Round 18 VS Dragons

[OldPanther]

Not what I said.

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So what do you mean by that? I agreed with both you and Franklin that this period doesn't prove anything in isolation. That was spot on.

What if we become a top 4 week 3 team regularly under him?

I know I sound like an argumentative twit when writing by the way and it's not intentional. I just suck at framing my thoughts properly.

 

[herbert henry1908]

So what do you mean by that? I agreed with both you and Franklin that this period doesn't prove anything in isolation. That was spot on.

What if we become a top 4 week 3 team regularly under him?

I know I sound like an argumentative twit when writing by the way and it's not intentional. I just suck at framing my thoughts properly.

I mean I’m not going to wax lyrical about Ivan Cleary just because we’re on a winning run.

I mentioned above in another post that if we get to week 3 of the finals this hear I’ll give him credit, or we start well next year.

I’ve given credit to plenty of players, but I need more info if I’m going to give credit to Ivan Cleary. We’re talking about a guy with a career win record of 45%, im skeptical he can ever be a really good coach.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Why are you so sure the team was unfit at the start of the season? Just because they trained in a different manner to Griffin doesn’t mean they weren’t fit, nor that fitness was a reason for the poor start to the season.

Alexander angrily refuted on Foxsports that the players weren’t fit enough. He said that he was there everyday and saw how hard they trained in the preseason.

They looked that way to me, and to others.

There was also reports that the team did less fitness work and more ball work over the summer.

Fitness may not have been the only reason we started poorly, but I think it was a contributing factor.

 

[herbert henry1908]

When we first had injury problems in the centres, remember it was Ivans instinct to select second rowers there. Remember Fui in the tigers game? He only brought Naden in when nothing else worked.

He had To’o to select because Philips got sacked for DUI

Tim Grant had to get an injury for Mitch Kenny to come into the squad after Ivan persisting with Katoa for ages.


The only players he dropped were outside backs in Mansour & DWZ.


Most of this was dumb luck, not tactics.

 

[franklin2323]

So what do you mean by that? I agreed with both you and Franklin that this period doesn't prove anything in isolation. That was spot on.

What if we become a top 4 week 3 team regularly under him?

I know I sound like an argumentative twit when writing by the way and it's not intentional. I just suck at framing my thoughts properly.

Same issues for me. DWZ doesn't have his meltdown or whatever To'o doesn't play

Injuries allowed Naden and Kenny to play.

Imo we are still bumbling around if not for the good fortune of those guys coming into the team

 

[franklin2323]

When we first had injury problems in the centres, remember it was Ivans instinct to select second rowers there. Remember Fui in the tigers game? He only brought Naden in when nothing else worked.

He had To’o to select because Philips got sacked for DUI

Tim Grant had to get an injury for Mitch Kenny to come into the squad after Ivan persisting with Katoa for ages.


The only players he dropped were outside backs in Mansour & DWZ.


Most of this was dumb luck, not tactics.

This is what I listed way back when I started the is Ivan a dud thread. Most good things is pure luck than planning

 

[franklin2323]

They looked that way to me, and to others.

There was also reports that the team did less fitness work and more ball work over the summer.

Fitness may not have been the only reason we started poorly, but I think it was a contributing factor.

Several players said how fun the pre season was. Compare to a few Tigers saying how hard theirs was. One coach has an average record. One is a premiership winner tells me we went in underdone

 

[betcats]

A lot of people are quick to criticise slow to give credit to Ivan. He deserves credit for the changes he’s made, he has turned us around not just a few wins and better efforts, 7 games in a row, that’s only happened a few times in the clubs history. Suck it up and give where credit is due instead of trying discredit.

 

[Fangs]

Deserved some criticism earlier in the year. We were a total disgrace, the worst top grade outfit in the entire world (Yes, that includes the ESL). Now deserves some credit for making some decision on the roster and opening up our attack.

He is getting close to Hook level. Can get a team looking absolutely disgusting then turn them into a competitive outfit. If he gets us past week 2 of the finals then he will get a hearty pat on the back.

 

[franklin2323]

A lot of people are quick to criticise slow to give credit to Ivan. He deserves credit for the changes he’s made, he has turned us around not just a few wins and better efforts, 7 games in a row, that’s only happened a few times in the clubs history. Suck it up and give where credit is due instead of trying discredit.

