Rumoured and Confirmed Signings

[PinkPanther]

I'm unsure. If it means that we can't debut some players at the end of the year, then no. I wouldn't be totally against it, but our halves are going fine right now. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Abacus]

I'm assuming the dragons would carry most of his cap burden.

Also consider he's already been paid for half the year.

So wouldn't that mean we'd only be taking on a percentage of half his contract under the cap?

Whatever Panthers pay to Soward goes in the Panthers cap. If Soward's total for the rest of 2013 is not in the highest 25 at the club, & he plays NRL for Panthers, then he's included in the 2nd tier cap. Depending on how much of the 2nd tier cap the club has used already, if Soward is included there may not be much left for other NRL debuts.

 

[franklin2323]

We might not need to pay him much. Say the Dragons say here's what's owed.

He then becomes a free agent. Do we want him sitting around til he's ours on Nov 1? I would rather him come and stay fit.

We are way under the salary cap so we can juggle things to not affect the 2nd tier cap.

 

[The OX]

I'm unsure. If it means that we can't debut some players at the end of the year, then no. I wouldn't be totally against it, but our halves are going fine right now. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

We will find out Saturday whow much Walsh is willing to put in.

I have a few concerns he started playing like a trooper when he was in contract negotiations with St Helens. Now he has signed he may become a dead weight again.

 

[umina panther]

Guys don't forget Walsh did his best to lose the Melbourne game. He panicked in the second half and came up with some ridiculous 5th tackle options. Had Melbourne put us away like they do 99/100 times then we wouldn't be on this little run and dont get ahead of yourselves because out of our 5 wins 3 of those teams are woeful Parra, Dragons and a Matt Elliot coached rabble.

Also lets not forget his nonsense field goal attempts v the dragons

 

[herbert henry1908]

Whatever Panthers pay to Soward goes in the Panthers cap. If Soward's total for the rest of 2013 is not in the highest 25 at the club, & he plays NRL for Panthers, then he's included in the 2nd tier cap. Depending on how much of the 2nd tier cap the club has used already, if Soward is included there may not be much left for other NRL debuts.

Yeah I understand that.

My point was he's already received half his salary this year.

So at most we would have to pay 50% of his salary.

Likely less if the dragons want him gone.


Are you sure your description of top 25 is right ?

 

[Luke Bowden]

May as well get him on board as early as possible!! Id also like to give him the opportunity to make price look stupid!

 

[maple_69]

My opinion would be that we have an opportunity to work on our spine half a year early. We know Walsh wont be here and we know Soward will be 6 next year. If we can get our spine in order for round 1 next year rather than round 10, we're probably going to have a better season than what we would if we gave 2/3 juniors a few games this year. As much as Cartwright and a few other guys look really promising I dont think theres anyone else who is bashing the door down. Id say VTK, Cherrington are the only guys we need to get into first grade for some games at some time this season.

 

[betcats]

Getting Soward now couldn't possibly be a bad thing. I wouldn't automaticly chuck him straight into first grade, but an injury now to John or Walsh & we are looking very skinny in the halves.

Why go out of our way to get him early when he is playing like shit?? Let him keep playing shit at dragons and hope a fresh start for season 2014 will sort him out.

And to say it cant be a bad thing is stupid, it could be very disruptive to our season.

 

[betcats]

The problem is though if they cut him free. 6 months of sitting on the lounge eating Maccas and drinking beer will get him right to go wont it?

Better him either training a few sessions a week worse case he is fit to go. If it goes well play him though as a half it will be hard to come straight in and go well

Yeah fair enough but I doubt they will flat out cut him, can they even do that if he doesnt breech his contract??* We should tell the dragons we will not be picking up his contract this season,l.

 

[Abacus]

Yeah I understand that.

My point was he's already received half his salary this year.

So at most we would have to pay 50% of his salary.

Likely less if the dragons want him gone.


Are you sure your description of top 25 is right ?

Yeah, so if he's on $300k at the dragons and we have to pay $150k for the rest of the year, that goes into the Panthers cap. If $150k means he's in the 25 highest paid players for 2013 he goes in the "main" cap & whoever was player 25 moves to #26 and the 2nd tier (assuming he's played NRL in 2013). If this player hasn't played NRL, & doesn't for the rest of the season, then the money isn't included I any cap - unless he's 20 or younger.

If Soward's $150k means he's not in Top 25 paid players, then when he plays NRL in 2013 his payments are included in 2nd tier cap.

Either way, I think Gus's approach of denying interest for 2013 is the best way to minimise Panthers' payment to Soward if he does get here early.

 

[franklin2323]

can they even do that if he doesnt breech his contract??* We should tell the dragons we will not be picking up his contract this season,l.

As long as he gets his money they can pay him & not play him that is fine. Whether we get him or not he needs to stay in some type of NRL condition. Confidence can come once he's here. You don't want to spend the pre season getting him up to speed.

 

[Karnivayne]

Yeah, so if he's on $300k at the dragons and we have to pay $150k for the rest of the year, that goes into the Panthers cap. If $150k means he's in the 25 highest paid players for 2013 he goes in the "main" cap & whoever was player 25 moves to #26 and the 2nd tier (assuming he's played NRL in 2013). If this player hasn't played NRL, & doesn't for the rest of the season, then the money isn't included I any cap - unless he's 20 or younger.

If Soward's $150k means he's not in Top 25 paid players, then when he plays NRL in 2013 his payments are included in 2nd tier cap.

Either way, I think Gus's approach of denying interest for 2013 is the best way to minimise Panthers' payment to Soward if he does get here early.

