Round 4 Vs Warriors

[Dave's mate]

The Debate over Luai or Burton Will have to wait
Apparently Luai Has a MCL injury from Friday’s game
May miss a few games

Ivan is such a flukey f**ker with injuries making the hard decisions for him. Moylan coming in is a perfect example of it

 

[franklin2323]

Not in a million years, but with our forward pack there’s room to be bold if he wanted to.

As it sits now we have the 4th best attack without Edwards playing a game. So that will buy time after these next 3 games we will see where we sit. Struggle and it will force Ivan’s hand

 

[franklin2323]

Ivan is such a flukey f**ker with injuries making the hard decisions for him. Moylan coming in is a perfect example of it

It is one constant through his coaching

 

[franklin2323]

Double

 

[herbert henry1908]

As it sits now we have the 4th best attack without Edwards playing a game. So that will buy time after these next 3 games we will see where we sit. Struggle and it will force Ivan’s hand

We’re 6th in attack, but we’ve only played one strong team on the day (Newcastle are good but they had a heap of injuries)

Next 3 weeks are huge, and might force Ivan’s hand if the backs don’t score much. Eels, Storm & then the Bunnies

 

[franklin2323]

We’re 6th in attack, but we’ve only played one strong team on the day (Newcastle are good but they had a heap of injuries)

Next 3 weeks are huge, and might force Ivan’s hand if the backs don’t score much. Eels, Storm & then the Bunnies

We have yet to field our top side yet so that will buy us some time

 

[franklin2323]

Not suggesting Burton didn’t play well, I’m saying we’ve seen this all before in regards to the next big thing. This time that might just be right.

If Luai had played 30-40 games in the halves then Burton’s inexperience would be more relevant as a factor to put him in front. But Luai has only played 10 games in the halves, I think there’s room for improvement with him as well.

And only played well in one of those games. Burton on the other hand has been involved in all 3 he has played. Out played Luai in trials and the last couple of games.

Luai is good enough for the 17. I just don’t see him as a half

 

[betcats]

Not suggesting Burton didn’t play well, I’m saying we’ve seen this all before in regards to the next big thing. This time that might just be right.

If Luai had played 30-40 games in the halves then Burton’s inexperience would be more relevant as a factor to put him in front. But Luai has only played 10 games in the halves, I think there’s room for improvement with him as well.

That’s a cop out re experience imo. Luai debuted early in 2018, he’s been getting first grade training and experience for years. He got to learn off Jimmy for two years. He has played 5 games of international footy, and he is a few years older which is also a factor. There is definitely a big difference in experience.

In regards to seeing it all before with next big thing, I mean some highly rated kids kick on and some don’t, it doesn’t suggest anything in regards to Burton, it’s not a reason to pick Luai over him. We have the last two games to compare them, pick who was better and put him next to Nathan.

In the last two games Burton has created more opportunities, broke more tackles, made less errors, kicked for more metres, made more tackles and missed less of them. His 5th tackle kicks need to improve but exact same thing is true for Luai.

 

[betcats]

I said last year Crichton was a talent. It was why I wasn’t worried about the backs long term. Just get Whare out for Naden and then the backline is where it should be

Naden has to take Whare or Sauces spot for mine. I know he has some defensive issues but he makes up for them by being one of those guys who scores tries and he is faster than both Sauce and Whare. If Ivan is that worried about his defence drop sauce, switch To'o to the other side and let Naden play outside Whare and hopefully learn something. This gives us a good kicking target on both sides and puts our best finisher(To'o) on the left side where he should get a lot more opportunities. To me having Sauce play on the left is insane, that is our best attacking side and Sauce isnt a good finisher anymore and hes never been a good passer or good at positioning himself when he makes a break. To'o would be much better off there for mine.

 

[herbert henry1908]

That’s a cop out re experience imo. Luai debuted early in 2018, he’s been getting first grade training and experience for years. He got to learn off Jimmy for two years. He has played 5 games of international footy, and he is a few years older which is also a factor. There is definitely a big difference in experience.

In regards to seeing it all before with next big thing, I mean some highly rated kids kick on and some don’t, it doesn’t suggest anything in regards to Burton, it’s not a reason to pick Luai over him. We have the last two games to compare them, pick who was better and put him next to Nathan.

In the last two games Burton has created more opportunities, broke more tackles, made less errors, kicked for more metres, made more tackles and missed less of them. His 5th tackle kicks need to improve but exact same thing is true for Luai.

Nothing beats first grade game experience. Luai last year was chopped and changed, sometimes only receiving 10 mins. The experience difference isn’t that big.