What changes were made were due to coaching and not good luck though?

Kenny, To'o and Naden got their starts due to injuries or poor displine from those infront of them.

Of those 7 wins. Dragons were off a 5 day turnaround, had key players out and had 3 guys playing their 3rd game in 9 games.

GC played shocking

Manly, Souths and Roosters were injury/origin depleted.

While we had taken the chances given. Much of it was dumb luck so far anyway

 

[franklin2323]

Deserved some criticism earlier in the year. We were a total disgrace, the worst top grade outfit in the entire world (Yes, that includes the ESL). Now deserves some credit for making some decision on the roster and opening up our attack.

He is getting close to Hook level. Can get a team looking absolutely disgusting then turn them into a competitive outfit. If he gets us past week 2 of the finals then he will get a hearty pat on the back.

For me we need to back it up from round 1 next year

 

[herbert henry1908]

A lot of people are quick to criticise slow to give credit to Ivan. He deserves credit for the changes he’s made, he has turned us around not just a few wins and better efforts, 7 games in a row, that’s only happened a few times in the clubs history. Suck it up and give where credit is due instead of trying discredit.

What changes specifically?

 

[herbert henry1908]

Deserved some criticism earlier in the year. We were a total disgrace, the worst top grade outfit in the entire world (Yes, that includes the ESL). Now deserves some credit for making some decision on the roster and opening up our attack.

He is getting close to Hook level. Can get a team looking absolutely disgusting then turn them into a competitive outfit. If he gets us past week 2 of the finals then he will get a hearty pat on the back.

The roster decisions were mostly forced on him.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The only significant change I see that he could get credit for is spreading the ball more. Even that I’m not sure if it’s his idea because it’s jut not how his teams have usually played, but he would’ve had to approve it so credit for that.

 

[10Grand]

Hard for a new coach at a club to know the strength &weakness of the squad 100%.Iam certain the training methods next season will be tailored based on where we are at with player development and what the team needs.
I think Ivan recognised a few issues with our attitudes a few weeks into the season and gone about fixing it with what is available rooster wise.Panthers were laughable at one stage but now we are full of applause thanks to Coaching staff and the Players..very exciting to say the least..

 

[herbert henry1908]

Hard for a new coach at a club to know the strength &weakness of the squad 100%.Iam certain the training methods next season will be tailored based on where we are at with player development and what the team needs.
I think Ivan recognised a few issues with our attitudes a few weeks into the season and gone about fixing it with what is available rooster wise.Panthers were laughable at one stage but now we are full of applause thanks to Coaching staff and the Players..very exciting to say the least..

Ivan directly coached at least 8 of our team previously, if there was ever a guy who could walk straight in this was it.


Mansour
DWZ
Blake
Maloney
Grant
Yeo
Whare
RCG

Plus another 7 guys indirectly

Nathan (although I’m sure he coached him directly one on one)
Luai
Katoa
Egan
Edwards
JFH
Leota

 

[franklin2323]

Ivan directly coached at least 8 of our team previously, if there was ever a guy who could walk straight in this was it.


Mansour
DWZ
Blake
Maloney
Grant
Yeo
Whare
RCG

Plus another 7 guys indirectly

Nathan
Luai
Katoa
Egan
Edwards
JFH
Leota

As a father he would of watched every game Nathan played either live or on replay. The coach side of him would of had thoughts on what to fix or not. So no reason

 

[Kilkenny]

The only significant change I see that he could get credit for is spreading the ball more. Even that I’m not sure if it’s his idea because it’s jut not how his teams have usually played, but he would’ve had to approve it so credit for that.

Some of us just want to enjoy the moment and our winning streak we don’t need the non stop negativity about everything.

Can we not just enjoy what we have achieved even if everything isn’t perfect.

 

[Abacus]

I can't help but think Maloney's had a big say at training to influence the change in playing style in recent weeks. Suits him down to the ground and you can see him really taking ownership of the attack on the field.

Much the same as he did when we were struggling under Hook.

 

[OldPanther]

As a father he would of watched every game Nathan played either live or on replay. The coach side of him would of had thoughts on what to fix or not. So no reason

Hey you used him not being able to watch as an argument against me previously!!