Round 18 VS Dragons

[herbert henry1908]

I think a lot of this frustration from some of the fans, including me, is because for a third straight season we haven’t improved.

Making the finals is a lot better than not, but there’s a feeling like we’re treading water. Same mistakes, same long periods of poor form.

Maybe next year we’ll finally break through for a top 4 spot.

 

[Dave's mate]

Yes, indeed. Craig Bellamy lives by that motto, Bennett too. That's why their teams always struggle at the start of the year. They never train them hard and get them fit so they peak at the right time........

I doff my cap to Dave's mate's genius.

Last year the fittest teams to start the year where us and St Merge. Both fell in a heap as soon as the comp got serious after origin. Hook and Mary have zero ability to coach anything other than fitness it seems.

 

[Fangs]

Maybe the worst charge ive seen. He'll get off in about 30 seconds

Don't be so sure. We have won 7 in a row and Cotric is out for the Raiders.

 

[Fangs]

I think a lot of this frustration from some of the fans, including me, is because for a third straight season we haven’t improved.

Making the finals is a lot better than not, but there’s a feeling like we’re treading water. Same mistakes, same long periods of poor form.

Maybe next year we’ll finally break through for a top 4 spot.

If we make the finals in 2019 (Ridiculous if we do) then we have had a pro-longed period of reasonable success. 5 out of 6 years making the finals. 3 years second week, 1 year prelim final, this year who knows.

Our club has handled a lot of adversity during that time as well. Coaches being sacked, sex tape scandal, high profile player and staff departures etc. Each time we have bounced back with results. I think it shows we are on the right track.

I think we are well placed in the greater scheme of things. I would trade all of it in for a premiership though.

 

[herbert henry1908]

If we make the finals in 2019 (Ridiculous if we do) then we have had a pro-longed period of reasonable success. 5 out of 6 years making the finals. 3 years second week, 1 year prelim final, this year who knows.

Our club has handled a lot of adversity during that time as well. Coaches being sacked, sex tape scandal, high profile player and staff departures etc. Each time we have bounced back with results. I think it shows we are on the right track.

I think we are well placed in the greater scheme of things. I would trade all of it in for a premiership though.

Improvement needs to come sooner rather than later or it means something is wrong in the coaching or development.

It won’t be good enough to make the finals next year between 5th and 8th, that’s a failure.

In and of itself it’s not a failure, but when you consider the team hasn’t improved for 5 years it is.

 

[MrBlack]

Last year the fittest teams to start the year where us and St Merge. Both fell in a heap as soon as the comp got serious after origin. Hook and Mary have zero ability to coach anything other than fitness it seems.

We've managed the origin period better than most clubs.

I don't buy all this crap about an easy run with opposition teams missing players.

We had both our halves involved in origin (our 2 most expensive players) and have managed to come out of it still firing. Maloney is in season best form right now and no signs of him being rested..

Cleary has done a great job managing this.

 

[Fangs]

Improvement needs to come sooner rather than later or it means something is wrong in the coaching or development.

It won’t be good enough to make the finals next year between 5th and 8th, that’s a failure.

In and of itself it’s not a failure, but when you consider the team hasn’t improved for 5 years it is.

Well finishing 5-8 is definately a failure if they don't win the premiership. Winning the trophy should always be the benchmark. I reckon we will start seeing a few teams win the comp from outside the 4 in the next decade. Its just way too easy to only play well for 50% of the season these days.

All the good clubs have sustained success. You don't see the Roosters or Storm missing the 8 often (If at all). Its why I'm feeling positive if we make the finals this year. We have a lot of players with the right kind of experience now.

Anyway what we have done to this point has us somewhat on the right track. Even with the long-term deals, knifing and poaching of coaches. We are getting something right but also getting something wrong.

 

[herbert henry1908]

We've managed the origin period better than most clubs.

I don't buy all this crap about an easy run with opposition teams missing players.

We had both our halves involved in origin (our 2 most expensive players) and have managed to come out of it still firing. Maloney is in season best form right now and no signs of him being rested..

Cleary has done a great job managing this.

