Round 18 VS Dragons

[mxlegend99]

Could they play FG before injuries/suspension?

Im not happy with Ivan for various reasons. But To'o, Naden and Kenny being in our NRL team didnt happen because of luck. None of them were options in Round 1 due to a mostly fit and established top 30 that was pretty much set before Ivan got here

But Naden made his debut while Fuimaono was still fit. He was dropped to reserve grade and Naden was picked ahead of him.
To'o came in as we dropped Josh Mansour to reserve grade.

Both guys were prioritised over fit alternatives. Neither was luck. It was Ivan giving guys opportunities ahead of others.

Kenny kind of got a run as a last resort. But it was still a risky play by Ivan picking him from outside our top30 and he immediately promoted him ahead of Katoa when he was able to do so.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I know you don’t like or rate Cleary as a coach, but that’s a load of shit. How does he not deserve credit for promoting Naden, Too and Kenny to first grade? These were players not deemed good enough by Gould or Griffin to be in the top 30. But Cleary picked them and promoted them from outside the top 30, and they have helped totally transform the team. So who else deserves credit for picking them to play first grade?

Anybody who claims that any of the 3 were obvious logical choices to be promoted is delusional. You said he had Too to promote because Phillips was sacked - but he only had Too to select because se he saw the potential in him to promote to him to the top 30 so he could select him. That is only a logical choice in hindsight, but go back and look at the comments about Too on this site after his first grade debut and how little posters on here thought of him, and you will see that was hardly a logical or lucky choice.

Who were more logical? Or at least similarly logical?

The other contenders for those top 30 positions are even younger than the ones selected.

And who besides Cleary would of thought of promoting a Kenny, non hooker outside the 30, to play hooker in first grade? You said that Grant had to be injured for Kenny to come into the squad, but Cleary had picked Keny from nowhere to play hooker, and he got to stay in the squad because of Grants injury, not get picked by Cleary because of Grants injury.

Kenny had played several games in Canterbury cup at hooker before being promoted to the top 30, we even had a poster in these forums calling for him to be the FG hooker well before he was promoted.

And Naden, he had been at 3 clubs without getting a debut in first grade, and again was outside the top 30, and again was not one of the logical choices from reserve grade to be promoted. And in hindsight after 6 weeks of blitzing it looks like an obvious choice, but in reality that was not the case at all going back 6 weeks ago, when the team ,and Cleary in particular, was copping it from everywhere.

Naden wasn’t the logical choice for Cleary, he tried second rowers in the centres first. But who else was the logical choice?

Stephen Chricton is 18, Mcgrady had just returned from an ACL, Jed Cartwright was injured.

I reckon Cartwright gets the nod if he wasn’t injured at the time.

 

[herbert henry1908]

From memory RCG said they did less running, but that doesn’t mean though they were unfit though. There are plenty of different ways to train and just doing a lot of long distance running is old school training methods.

I’m personally happy to believe what Alexander said about how he saw them train every day and knows how fit they were.

Love Brandy, but of course he’s going to defend the choice of the board he’s on.

There were plenty of people who thought the team looked unfit, it wasn’t just speculation on these boards.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Im not happy with Ivan for various reasons. But To'o, Naden and Kenny being in our NRL team didnt happen because of luck. None of them were options in Round 1 due to a mostly fit and established top 30 that was pretty much set before Ivan got here

But Naden made his debut while Fuimaono was still fit. He was dropped to reserve grade and Naden was picked ahead of him.
To'o came in as we dropped Josh Mansour to reserve grade.

Both guys were prioritised over fit alternatives. Neither was luck. It was Ivan giving guys opportunities ahead of others.

Kenny kind of got a run as a last resort. But it was still a risky play by Ivan picking him from outside our top30 and he immediately promoted him ahead of Katoa when he was able to do so.

Fuimanono was no choice at all after the tigers game. Naden was able to be elevated to the top 30 because of the double injury to both Whare & Blake, that’s where the luck comes in. Jed Cartwright was also injured at this point.

He does deserve credit for dropping Mansour at that point for To’o, but again he doesn’t have To’o to be selected if Philips doesn’t do the DUI. MWZ was also injured at this point, so To’o was the only alternative winger to come in.

 

[betcats]

The only significant change I see that he could get credit for is spreading the ball more. Even that I’m not sure if it’s his idea because it’s jut not how his teams have usually played, but he would’ve had to approve it so credit for that.

How can you say this with a straight face? Lol I’m not even going to bother.

 

[franklin2323]

Fuimanono was no choice at all after the tigers game. Naden was able to be elevated to the top 30 because of the double injury to both Whare & Blake, that’s where the luck comes in. Jed Cartwright was also injured at this point.

He does deserve credit for dropping Mansour at that point for To’o, but again he doesn’t have To’o to be selected if Philips doesn’t do the DUI. MWZ was also injured at this point, so To’o was the only alternative winger to come in.

This. It wasn't like these guys were next in line it several players being unavailable to allow the exemption.

Without those injuries we are still plodding around probably had a couple of wins but not where we are

 

[soc123_au]

This thread cracks me up. It the same shit as last year with the pro/anti Griffin shit only the pro & anti teams have swapped sides for Daves mate.

8 weeks ago I would have loved to see Ivan fall on his sword & admit that coming back to coach Nathan was not the smartest move. Now not so much. Teams dont win 7 straight if they are not on the bus so to speak. I still would have preferred creeping jesus until 2021,but here we are & I think the bus is chugging along ok. Luck or not on the kids smashing it, it took some leadership to drop a few highly paid & established first graders. That was an equal catalyst to kicking off the turnaround in results.

