Rumours and Stuff

[Avenger]

I never gave Pou any shit. I never call him a f**kwit or a troll. I just mentioned comments he made previously which contradict with what he is currently saying. Maybe I out smarted him and he didn't appreciate that. Anyhows if he doesn't want to associate with half the people on here the f**k him. I'm done talking about the situation.

 

[JokerEel]

That’s great, but it takes time for it to take effect.



Once again, this is awesome but it will take time for it to make us a top-tier side. Another couple of years maybe.

To be honest, if we really want to be a top-tier team then we need to do what they do…cheat.
I am 100% convinced that those clubs find ways to pay their players (and probably other staff) outside the salary cap. I also believe that we don’t do it, probably because we are gun shy after being busted last time.

Until we spend the money to get the best people into the club - coaches, recruitment officers, administrators, etc, and also cheat the system, then it’s going to be very hard to get to the top.

100% it takes time.we are almost there (if covid didnt hit we may be a few more years ahead) , We have built a pretty decent first grade side we have Moses and Brown locked up for a few more seasons.

We are throwing a lot of coaching resources at our Juniors again and it should show something in 2-3 seasons.

I posted in the Juniors thread we have recruited well a few QLDers coming in.

On the cheating I dont think the Panthers are doing it to be honest they are losing players every season but have the structures in place to replace them.

 

[T.S Quint]

100% it takes time.we are almost there (if covid didnt hit we may be a few more years ahead) , We have built a pretty decent first grade side we have Moses and Brown locked up for a few more seasons.

We are throwing a lot of coaching resources at our Juniors again and it should show something in 2-3 seasons.

I posted in the Juniors thread we have recruited well a few QLDers coming in.

This is great. And hopefully in time it will help us become a top-tier club.

On the cheating I dont think the Panthers are doing it to be honest they are losing players every season but have the structures in place to replace them.

I do believe they do it, but maybe not to the extent of other clubs. But still, because they have the production line, they don’t have to cheat as much because of the structures they have in place. You can let a few players go and still be cheating. Why throw money at everyone if you don’t have to (also they would certainly raise suspicion if they didn’t lose a player or two every year after their success).

I have no way to prove any of it. Just a hunch.

 

[T.S Quint]

Yes now they do. Not mid table but usually don’t make the champions league which is the min over there. But they are far from a mid tier club.

To be honest, I don’t know much about soccer.
Which other clubs are above them these days? How much are they spending?

Usually EPL is one competition where you can actually see the divide between clubs because there is no salary cap. Like Formula 1. The teams that spend the most are usually on top. Occasionally you get someone else sneaking up there but it’s not usually for long.

 

[Eelementary]

You could however argue they do work as our record against this incredible Penrith side is better than anyone else’s.

Just a little bit of playing escobar’s advocat.

Is it really, though?

We have beaten them:

* last year, after Cleary was sent off;
* this year, at Round 26, when we had nothing to play for.

We've generally beaten them by 8 points, or less:


22 to 20 in 2022
16 to 10 in 2020
20 to 12 in 2019


Meanwhile, Penrith have beaten us:

20 to 2 in 2020
40 to 6 in 2021
27 to 8 in the 2022 QF
28 to 12 in the 2022 GF


We've jagged a decent wins, but the picture painted - at least to me - shows we caught Penrith on an off day.

When they are on, we are just like everyone else - unable to match them.

 

[Legal Eel]

Absolutely not, and it was a sign of enormous failure for them. We know this because they significantly underperformed their long term results. Us missing the finals once in five years is overperforming our long term results.

Just curious

Did you start following Parramatta BECAUSE you regard them as perennial losers who deserve no more than mediocrity - or was that just a happy accident for you?

 

[JokerEel]

This is great. And hopefully in time it will help us become a top-tier club.



I do believe they do it, but maybe not to the extent of other clubs. But still, because they have the production line, they don’t have to cheat as much because of the structures they have in place. You can let a few players go and still be cheating. Why throw money at everyone if you don’t have to (also they would certainly raise suspicion if they didn’t lose a player or two every year after their success).

I have no way to prove any of it. Just a hunch.

100% agree, Like how Nathan just so happens to purchase his dads house...

The Roosters though have to be doing something it cant just be a joke.

They have picked up Dom Young and that Panfers forward... and lost hmmmmmm Nathan Brown?

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Is it really, though?

We have beaten them:

* last year, after Cleary was sent off;
* this year, at Round 26, when we had nothing to play for.

We've generally beaten them by 8 points, or less:


22 to 20 in 2022
16 to 10 in 2020
20 to 12 in 2019


Meanwhile, Penrith have beaten us:

20 to 2 in 2020
40 to 6 in 2021
27 to 8 in the 2022 QF
28 to 12 in the 2022 GF


We've jagged a decent wins, but the picture painted - at least to me - shows we caught Penrith on an off day.

When they are on, we are just like everyone else - unable to match them.

https://www.nrl.com/draw/nrl-premiership/2021/round-25/eels-v-panthers/ if our wins don't count then this one doesn't count either. Look at the teams

 

[hineyrulz]

We aren’t victims, we are underdogs.

No, we know that you are the victim. Apparently, you poor Bugger:-(

 

[Eelementary]

https://www.nrl.com/draw/nrl-premiership/2021/round-25/eels-v-panthers/ if our wins don't count then this one doesn't count either. Look at the teams

I'm not saying they don't count.

I'm saying that, while we pulled off the odd 8-point win, here and there, they have obliterated us without raising a sweat for the most part.