We couldn’t have got Souths, Roosters & Manly at a better time. The talent they were missing was ridiculous.

The run may not have been easy, but it was easier than what it would’ve been at any other point of the season.

Maloney didn’t miss a game for us, Cleary missed 2.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Well finishing 5-8 is definately a failure if they don't win the premiership. Winning the trophy should always be the benchmark. I reckon we will start seeing a few teams win the comp from outside the 4 in the next decade. Its just way too easy to only play well for 50% of the season these days.

All the good clubs have sustained success. You don't see the Roosters or Storm missing the 8 often (If at all). Its why I'm feeling positive if we make the finals this year. We have a lot of players with the right kind of experience now.

Anyway what we have done to this point has us somewhat on the right track. Even with the long-term deals, knifing and poaching of coaches. We are getting something right but also getting something wrong.

Since the introduction of the top 8, 25 years ago, only one team has won from outside the top 4.

I don’t see any reason that would change.

 

[Crashtest]

Well, regardless of what Alexander saw and what you believe, the results on the field showed that they were unfit compared to last year. Two things changed in 2019, the team coach and the fitness coach. We faded at the end of games, made multiple errors under fatigue, struggled to make metres and failed to break tackles. If it's not fitness, please explain the errors, tackle breaks, lack of metres and pathetic effort they showed as the game went on.

I think the last bit of your sentence party answered your own question. Pathetic effort. Plus throw in poor attitude, lack of team work, low confidence in several players returning from injury, the off field dramas like the sex tapes, poor discipline, poor initial coaching for not identifying all these issues earlier and making changes sooner.

I am not arguing with you that they were as fit as last year, nor that Ivan's preseason training methods were right or wrong. I'm just saying that I don't think fitness was the main reason for the poor start to the season. Their worst two performances this season were against week teams in rounds 10 and 11, before starting their winning run in round 12. So they they didn't suddenly get fitter between round 11 and round 12.

If I look at the difference between the team now, and the team prior to round 12, the differences I see isn't about fitness. The difference is in the attitude, effort, team work and passion being shown by the players.

 

[snickers007]

We couldn’t have got Souths, Roosters & Manly at a better time. The talent they were missing was ridiculous.

The run may not have been easy, but it was easier than what it would’ve been at any other point of the season.

Maloney didn’t miss a game for us, Cleary missed 2.

We can only play the team put in front of us.

Keep in mind that we had injury concerns of our own during that period - it wasn't just Cleary & Maloney missing. We have also released our 2 best outside backs of years past, including the incumbent NZ captain.

We should not make apologies for our depth. Our ability to produce NRL ready players should be applauded. And whether it was Cleary, Hook, Gus or another who put in all the work, Cleary is the one who has brought them up and given them the confidence to perform week on week.

It's laughable that anyone (Panthers fan or otherwise) would think that a team featuring To'o, Naden, Martin & Kenny (with less than 10 NRL games each) would go on a 7 game streak - regardless of the opposition.

 

[herbert henry1908]

We can only play the team put in front of us.

Keep in mind that we had injury concerns of our own during that period - it wasn't just Cleary & Maloney missing. We have also released our 2 best outside backs of years past, including the incumbent NZ captain.

We should not make apologies for our depth. Our ability to produce NRL ready players should be applauded. And whether it was Cleary, Hook, Gus or another who put in all the work, Cleary is the one who has brought them up and given them the confidence to perform week on week.

It's laughable that anyone (Panthers fan or otherwise) would think that a team featuring To'o, Naden, Martin & Kenny (with less than 10 NRL games each) would go on a 7 game streak - regardless of the opposition.

Some good points, but several of those teams were still easier to beat than they normally would’ve been.

Hopefully that helps play us in to form for the tougher games ahead, but until we play those tougher games it’s hard to get a read on where we are.


I actually think there’s a strong argument that the youth that came into the team was a big factor in our victories. You can argue their inexperience might’ve cost us, but we were a team in need of a spark, and we still had a good amount of experience out there with those guys. Tamou, Maloney, Yeo, Mansour, Whare, Winterstein. We weren’t the baby broncos or anything.

