Round 25 V Newcastle

[TheEroticGamer]

If you think Cleary haters are acting dramatic now, just wait till they find out that we’re all gonna die one day.

 

[GoldCoastPather]

A myth?!? Please, Brandy was a freak playing in a different era. That nonsense aside.

If the collective football brains of the NSW team all have faith in him, why is it so outrageous that we do too??

What do you know about rugby league that they don’t or can’t see?

Please stop bagging our future. Nathan is our future.

 

[mxlegend99]

Today was nice, it was enjoyable, but at the end of the day it meant nothing.

Yet the record Nathan set will still stand until someone else breaks it. Considering it was 4 points greater than the previous records chances are it will be longer before someone else matches or beats it. If it ever happens.

The win might not have put us in finals. But it will forever be a big part of our history considering the record Cleary set.

 

[Fangs]

Please stop bagging our future. Nathan is our future.

Well said!

 

[Abacus]

Well, this has been much more dramatic reading than I expected after a comprehensive win.

FWIW, I'd like to thank the Knights for their self-application of lube pre-game. Egan being willing to run (& making 10 metres or so) on the 2nd or 3rd play of the game should give some indication of the Knights attitude today.

Still there were some good performances from the Panthers to take advantage of it. Cleary should definitely be acknowledged for his performance today. While plenty are arguing for or against based on this game, I'll be more interested in what we see in the first 10-12 games of 2020.

In the meantime, what a way to kick-off Mad Monday! Remember, phones/cameras away boys.

 

[mxlegend99]

Ponga has actually performed in Origin though...

Look I know Nathan is a touchy subject in our fanbase but lets be honest, Ponga is probably the most talented player the NRL has seen since Hayne, he was poor today but Ponga at his best is miles ahead of Cleary at his best.

Name one game he has ever had that was better than Nathan today though.

Should be easy if he's miles ahead of Nathan at his best.

 

[OldPanther]

Name one game he has ever had that was better than Nathan today though.

Should be easy if he's miles ahead of Nathan at his best.

I'd take Nathan at his best over Ponga. Ponga has a great step and pass but seems to lack work ethic(just a guess from someone who doesn't know him.)

 

[Sime_11]

Ponga is just an expensive Moylan, Nathan had a blinder today and has looked good in recent weeks, but unfortunately he’s the dominant half from now, so he will be targeted heavily and teams will shore up their defence when he attacks the line.

It was a great performance for the fans today but it must be reiterated that the knights were piss poor today, most teams should have put at least 40 on this knights team that’s how poor they performed.

But we can only win against who we play, so good performance, use this as motivation for pre season and start ripping in for the assault on the 2020 premiership

 

[maple_69]

Was stoked to see Burns, Crichton and Leniu looking a bit more at home out there.

 

[Flashstep]

Name one game he has ever had that was better than Nathan today though.

Should be easy if he's miles ahead of Nathan at his best.

Origin 1 this year and that was clearly a bigger game than the pointless one today.

He also came 2nd in the Daily Ms last year so I’m sure you could pick out a game somewhere from last season.

Anyway my point is Ponga has shown a lot more quality consistently than Cleary, Cleary at his best is a great player but we rarely ever see it, Cleary is clearly at least 2 tiers below him as a player.

Ask any NRL fan and they would all tell you they’d rather pay 900k-1M on Ponga over Cleary

 

[age.s]

Ask any NRL fan and they would all tell you they’d rather pay 900k-1M on Ponga over Cleary

Can I choose neither?

 

[forby]

Ponga is ‘potentially’ ............
Isn’t that what Penrith fans get accused of saying?

 

[mxlegend99]

[

Origin 1 this year and that was clearly a bigger game than the pointless one today.

He also came 2nd in the Daily Ms last year so I’m sure you could pick out a game somewhere from last season.

Anyway my point is Ponga has shown a lot more quality consistently than Cleary, Cleary at his best is a great player but we rarely ever see it, Cleary is clearly at least 2 tiers below him as a player.

Ask any NRL fan and they would all tell you they’d rather pay 900k-1M on Ponga over Cleary

The occassion was bigger..but its a pretty huge stretch to say 2 try assists is a better performance than 4 tries and a try assist.

Throw in defence and Ponga had a 33% tackle efficiency in his game while Nathan had 90%. But if you think that's better than Nathans efforts yesterday you're entitled to your opinion.

That said. We'll see how highly Ponga stays rated as the best young player in the game if he keeps missing finals footy and losing Origin series. When he's on and just about any club would trade their fullback for him in an instant. Including us.

But if he keeps missing finals series will his reputation stay the same? IMO Ponga is starting to be judged on more than just his flashy moments ... he is also being judged on his poor defence and the fact that his teams are mostly unsuccessful. If you look through match threads his reputation has gone backwards. Just as many young star players do.

I think 2020 is crucial to how Ponga is judged. Just as it will be with Cleary. If either one misses the finals again their reputation will take a big hit... and Nathan especially has none anymore. Ponga could save his with an Origin series win..although Nathan could win his 3rd series in a row and not save his. QLD have a shit reputation so it doesnt count.

 

[betcats]

No it kills me that 8 teams are preparing for finals tomorrow and we aren't one of them.

It kills all of us but the fans who show up no matter what(I’m not one of them) are the reason the club is still around through all these bad years not the reason we struggle, they should be celebrated.

 

[betcats]

What I’m saying is, in the long run, passing is more important attribute for a 7 than running. He’s an excellent runner of the ball, but that skill is more suited somewhere else. You’re not going to get many opportunities to carve up a team by running the ball, good passing will break down a defence more often.

He has good vision for running through a gap, but when it comes to putting someone else through a gap he doesn’t.

