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Round 6 v Souths

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,534
Maybe ditch Kingston and have a try of this for a few games.
Moylan to five eighth after half an hour, Wallace into hooker for Segs and DWZ into fullback.
 
Messages
17,744
People will say he's not ready but I'd pick Cartwright on the bench. Drop Kingston and have 2 back rowers and 2 props on the bench. We need offloads
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
We are 6 rounds inand he hasn't even played every game but he's already a protected species? What the f**k am I reading?

Lets look at things. 1st year of 3 year contract, Captain. Soward/Wallace will be our halves injury permitting all season. So we need to play around them.
 

BxTom

Bench
Messages
2,650
The last two weeks conditions have been atrocious. The halves will have been playing wet weather football - keeping it simple with little or no opportunity (or encouragement from the coach) for them to shine. Along with this, they have only had three games together - one where Soward was limited with back spasms. Give them some time people. I think with a bit of fine weather, you will see a whole new team...


TOm.
 

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,165
The weather is a convenient excuse, I know. But the wet weather was as much of a handicap for our opponents as it was for us; didn't prevent Souths from managing to actually win the game. I think we were better than Canberra on the night, and as such I didn't sit round thinking, well, on a dry day, their attack probably would have really clicked! Don't see why I should be doing it with my own team. Our attack, the second half of the very first game aside, when we were helped by opponent injuries, has been consistently poor. And I don't see it as being merely bad form; we simply do not have very many attacking weapons. But I think the coach could do more with the attacking plays, which would help.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,296
Wallace is better than John because?

Because he's played better this year.

John's done nothing this year in first grade to justify selection over him. His kicking game has been sub-par and just because he takes the line on twice does not justify him getting a position in bloody first grade.

That enough?
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,296
The weather is a convenient excuse, I know. But the wet weather was as much of a handicap for our opponents as it was for us; didn't prevent Souths from managing to actually win the game. I think we were better than Canberra on the night, and as such I didn't sit round thinking, well, on a dry day, their attack probably would have really clicked! Don't see why I should be doing it with my own team. Our attack, the second half of the very first game aside, when we were helped by opponent injuries, has been consistently poor. And I don't see it as being merely bad form; we simply do not have very many attacking weapons. But I think the coach could do more with the attacking plays, which would help.

We played to the weather and have a record of 2-2 in the rain. So we've done ok and tbh we should have won that Melbourne game if not for a dodgy f**king ref. So it should have been 3-1.

So what exactly is the problem? The fact we aren't scoring 30 points a game in the bloody wet? Given we are 2-2 and one of those losses was dodgy neither are our bloody opponents apparently.

We've played to the conditions and just because Souths did better on the night and didn't miss a tackle till the 55th minute in a freakish defensive display we need to change the whole bloody team around? Come on lets be real here.

Wet weather football to its fundamental core is protect the football and high percentage plays. Throwing the ball around will only have resulted in more errors on a night like Friday. We have been in a position where we have focused on our defense and that will then benefit us down the track as we know we have the Def to hold any team to 18 points or less on most days - That is what all top 4 teams historically have in common and it is what we are building.

We do not need to reinvent the wheel here. The fundamentals are there for a very good football team. Our defense has been the best it has been in over a decade. We have a developing halves combination and some players learning to play with each other and developing attacking combinations.

The only changes I would make...is what I have said before - Kingston out with Tyrone Peachey in with Seg starting and Peachey/Brown rotating hooking role if Seg cannot play 80 minutes. And then bringing Plum back in whether it be for any of the props I couldn't care less.

Other than that I wouldn't make any drastic changes. Eventually I'd like to see Brown or Docker be displaced by Bryce Cartwright but he needs to prove he can handle the load defensively or maybe VTK comes back and proves he is a first grader. The other option is obviously Matt Robinson.

As for the backs, I'd like to see Nabuli get a go but I doubt he will unless Mansour signs elsewhere and then the coach just drops him. Maybe he gets a go with DWZ going back to NSW Cup to hone his craft but I think Simmons will come back in for DWZ.

Overall though, we are a shitload better team than this point last year. We are very unlucky not to be on 4 wins from 6 at present. There is no reason to make wholesale changes when we haven't really seen what the potential of this team is yet.

If in the middle of the year we are outside the top 8 and we are not putting it together and combinations are obviously not working...then yeah lets have productive discussion about it...but until then there is no point imo.

