Round 18 VS Dragons

[TheEroticGamer]

This sport is in the dark ages when compared to others in terms of tactics. That is reinforced when this sport’s level of journalism is so incredibly shithouse that it leads to people putting so much weight into metrics such as coach’s win rate, strength of draw. Such metrics that are completely baseless when used in isolation.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Highlighting a record that makes him look bad is discrediting him. We all know his history? How does it make the last 7 weeks less impressive?

Anyway many people would argue an ongoing 13 year NRL coaching career is very impressive, especially looking at the average career for an nrl head coach.

No, I was providing context for my lack of praise. I’m not particularly won over by much yet, I need to see more.





The only thing impressive about his 13 year coaching career so far is that he’s managed to keep it going, there isn’t a single coach in 1st grade rugby league history that won their first premiership after the 300 game mark. In a results based industry it’s incredible he’s been able to parlay it into a minimum 17 year coaching career. But that’s just me

 

[herbert henry1908]

This sport is in the dark ages when compared to others in terms of tactics. That is reinforced when this sport’s level of journalism is so incredibly shithouse that it leads to people putting so much weight into metrics such as coach’s win rate, strength of draw. Such metrics that are completely baseless when used in isolation.

A coaches win rate over 13 years is baseless? Seriously?

Hard to see how 13 seasons can be used in isolation, but let’s look further.

Only twice has he coached a team into the top 4, both times 4th spot.

He’s been to one grad final, and two preliminary finals.

He’s an average coach. Maybe slightly below average.

 

[TheEroticGamer]

“When used in isolation”

100%, 200%, abajillion percent.

 

[betcats]

No, I was providing context for my lack of praise. I’m not particularly won over by much yet, I need to see more.





The only thing impressive about his 13 year coaching career so far is that he’s managed to keep it going, there isn’t a single coach in 1st grade rugby league history that won their first premiership after the 300 game mark. In a results based industry it’s incredible he’s been able to parlay it into a minimum 17 year coaching career. But that’s just me

Coaching the warriors for 8 years without getting fired is impressive, taking them to a GF is impressive, that is something that has happened twice in 25 odd years. How is that not impressive? Getting consistency out of the warriors is impressive, how long was it before they went back to the finals after Ivan left?

His top four finish and deep finals run in 2014 was super impressive when you look at who he did it with, at least it was impressive enough for him to win coach of the year.

There are serious flaws in his coaching, but to say he hasn't done anything impressive makes you seem biased against him.

 

[betcats]

A coaches win rate over 13 years is baseless? Seriously?

Hard to see how 13 seasons can be used in isolation, but let’s look further.

Only twice has he coached a team into the top 4, both times 4th spot.

He’s been to one grad final, and two preliminary finals.

He’s an average coach. Maybe slightly below average.

When you just give the number it is certainly.

 

[herbert henry1908]

“When used in isolation”

100%, 200%, abajillion percent.

Hence I provided more. If you don’t see 45% as concerning, what about the fact he’s never coached a team higher than 4th place? Only been deep in the finals twice, never won a grand final?

 

[herbert henry1908]

Coaching the warriors for 8 years without getting fired is impressive, taking them to a GF is impressive, that is something that has happened twice in 25 odd years. How is that not impressive? Getting consistency out of the warriors is impressive, how long was it before they went back to the finals after Ivan left?

His top four finish and deep finals run in 2014 was super impressive when you look at who he did it with, at least it was impressive enough for him to win coach of the year.

There are serious flaws in his coaching, but to say he hasn't done anything impressive makes you seem biased against him.

He coached the warriors for 6 years

The warriors results under him weren’t actually that consistent, this is a myth.

By year

10th
4th
8th
14th
5th
6th

You’re right, though. I shouldn’t have said his coaching length was the only impressive thing he’s done, but he hasn’t done a huge amount given the time he’s been given.

 

[herbert henry1908]

When you just give the number it is certainly.

It’s the number & the years he’s been coaching. Not just the number.

If you’re 45% after 2 years then that’s not a big deal, but when that’s your record over 12.5 seasons, that’s a bigger deal.

 

[forby]

Hence I provided more. If you don’t see 45% as concerning, what about the fact he’s never coached a team higher than 4th place? Only been deep in the finals twice, never won a grand final?

If he is such a lousy coach as you seem to be saying, why is he still an NRL coach. He must bring more to the table than you or I know about!
and I hope you don't bring up Nathan as a reason. He was still wanted at Wests Tigers!