He’s now twice finished a season with more tries than try assists, that’s unusual for a 7.

He passes the ball. Him not being able to pass is a complete myth fabricated by his haters on here. Kevin Walters was describing his play after his second try as ‘perfect halfback play’ that’s a direct quote, I really don’t know what you are on about.

He would’ve had two try assists if not for Edwards dropping it over the line, he played a brilliant game and you are trying to use it as an example he shouldn’t be playing the position he just carved up in, it’s really quite silly.

Edit: Nathan threw a pass that cutout Whare and put Crichton in a little space yesterday and the caller said “nice cutout pass from cleary” and I laughed to myself, certain posters on here would find a reason why that wasn’t a nice cut out pass if given the chance that’s how silly some of the talk about Nathan is getting.

 

[Flashstep]

[

The occassion was bigger..but its a pretty huge stretch to say 2 try assists is a better performance than 4 tries and a try assist.

Throw in defence and Ponga had a 33% tackle efficiency in his game while Nathan had 90%. But if you think that's better than Nathans efforts yesterday you're entitled to your opinion.

That said. We'll see how highly Ponga stays rated as the best young player in the game if he keeps missing finals footy and losing Origin series. When he's on and just about any club would trade their fullback for him in an instant. Including us.

But if he keeps missing finals series will his reputation stay the same? IMO Ponga is starting to be judged on more than just his flashy moments ... he is also being judged on his poor defence and the fact that his teams are mostly unsuccessful. If you look through match threads his reputation has gone backwards. Just as many young star players do.

I think 2020 is crucial to how Ponga is judged. Just as it will be with Cleary. If either one misses the finals again their reputation will take a big hit... and Nathan especially has none anymore. Ponga could save his with an Origin series win..although Nathan could win his 3rd series in a row and not save his. QLD have a shit reputation so it doesnt count.

I don't really look at stats as much as a lot of NRL fans do but if we're gonna do stats Ponga that game also ran for 150M. had 2 offloads, 1 line break, 7 Tackle Breaks and 2 Line Break assists.

I'm probably going to sound like a massive wanker here but I think a lot of NRL fans suffer from judging players very stupidly and with a lot of recency bias, Ponga has had a bad end to the season for sure but people are very quick to forget that he's only a young player, if us Penrith fans want to give Cleary time to develop as a player why is it fair to not give Ponga the same amount of leeway young players deserve.

Ponga really shouldn't get any hate for not being able to drag Newcastle to the finals by himself, they finished dead last 2 seasons ago with 4 wins ffs, and he has performed very well individually for QLD. I tend to avoid judging players based off of reputation because if reputation was the be all and end all Nathan Cleary, a 21 year old halfback who has won 2 state of origin series already would be heralded as the best young player in the game, in fact he pretty much was until his reputation began to slide due to his individual performances not matching the hype he has on him.

 

[franklin2323]

I don't really look at stats as much as a lot of NRL fans do but if we're gonna do stats Ponga that game also ran for 150M. had 2 offloads, 1 line break, 7 Tackle Breaks and 2 Line Break assists.

I'm probably going to sound like a massive wanker here but I think a lot of NRL fans suffer from judging players very stupidly and with a lot of recency bias, Ponga has had a bad end to the season for sure but people are very quick to forget that he's only a young player, if us Penrith fans want to give Cleary time to develop as a player why is it fair to not give Ponga the same amount of leeway young players deserve.

Ponga really shouldn't get any hate for not being able to drag Newcastle to the finals by himself, they finished dead last 2 seasons ago with 4 wins ffs, and he has performed very well individually for QLD. I tend to avoid judging players based off of reputation because if reputation was the be all and end all Nathan Cleary, a 21 year old halfback who has won 2 state of origin series already would be heralded as the best young player in the game, in fact he pretty much was until his reputation began to slide due to his individual performances not matching the hype he has on him.

I agree with this. Look at one game or even 1 year in isolation can paint a different picture.

Over the whole year

Ponga 11 tries. 11 try assists. And 2 assists in Origin.

Cleary 10 tries. 10 try assists. 0 in origin

Last year

Ponga 10 tries. 10 try assists. 1 assist in origin

Cleary 6 tries. 8 assists. 0 in origin. Granted he was injured but over the last 2 years Ponga has better numbers

 

[mxlegend99]

I agree with this. Look at one game or even 1 year in isolation can paint a different picture.

Over the whole year

Ponga 11 tries. 11 try assists. And 2 assists in Origin.

Cleary 10 tries. 10 try assists. 0 in origin

Last year

Ponga 10 tries. 10 try assists. 1 assist in origin

Cleary 6 tries. 8 assists. 0 in origin. Granted he was injured but over the last 2 years Ponga has better numbers

Yet the stat that matters most (wins) Cleary is destroying Ponga in. Both in Origin and the NRL. Although neither have an acceptable NRL win rate for elite players.

Edit
I think the player with Origin series wins and finals series wins/appearances gets the edge.

Ponga is an unreal talent. But hasnt won shit

 

[chrisD]

Meaningless game, meaningless discussions. Our biggest problem by far and away is we can't break down defences, so when we play teams with already broken defences we look fine. Same thing under Griffin.

 

[Crashtest]

Today was nice, it was enjoyable, but at the end of the day it meant nothing.

For this season I agree, but I think it meant a lot for next season, and even for the preseason.

Especially for Nathan. To me he looked focused on making a statement that he has ready to make this team his own. And after the game he had, even allowing for the way Newcastle played, he certainly made it. It should give him some confidence to take into preseason that he is now ready to lead this team, and hopefully confidence to the other players that he can be as well. Without the loud dominating voice of Maloney in the background.