I wasn’t suggesting having seen it all before is a reason not to pick Burton, what I’m suggesting is let’s not get ahead of ourselves with definitive judgements. There’s still a lot to learn about which player might suit the team best, or which positions might be best for them. Burton has only played one game outside of Cleary, albeit very well.

 

[herbert henry1908]

We have yet to field our top side yet so that will buy us some time

Mansour & Whare haven’t shown much in attack for a long time. Our top side isn’t going to change much for their impact.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I’m totally fine with selecting Burton at 5/8 over Luai, I can see the arguments for it. All I’m saying is I’m not convinced it’s a done deal forever. 3 games is not enough to make that call.

It’s also possible the balance for the team would be best having Burton at FB. Would allow us more flexibility in attack.

 

[betcats]

Nothing beats first grade game experience. Luai last year was chopped and changed, sometimes only receiving 10 mins. The experience difference isn’t that big.

I wasn’t suggesting having seen it all before is a reason not to pick Burton, what I’m suggesting is let’s not get ahead of ourselves with definitive judgements. There’s still a lot to learn about which player might suit the team best, or which positions might be best for them. Burton has only played one game outside of Cleary, albeit very well.

Fair enough, I know it is too early to make definitive judgements on their futures but as of right now its not a stretch at all to say Burton looks like a equally impactful player, and its also pretty logical to say he has more room to improve, or another way of putting it is he is a couple of years behind Jerome is his development, Jerome has been paid to be a pro NRL player for a couple of years more than Burton. He has had years more to get his kicking right, to get his defence right, to work on his strength and fitness etc

 

[herbert henry1908]

And only played well in one of those games. Burton on the other hand has been involved in all 3 he has played. Out played Luai in trials and the last couple of games.

Luai is good enough for the 17. I just don’t see him as a half

Luai has showed enough to be a FG half, it’s just a question of who’s better.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Naden has to take Whare or Sauces spot for mine. I know he has some defensive issues but he makes up for them by being one of those guys who scores tries and he is faster than both Sauce and Whare. If Ivan is that worried about his defence drop sauce, switch To'o to the other side and let Naden play outside Whare and hopefully learn something. This gives us a good kicking target on both sides and puts our best finisher(To'o) on the left side where he should get a lot more opportunities. To me having Sauce play on the left is insane, that is our best attacking side and Sauce isnt a good finisher anymore and hes never been a good passer or good at positioning himself when he makes a break. To'o would be much better off there for mine.

I really like this idea.

It makes so much sense to have a better finisher on our stronger side, plus Naden will give Cleary a strong finisher on his side. Whare would eventually be replaced in the centres as well, maybe Naden can move back in when he’s improved his defence.

 

[betcats]

I really like this idea.

It makes so much sense to have a better finisher on our stronger side, plus Naden will give Cleary a strong finisher on his side. Whare would eventually be replaced in the centres as well, maybe Naden can move back in when he’s improved his defence.

Yeah i dont see any downside to it other than having to drop a guy everyone loves(Sauce). On paper it seems like it makes us stronger.

 

[soc123_au]

Something no one seems to consider with Sauce is the fact he makes big metres gives more juice to the forwards to do what they do. Maybe it's that he has been so good for us in the past clouding reality. It's a tough one.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Something no one seems to consider with Sauce is the fact he makes big metres gives more juice to the forwards to do what they do. Maybe it's that he has been so good for us in the past clouding reality. It's a tough one.

I just don’t think it’s enough to make up for his lack of attack and his defensive liabilities under the high ball.

 

[Pomoz]

Something no one seems to consider with Sauce is the fact he makes big metres gives more juice to the forwards to do what they do. Maybe it's that he has been so good for us in the past clouding reality. It's a tough one.

I get your angst. Sauce is a whole hearted player. He leaves nothing off the table. You get everything he has and more. He will willingly get absolutely smashed by men twice his size and gives up 30kg to most of the props he runs at. Yet, they can't put him down. He is strong as an Ox and brave as a Lion. If only some of our other players had his commitment to the team we would be better for it. The sad truth is though, the team needs tries and speed and Sauce can't give you that. He is only going to get slower.

I think he is shaping up to be a bench forward, like Chris Lawrence or McQueen at Souths. Never mind his size, Tonie Carol and David Gillespie were never big, but they did a great job for their team. He could make a big impact coming off the bench into lock or the back row, bringing the ball forward and giving energy to our team. His defence is fine against slower players, he won't get run around by props or back rowers.

 

[Panther79]

Can't really believe it is a debate. All things being equal Burton clearly is the better player at the moment. Now taking all other factors like Luai having more experience in the top grade etc, it just makes it more of a clearer decision. Apart from that one game against the Warriors years back, I really haven't seen enough apart from him jinking side ways going no where and then dumping the ball to a flat footed player to take the hit.