me included) have a tendency to lay the blame of a loss on the feet of players. But sometimes the players are severely handicapped by a stint of poor coaching. Ivan has obviously been exceptional for 4 years now, but he does have the odd Dosie and this was one.

One thing about Ivans 2020's 'Pantherball' is how inflexible it is and how dependent it is on certain personnel or personnel types. Once they aren't available, Pantherball falls apart more so than more conventional systems.

For example in 2021, we had Tyrone May play halfback and bunch of times and he wasn't good at it because he was trying to play like Nathan. In this game we had Laurie try to be Dylan Edwards - it just didn't work.

Yes, we have 'replaced parts when necessary, and it's worked', when Luai or Nathan have been missing, when Api left etc.

But as many have noted, Pantherball is built on the back 3. Edwards, To'o and Turuva are the 3 legged stool of Pantherball. You knock one leg out and replace it with a rickety one it can still work e.g. Staines with Edwards and To'o. But you knock two legs out (To'o & Edwards!) and it collapses. McClean did a good job, but he is not a Panther Ball style of winger - he is more like a Critta lite. Coupled with Laurie and it was simple for the Dragons to kick to McClean and blunt our back 3 momentum knowing that Edwards wasn't there and Turuva was on the other side of the field.

Now you couple that with playing props in the 2nd row and the odd rotations and it was a disaster.

The take that we lost that game because of a lack of metres from the back three suggests that you didn’t actually watch the game or are just trying to find a stick to beat the coaching staff with. I know above I have talked about playing Laurie as an Edwards clone, but that is a bugbear rather than the reason we lost.

We lost because we didn’t match their intensity.