The other point guys look at who we are arguing over - "Peachey over Brown. RCG over Latimore, John over Wallace, Nabuli/Naiqama over Mansour/Simmons, DWZ over Moylan". There is no freaking Ciraldo, Newton, Walsh, Purtell to be seen here. It is a hugely better team that is developing combinations as they get to know one another's games. Let them at least do that before sticking the knife in please.
 

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,165
Good comments, except I don't think there should be some sort of gentlemen's agreement to not discuss performances until halfway through the season....that strikes me as.....odd.

Anyway, you can't say we are "unlucky" to not be on four wins because of the Melbourne game because the Bulldogs game was equally as lucky for us; so we could just as easily be on two wins out of six. That's why arguing about the actual results is less interesting than arguing the actual selections, tactics, and performances - which I personally think have been generally subpar so far. I just like to postulate why that is, or to hear why people think our attack is fine and we just need to wait for this magical "clicking" to just happen.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,296
Good comments, except I don't think there should be some sort of gentlemen's agreement to not discuss performances until halfway through the season....that strikes me as.....odd.

Not saying anything of the sort.

I'm saying we can't be greatly informed of the combinations until at least half way through the season at which point our discussions would be more productive than just making changes for the sake of it.

We haven't been able to see the true potential of the team yet due to both weather and developing combinations so what evidence do we have that it simply cannot work?

Hence why I said lets re-assess half way through the year once combinations have time to develop.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,296
I don't think it is a case of clicking, more a case of timing.

The guys are learning when it is to run off each other, how to know what each other is doing on the field.

We've accomplished this on defense for the most part...but still developing in attack.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Because he's played better this year.

It's all relative. I think the fact Wallace is a local people see him in a different light either way Wallace won't go.

Considering Wallace groin went after training John won't of done much training with Soward so that needs to be brought into it. Stats aren't that impressive from Wallace.

Every kick against Melb went straight to Slater. watch the replay of the game on Fri night. So many times he kicked early when we were on the attack. A dummy & go or a short ball to a forward atleast once might of opened them up.

Aside from the kick that bounced back to Larimore & the kick to DWZ (after 10 misses) he has done nothing.
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,667
The NSW Cup game against the Tigers was a real hard fought affair and to that end I didn't think any of our guys stood out in particular. It was a good tough team win.

Peachy - Robinson played the full 80 and both went well. Nabuli was fairly quiet and didn't have a lot of opportunities in attach but did take a couple of really difficult bombs. Kevin N scored a try, just had to finish off simple finish but otherwise like Nabuli had little opportunity to shine. Will Smith scored a couple of tries and is certainly lively.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
but still developing in attack.

Are we going to develop more in attack though? New halves, new forwards....same tactics of old. This might be it.

No forwards coming back across the grain. No half taking on the line. No getting Idris one on one with his opposite. No offload to a player flying through in supporr.

Defensively we are sound. I can handle missing a few more tackles for getting more attack into our game.
 

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,534
I wonder where they see Will Smith in all this. There are obviously plenty of options ahead of him for first grade but on the evidence of last night he's clearly got a bit to offer. In a few weeks when we get Humble, Jennings and Moss back how do we fit these guys into NSW Cup?
Moss, Nabuli, Jennings, Yeo, Naiqama, Capewell, John, RCG, Kingston, Anderson, Robinson, VTK, Simpkins, Smith, Cherrington, prop who comes down from first grade, Foster

Essentially we won't have space for Humble, Wes, Clarke, W. Smith and DWZ and Moseley may have to go back to 20s (not sure if Moseley is still eligible).

Bloody impressive depth and having won their last 4 against probably the next best teams in the comp, when we get to full strength that team is definitely goibg to throw up some options for first grade.
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
14,426
Because he's played better this year.

John's done nothing this year in first grade to justify selection over him. His kicking game has been sub-par and just because he takes the line on twice does not justify him getting a position in bloody first grade.

That enough?

No, that barely makes sense. Takes the line on twice? Nothing is what all Wallace's allegedly awesome structure provided in 80 minutes Friday night. Completely ineffectual. Our backline play hasn't looked better than when on the right when John is in the team, he actually brings Moylan into play and has results to show for it.

WTF has Wallace done exactly? Are we really choosing our half for his defence and kicking when we have Soward?
 
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