 

[TheFrog]

We couldn’t have got Souths, Roosters & Manly at a better time. The talent they were missing was ridiculous.

I count 5 regulars missing from the team that played Manly. They cannot have had many more than that. It was 6th vs 15th.

Roosters had some outs but some of them were rested. They still had a lot more household names than us. That was 3rd vs 14th. The Rabbitohs (2nd vs 14th) that took the field against us also look a perfectly adequate side, except for no Burgesses. They won without them the other night in Townsville. I don't really buy this speil that the top 4 sides were depleted. We were depleted too. They all thought they'd win easy and didn't turn up.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I count 5 regulars missing from the team that played Manly. They cannot have had many more than that. It was 6th vs 15th.

Roosters had some outs but some of them were rested. They still had a lot more household names than us. That was 3rd vs 14th. The Rabbitohs (2nd vs 14th) that took the field against us also look a perfectly adequate side, except for no Burgesses. They won without them the other night in Townsville. I don't really buy this speil that the top 4 sides were depleted. We were depleted too. They all thought they'd win easy and didn't turn up.

It’s not just how many, but who.

Manly were missing

Tom Turbo
Jake Turbo
DCE

Their 3 best players

Roosters missing

Mitchell
Keary
Friend
Chricton
JWH

Souths

Adam Reynolds
Sam Burgess
George Burgess
Tom Burgess


As I say, the games were *easier* than they’d normally be.



But if you’re saying we only won because the other teams didn’t turn up, that’s not good for our form line. We’ll know more in the next few weeks.

 

[franklin2323]

It’s not just how many, but who.

Manly were missing

Tom Turbo
Jake Turbo
DCE

Their 3 best players

Roosters missing

Mitchell
Keary
Friend
Chricton
JWH

Souths

Adam Reynolds
Sam Burgess
George Burgess
Tom Burgess


As I say, the games were *easier* than they’d normally be.



But if you’re saying we only won because the other teams didn’t turn up, that’s not good for our form line. We’ll know more in the next few weeks.

Throw Dragons into that basket too. They were there for the taking

 

[franklin2323]

I think a lot of this frustration from some of the fans, including me, is because for a third straight season we haven’t improved.

Making the finals is a lot better than not, but there’s a feeling like we’re treading water. Same mistakes, same long periods of poor form.

Maybe next year we’ll finally break through for a top 4 spot.

This is it for me. Injuries and the different halves every year is why I thought we overachieved under hook.

We never seemed settled. Ivan and those in charge on the same page will help hopefully

 

[franklin2323]

We can only play the team put in front of us.

Keep in mind that we had injury concerns of our own during that period - it wasn't just Cleary & Maloney missing. We have also released our 2 best outside backs of years past, including the incumbent NZ captain.

We should not make apologies for our depth. Our ability to produce NRL ready players should be applauded. And whether it was Cleary, Hook, Gus or another who put in all the work, Cleary is the one who has brought them up and given them the confidence to perform week on week.

It's laughable that anyone (Panthers fan or otherwise) would think that a team featuring To'o, Naden, Martin & Kenny (with less than 10 NRL games each) would go on a 7 game streak - regardless of the opposition.

How many of the 7 would you say we played well in. Parra and Manly game was very poor

 

[snickers007]

How many of the 7 would you say we played well in. Parra and Manly game was very poor

This is a completely different argument.

But, I reckon we've only really played well in 2 games. Last week against the Dragons, and the loss to the Rabbits after Gus left.

Everything else, including the rest of our streak has been pretty ordinary. Patches of good stuff, and some great individual efforts. But no 80 Min performances, and lots of terrible teamwork.

 

[TheFrog]

How many of the 7 would you say we played well in. Parra and Manly game was very poor

All of them. There is not a single one we weren't the better side. If it's the Storm you want, well we're not quite there yet but building towards it.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Throw Dragons into that basket too. They were there for the taking

They were, but it was also one of our best games. We didn't just win, we won well. Especially given we wen't down 12-10 at one stage.