 

[Abacus]

Wow, that's some quality meltdown from Mrs Cleary.

You realise it's likely that given the shit start to the year, the reserve grade coach has tipped the NRL coach a couple of players that have been going well in NSW Cup.

Then opportunities present themselves. Lets all just be happy that at least the coach is not picking Fuimaono anymore.

Also, anyone doubting we were unfit at the start of the season go have another look at the first few games. When we were about 2-5 I'd posted that I'd hoped it was a plan to be peaking at the end of the season. It's starting to look that way.

 

[franklin2323]

Wow, that's some quality meltdown from Mrs Cleary.

You realise it's likely that given the shit start to the year, the reserve grade coach has tipped the NRL coach a couple of players that have been going well in NSW Cup.

Then opportunities present themselves. Lets all just be happy that at least the coach is not picking Fuimaono anymore.

Also, anyone doubting we were unfit at the start of the season go have another look at the first few games. When we were about 2-5 I'd posted that I'd hoped it was a plan to be peaking at the end of the season. It's starting to look that way.

Where are this time next year is the key to how much is luck and how much was coaching. It's same reason why I haven't said if letting Blake go was good or not. Who we sign in that case is key and how we back this good couple of months of form too

 

[Crashtest]

Wow, that's some quality meltdown from Mrs Cleary.

You realise it's likely that given the shit start to the year, the reserve grade coach has tipped the NRL coach a couple of players that have been going well in NSW Cup.

Then opportunities present themselves. Lets all just be happy that at least the coach is not picking Fuimaono anymore.

Also, anyone doubting we were unfit at the start of the season go have another look at the first few games. When we were about 2-5 I'd posted that I'd hoped it was a plan to be peaking at the end of the season. It's starting to look that way.

I can’t remember posting anything positive about Cleary since he rejoined the Club, so I’m not a raving Cleary fan. But neither am I a blind Cleary hater.

Teams don’t win seven games in a row on luck. Cleary deserved a lot of the flack he got when we had lost 6 in a row. But when he makes changes and the team go on and win seven straight, he deserves recognition for that as well.

Re your comment about when we were 2-5, there were a number of reasons for why, that doesn’t mean that player fitness was one of them or that they didn’t train hard over the preseason.

 

[herbert henry1908]

How can you say this with a straight face? Lol I’m not even going to bother.

I asked you a sincere question yesterday, what changes do you see that were made he should be credited for?



Ie. Obviously our defence has improved, but what changes were made to make it improve?

Im not saying things haven’t gotten better, I’m asking what can we link Cleary to.

 

[herbert henry1908]

This thread cracks me up. It the same shit as last year with the pro/anti Griffin shit only the pro & anti teams have swapped sides for Daves mate.

8 weeks ago I would have loved to see Ivan fall on his sword & admit that coming back to coach Nathan was not the smartest move. Now not so much. Teams dont win 7 straight if they are not on the bus so to speak. I still would have preferred creeping jesus until 2021,but here we are & I think the bus is chugging along ok. Luck or not on the kids smashing it, it took some leadership to drop a few highly paid & established first graders. That was an equal catalyst to kicking off the turnaround in results.

I haven’t swapped sides.

Always felt Griffin & Cleary were sideways movements.

 

[herbert henry1908]

 

[Dave's mate]

Maybe the worst charge ive seen. He'll get off in about 30 seconds

 

[OldPanther]

No way a shoulder charge sticks. His other arm completely wraps around the player.

 

[Pomoz]

From memory RCG said they did less running, but that doesn’t mean though they were unfit though. There are plenty of different ways to train and just doing a lot of long distance running is old school training methods.

I’m personally happy to believe what Alexander said about how he saw them train every day and knows how fit they were.

Well, regardless of what Alexander saw and what you believe, the results on the field showed that they were unfit compared to last year. Two things changed in 2019, the team coach and the fitness coach. We faded at the end of games, made multiple errors under fatigue, struggled to make metres and failed to break tackles. If it's not fitness, please explain the errors, tackle breaks, lack of metres and pathetic effort they showed as the game went on.

 

[Dave's mate]

Much better to be peaking now then round 1

 

[Pomoz]

Much better to be peaking now then round 1

Yes, indeed. Craig Bellamy lives by that motto, Bennett too. That's why their teams always struggle at the start of the year. They never train them hard and get them fit so they peak at the right time........

I doff my cap to Dave's mate's genius.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Much better to be peaking now then round 1

You don’t want to peak too early, but you don’t want to be as far behind as we were either.

2-3 more wins in our first 10 rounds and we have a good shot at the top 4, even 2nd spot.

 

[MrBlack]

This thread cracks me up. It the same shit as last year with the pro/anti Griffin shit only the pro & anti teams have swapped sides for Daves mate.

8 weeks ago I would have loved to see Ivan fall on his sword & admit that coming back to coach Nathan was not the smartest move. Now not so much. Teams dont win 7 straight if they are not on the bus so to speak. I still would have preferred creeping jesus until 2021,but here we are & I think the bus is chugging along ok. Luck or not on the kids smashing it, it took some leadership to drop a few highly paid & established first graders. That was an equal catalyst to kicking off the turnaround in results.

Agree 100%.

Personally, I 'm really happy with where we are at. Rubbish start to the season but it's all turned around now. Don't really care who is responsible, just happy we did it.

I think the sex scandals have played havoc in a number of clubs this year. Last Friday we saw 2 of the teams involved and only 1 of them has been able to recover from it properly.

Not saying it was our only problem, but it does keep coming up.