Round 18 VS Dragons

[OldPanther]

Throw Dragons into that basket too. They were there for the taking

To be fair we beat them as a genuine top 8 team should. We won all the key stats and put 40 on them.

 

[franklin2323]

To be fair we beat them as a genuine top 8 team should. We won all the key stats and put 40 on them.

It was best performance since the Dragons game last year. It is just a shame that the opposition was terrible and we didn't get a good game

 

[franklin2323]

This is a completely different argument.

But, I reckon we've only really played well in 2 games. Last week against the Dragons, and the loss to the Rabbits after Gus left.

Everything else, including the rest of our streak has been pretty ordinary. Patches of good stuff, and some great individual efforts. But no 80 Min performances, and lots of terrible teamwork.

I rate that Rabbits game as a better game but the performance we beat anyone.

It isn't just in this run. Sharks were missing heaps the 1st time. Canberra had big outs. Aside from the Storm we played many fully fit in form teams this year

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

I rate that Rabbits game as a better game but the performance we beat anyone.

It isn't just in this run. Sharks were missing heaps the 1st time. Canberra had big outs. Aside from the Storm we played many fully fit in form teams this year

But in saying that, you can only beat what's put in front of you too.

 

[franklin2323]

But in saying that, you can only beat what's put in front of you too.

Of course not the teams fault and was good to take advantage of it. Good think will still to find form is the streak didn't take it out of us

 

[OldPanther]

It was best performance since the Dragons game last year. It is just a shame that the opposition was terrible and we didn't get a good game

You're not wrong. I suspect we'll get that this week.

 

[panther.mike]

Well Ivan damned if you do and damned if you don,t.

 

[franklin2323]

You're not wrong. I suspect we'll get that this week.

And really no reason to expect Canberra not to show up. Will be a great test

 

[Pomoz]

I think the last bit of your sentence party answered your own question. Pathetic effort. Plus throw in poor attitude, lack of team work, low confidence in several players returning from injury, the off field dramas like the sex tapes, poor discipline, poor initial coaching for not identifying all these issues earlier and making changes sooner.

I am not arguing with you that they were as fit as last year, nor that Ivan's preseason training methods were right or wrong. I'm just saying that I don't think fitness was the main reason for the poor start to the season. Their worst two performances this season were against week teams in rounds 10 and 11, before starting their winning run in round 12. So they they didn't suddenly get fitter between round 11 and round 12.

If I look at the difference between the team now, and the team prior to round 12, the differences I see isn't about fitness. The difference is in the attitude, effort, team work and passion being shown by the players.

These are good points you make. The corollary of your point that the worst performances were in round 11 after 10 weeks of games, which should have seem them fit by then, is that attitude is the problem. What caused that issue? The contract saga with Cleary? It just doesn't make sense to that they start the season so badly. Perhaps the sex tape issue had a far greater impact than anybody realises. You can't really compare it to the De Belin case. Alleged rape is far more serious than filming somebody without consent.

 

[betcats]

Well Ivan damned if you do and damned if you don,t.

People want to blame him for our losses and give him zero credit when we are winning. Its so illogical. We have 3 guys who weren't even in the FG squad now starting and playing big roles(2 of them are basically starring) for us but he gets no credit for that cause it was basically dumb luck that we had to pick those guys and that they went so well, its so ridiculous if you ask me. You cannot hold a person responsible for the teams performance without given them some credit for the successes the team has, any argument otherwise is ridiculous.

 

[OldPanther]

People want to blame him for our losses and give him zero credit when we are winning. Its so illogical. We have 3 guys who weren't even in the FG squad now starting and playing big roles for us but he gets no credit for that cause it was basically dumb luck that we had to pick those guys and that they went so well, its so ridiculous if you ask me. You cannot hold a person responsible for the teams performance without given them some credit for the successes the team has, any argument otherwise is ridiculous.

Yeah it goes both ways. If the success is luck does that mean the failure was as well?

 

[herbert henry1908]

People want to blame him for our losses and give him zero credit when we are winning. Its so illogical. We have 3 guys who weren't even in the FG squad now starting and playing big roles(2 of them are basically starring) for us but he gets no credit for that cause it was basically dumb luck that we had to pick those guys and that they went so well, its so ridiculous if you ask me. You cannot hold a person responsible for the teams performance without given them some credit for the successes the team has, any argument otherwise is ridiculous.

Sincere question, what is it you think Ivan did to turn things around? Other than the selections of some young guys.

He should get *some* credit, but the credit shouldn’t be effusive, we have 13 years of info to show he’s not a particularly great coach.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Yeah it goes both ways. If the success is luck does that mean the failure was as well?

You need to look at a broader context. 13 years, 45% win rate. That says he’s not a good coach. So of course he’s going to get more criticism than praise.

 

[martielang]

People want to blame him for our losses and give him zero credit when we are winning. Its so illogical. We have 3 guys who weren't even in the FG squad now starting and playing big roles(2 of them are basically starring) for us but he gets no credit for that cause it was basically dumb luck that we had to pick those guys and that they went so well, its so ridiculous if you ask me. You cannot hold a person responsible for the teams performance without given them some credit for the successes the team has, any argument otherwise is ridiculous.

Hang on a minute, didn't the exact thing happen with Hook last year? Everything good was put down to 'natural talent'...

But like I believed Hook deserved credit for the positive things in the last few years, i believe the same for Cleary at the moment.

 

[betcats]

Sincere question, what is it you think Ivan did to turn things around? Other than the selections of some young guys.

He should get *some* credit, but the credit shouldn’t be effusive, we have 13 years of info to show he’s not a particularly great coach.

Don't know, don't care. All I know is there is a huge turn around in effort and application since that losing steak and we are playing a better style of footy.

 

[herbert henry1908]

If a coach with 13 years experience, who’d won 60% of his games, been deep in the finals, maybe even won a grand final had the start to the season we did then he’d be cut some slack.

But with Ivan it reinforced perceptions that he’s not a good coach, so he needs to do a lot more than 7 wins is a row to win people over. Go deep in the finals, make the final four.

 

[betcats]

Hang on a minute, didn't the exact thing happen with Hook last year? Everything good was put down to 'natural talent'...

But like I believed Hook deserved credit for the positive things in the last few years, i believe the same for Cleary at the moment.

When we went on a run of good form with Maloney early last year I swallowed my pride and gave hook and jimmy credit on here(id been negative about them both). I think it was after that dragons game when we played very well last season.

 

[betcats]

If a coach with 13 years experience, who’d won 60% of his games, been deep in the finals, maybe even won a grand final had the start to the season we did then he’d be cut some slack.

But with Ivan it reinforced perceptions that he’s not a good coach, so he needs to do a lot more than 7 wins is a row to win people over. Go deep in the finals, make the final four.

Still trying to discredit him. No one praised him for the last 13 years, just the last 7 weeks, why are you bringing up all that rubbish? You don't have to be 'won over' just to admit that he has done well to get us out of that hole.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Still trying to discredit him. No one praised him for the last 13 years, just the last 7 weeks, why are you bringing up all that rubbish? You don't have to be 'won over' just to admit that he has done well to get us out of that hole.

I don’t need to discredit him, his record speaks for itself.

My point was to explain people’s lack of praise.

 

[betcats]

I don’t need to discredit him, his record speaks for itself.

My point was to explain people’s lack of praise.

Highlighting a record that makes him look bad is discrediting him. We all know his history? How does it make the last 7 weeks less impressive?

Anyway many people would argue an ongoing 13 year NRL coaching career is very impressive, especially looking at the average career for an nrl head coach.