 

[Dave's mate]

Hence I provided more. If you don’t see 45% as concerning, what about the fact he’s never coached a team higher than 4th place? Only been deep in the finals twice, never won a grand final?

Im not a fan of the bloke but 45% with the Warriors, Tigpies and post Elliott Panthers is much more than simply 45%

 

[herbert henry1908]

If he is such a lousy coach as you seem to be saying, why is he still an NRL coach. He must bring more to the table than you or I know about!
and I hope you don't bring up Nathan as a reason. He was still wanted at Wests Tigers!

Good question. It’s a head scratcher given his record, certainly I think his friendship with Dave O’Neill played a big part in him coming to the panthers. We know Gus opposed Ivan coming.

Perhaps there’s also a feeling there’s a lack of decent coaches coming through? Although I suspect some clubs are a bit shy about giving rookie coaches a go.


Also I never said he’s lousy, I said he’s average, maybe a little below average.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Im not a fan of the bloke but 45% with the Warriors, Tigpies and post Elliott Panthers is much more than simply 45%

I felt that way before he came here this year, but the start of the season made me think the previous clubs he’s had may not have been the only issue.

That’s why I say I’ll give him the credit if we go deep in the finals.

 

[betcats]

Im not a fan of the bloke but 45% with the Warriors, Tigpies and post Elliott Panthers is much more than simply 45%

Exactly. Anyone with a basic understanding of the NRL and where Ivan had coached would know to take that figure with a grain of salt.

If Ivan was as bad as his winning percentage he would've never got another NRL job after us, conversely if Hook was as good as his winning percentage he'd be the first coach picked for any club looking for a new coach.

 

[Fangs]

I don't pay a lot of attention to his overall win rate. Its like looking at Nathan Brown's and forgetting he coached one of the worst rosters in the world at the Knights. And as betcats mentioned it means that Anthony Griffin is a superior coach (Which he isn't).

I will however pay attention to his finals record. 1 grand final, no premierships. He has a lot to prove.

 

[betcats]

I don't pay a lot of attention to his overall win rate. Its like looking at Nathan Brown's and forgetting he coached one of the worst rosters in the world at the Knights. And as betcats mentioned it means that Anthony Griffin is a superior coach (Which he isn't).

I will however pay attention to his finals record. 1 grand final, no premierships. He has a lot to prove.

He has to prove he is a good coach and capable of winning a premiership no doubt, for me I just don't think his record proves he is a bad one.

 

[Crashtest]

is that attitude is the problem. What caused that issue? The contract saga with Cleary? It just doesn't make sense to that they start the season so badly. Perhaps the sex tape issue had a far greater impact than anybody realises. You can't really compare it to the De Belin case. Alleged rape is far more serious than filming somebody without consent.

I think your right about the sex tapes having a far bigger impact than realised. Or not just the sex tapes in isolation, but the whole team culture and player behaviour/attitudes that encouraged those sorts of behaviour and incidents occurring.

Remember how shattered Gould was about the culture of the team after he did his initial investigations after the sex tape story broke in the media? It seemed like there was a lot more they uncovered than what was known or reported in the media, and a number of journalist were predicting that Gould was so upset about what he learned that he may resign at that point.

That must of had an impact on the players, whether they were in the clean skin group or the misbehaving group, and then flow on to things like team unity on and off the field, turning up for each other, and doing the effort plays needed to win footy games.

That’s why I don’t think it was about fitness or being unprepared to start the season as the reason for such a woeful start. They just weren’t turning up as a team during the first 10 or so weeks or so, and in some games were never even in the running to win even from the opening whistle. Where as now it’s the exact opposite and they look like two totally different teams - even though in reality only a few new players were added.

 

[maple_69]

I think at the moment he can probably claim a legacy similar to Brian Smith. He has proven above average at taking rabbles and instilling pride, attitude and confidence into a club. He’s done it at every club he’s been at.

This is the first squad he has had with any expectation to get results. I think he is a good coach for bad teams. The next few years will tell the story on whether he is a good coach for good teams as well.

 

[TheEroticGamer]

I will however pay attention to his finals record. 1 grand final, no premierships. He has a lot to prove.

But he’s still much better than “LoL FOrtY-fIvE peRCeNT”

 

[herbert henry1908]

He has to prove he is a good coach and capable of winning a premiership no doubt, for me I just don't think his record proves he is a bad one.

Well I never said bad, I’ve always said average, maybe slightly below average.

He’s competent, but at the moment I’m not sure you can say much more.


The decision to give him a 5 year deal is utter madness.