Panthers would pay probably half of what was remaining on his contract so they would pick up Soward for 75k for half a season. Theres no way they would pay 100% of what was left if they flat out didnt want him there.

 

[franklin2323]

Either way, I think Gus's approach of denying interest for 2013 is the best way to minimise Panthers' payment to Soward if he does get here early.

Partly right. Dragons need to work out with Soward how much of his total contract to pay as they have the legal contract.

We can then sign him on whatever we work out as we would if he was a mid season RU or ESL player.

We are 500k under the NRL cap so it's not a concern if we can move say Humble back we can still bring new players in.

Like with Jennings we released him with 3 years left. The agreement was he was to be no worse off money wise.

So we are playing the difference of about $200k on our cap. What the Roosters pay him is totally different as he's treated as any other signing.

 

[TeamSatan]

Wow when did football become so confusing?

Ok we want Soward to play...

If he comes early then he plays for us..and walsh moves on.

Honestly who invented 2nd tier ..under 20 exemptions and all the other
jumble of garbage.

Would it be cynical of me to think that it was all made this way to give the dirty lawyer,
player manager and a crowd of paper pushing office meercats a way to get their snouts in the trough.

If he is here we play him...time to bird up.

 

[Abacus]

We are 500k under the NRL cap so it's not a concern if we can move say Humble back we can still bring new players in.

I agree with most of what you say. The issue with moving Humble back is that he has played NRL this season. Say he's on $100k, that amount then moves into the 2nd tier cap which I think now is around the $600k mark (I don't know for sure). Together with the total payments for other non-Top 25 players this year (Moylan, John, T Robinson, Docker?, others?) might see us hit the $600k & be prevented from playing blokes later in the season like Cartwright, VTK, Cherrington, Moss or anyone else that has not already played NRL at the time we hit the $600k. We'd really need to move someone back from the Top 25 that hasn't played, & won't play, FG this year.

Btw, the club can't nominate which player to move out of Top 25 - it's dependent on payment amounts so if Humble is not player 25, he won't go to 2nd tier.

Not sure whether we can access the remaining $500k in our Top 25 cap to blood new players other than by upgrading players 2013 contracts (i.e. maybe when Moylan extended it included an increased 2013 payment moving him to Top 25 & easing some pressure on 2nd tier) or front loading.

 

[Abacus]

Honestly who invented 2nd tier ..under 20 exemptions and all the other
jumble of garbage.

Would it be cynical of me to think that it was all made this way to give the dirty lawyer,
player manager and a crowd of paper pushing office meercats a way to get their snouts in the trough.

You're probably right although the PC version is that the 2nd tier was created to prevent clubs stockpiling talent i.e. players 26-30 all being on $100k at a club & the 2nd tier cap used to be around $350k so this club could only play 3 of these players in FG. The other 2 players, sick of not playing FG, look for another club for opportunity.

 

[Abacus]

Panthers would pay probably half of what was remaining on his contract so they would pick up Soward for 75k for half a season. Theres no way they would pay 100% of what was left if they flat out didnt want him there.

Agreed - but the final payout is determined between the Dragons & Soward's manager and if the reports of Soward feeling he's been treated poorly are correct, his manager may push for say $100k of the remaining $150k just to stick it up them.

Regardless of what Soward gets from the Dragons, whatever Penrith pays Soward goes in Penrith's cap.

 

[franklin2323]

the club can't nominate which player to move out of Top 25 - it's dependent on payment amounts so if Humble is not player 25, he won't go to 2nd tier.

We moved Weston on early so brought in a new player from our 2nd tier cap. NRL has to agree to any contract for any new players. If there is any chance we can't fit him in (Like Folau with Parra) it won't be approved.

We have 35 players we only need to give any player what the contract says. By Nov 1 we need to give the NRL our top 25. So if Humble's on minmum wage we only need to have $55k in 2nd tier to move him there.

James Roberts is in NYC cap. So like him Cartwright & co only cost us the match payments the base salary stays on the NYC cap.

 

[Abacus]

We moved Weston on early so brought in a new player from our 2nd tier cap. NRL has to agree to any contract for any new players. If there is any chance we can't fit him in (Like Folau with Parra) it won't be approved.

We have 35 players we only need to give any player what the contract says. By Nov 1 we need to give the NRL our top 25. So if Humble's on minmum wage we only need to have $55k in 2nd tier to move him there.

James Roberts is in NYC cap. So like him Cartwright & co only cost us the match payments the base salary stays on the NYC cap.

The issue with Folau's contract at Parra was that the NRL deemed it to be significantly undervalued and so wanted assurance from Parra that there were no other payments outside the cap. Soward to Panthers is similar to Inu & Perrett to the Dogs last year - both on significantly lower dollars for the first year. I don't believe the NRL would object to Soward signing with the Panthers for 2013.

Each club provides their provisional Top 25 to the NRL by 1 March. The club submits their final salary cap calculations (actual payments) at the end of the season. The NRL then audits the club's records to verify what the players have actually been paid. Didn't the minimum wage increase to $75k or so for 2013? Anyway it's the players total payments that determine whether they rank in the Top 25 salary cap or not. Players on minimum wage would usually also receive NRL match payments.

No, the NRL treats the salary cap for the NYC completely separately to the NRL salary cap so, in the case of Roberts & Cartwright, they will be in both the NYC Top 20 cap & the 2nd tier cap (for their entire payments) once they play NRL (assuming neither is in the clubs NRL Top 25 salary cap). The theory is that both competitions need to be assessed separately.