 

[JokerEel]

https://www.nrl.com/draw/nrl-premiership/2021/round-25/eels-v-panthers/ if our wins don't count then this one doesn't count either. Look at the teams

Bam what a team!! Will Smith as Captain

I also forgot Chrichton started on the wing at the Panfers..

 

[hineyrulz]

I'm not saying they don't count.

I'm saying that, while we pulled off the odd 8-point win, here and there, they have obliterated us without raising a sweat for the most part.

In the games that have mattered we have been smashed.

 

[JokerEel]

I'm not saying they don't count.

I'm saying that, while we pulled off the odd 8-point win, here and there, they have obliterated us without raising a sweat for the most part.

Thats what is frustrating we know when we play our best we can beat everyone. Round 26 this year missing Moses we beat the full squadeded Panfers.

Its that we cant be consistent and also step up come finals as (we for some reason don't treat finals as any different to a normal season game)

 

[King-Gutho94]

I’d almost guarantee it that when they were negotiating with the club last contract they put it in a boxing clause.

Wouldn't surprise we don't mind bending over and accepting clauses in contracts.

Dylan Brown, Moses comes to mind already.

It feels like the tail is wagging the dog at this joint sometimes.

You can't tell me the well run clubs allow these Player option clauses in there players contracts.

 

[emjaycee]

My boss has never been able to control what I do during my holidays.
I have skiied, whitewater rafted, scuba-dived, 4WD'd and a few other not so safe activities.
Why do we think the club can control what the players do while on leave?

 

[King-Gutho94]

My boss has never been able to control what I do during my holidays.
I have skiied, whitewater rafted, scuba-dived, 4WD'd and a few other not so safe activities.
Why do we think the club can control what the players do while on leave?

‘Gutted’ Callum Mills makes heartfelt apology after Mad Monday injury

‘Gutted’ Swan sorry over Mad Monday injury, reveals ‘extremely hard’ coach meeting

www.foxsports.com.au

What about wrestling outside a pub

Like the dope Swans AFL player did and tore his rotator cuff on mad monday haha

 

[lucablight]

Well that’s the information we’ve got. Our finishing position is what we can see, not all the other stuff.

Our geographic position has meant nothing for a long time. Could we take advantage of it better? Maybe. I’m hoping the club is doing something about it. I don’t know though.

I haven’t seen any evidence to suggest that memberships mean much in terms of being a successful club. I’m sure it does t hurt, but how does it help? The Roosters do fine with not many members.

I’m sure all it takes is putting more money into the club/team. Either on the books or off the books. Previously the club was not prepared to do the latter, and tries to minimise the former. We’ve seen that more money is now going into the juniors, so that’s a start.

If all the information you have is worthless then you don’t get to just shoe horn it in to support your argument. Ladder positions are not a slam dunk when it comes to the resources available at a clubs disposal. As I’ve already demonstrated if a club isn’t utilising them correctly (eg the Broncos) then they’re meaningless. If I was to use your method of using my conclusion to cherry pick facts to support it I could just as easily say Melbourne has the most supporters therefore the team having the most supporters is conducive to having on field success.

No, but if you look at how their club has performed over the last couple of decades you can see that the last half a decade has been an anomaly.

As for them not winning in 17 years, they did have chances in 2015 and 2023. They even had the lead late in each game. Some bad luck and poor decisions on the field and unfortunately for them they ended up losing.

So anything that doesn’t support your conclusion can be written off as an anomaly? The Broncos have been in the competition for 36 years. How is almost half of that time not resulting in premierships an “anomaly”? They have underachieved relative to the resources they have at their disposal.

No we made the grand final last year. If you can make a grand final to can surely win one with more luck.

Oh you already knew the answer

Right, so it’s rather disingenuous to say that we’ve lacked the resources to win a competition isn’t it?

No he’s explaining how he got to his conclusion.

if you start with your conclusion i.e looking at ladder finishes to justify what tier club you are then you are working backwards to support it.

Absolutely not, and it was a sign of enormous failure for them. We know this because they significantly underperformed their long term results. Us missing the finals once in five years is overperforming our long term results.

Long term results is a meaningless metric. If I wanted to cherry pick like that I could start my argument by using the 80s as my starting point and saying we’ve underperformed based on long term results because we don’t win four premierships a decade anymore. I don’t put any stock in our results in the early 2010s. There were a lot of factors that lead to that period of mediocrity and in no way should they be used as a baseline for our expected results.

 

[lucablight]

I'm not saying they don't count.

I'm saying that, while we pulled off the odd 8-point win, here and there, they have obliterated us without raising a sweat for the most part.

I disagree. Ever since they started their dynasty we have beaten them fair and square 16-10 in 2020, 22-20 in 2022 and 17-16 and 32-18 in 2023. I wouldn’t put too much stock in the final round match in 2021 where we rested all our players and our final regular season clash in 2022 where Cleary was sent off and we beat them comprehensively.
I think it’s pretty disrespectful to play down the victories of our side when we’ve beaten them fair and square more than any other team during their dynasty era. Don’t forget how close we came to them in the 2021 finals series where they had to cheat to slow the game down. I agree that we failed miserably against them in the 2022 finals games (especially the grand final) but if you look at our last 11 clashes since 2020 the head to head is 5-6 in their favour. That’s pretty competitive if you ask me.
They’re a champion side but they also had alot of luck in finals. They won the 2021 and 2023 grand finals by 2 points. If they’d lost those we’d be talking about them being perennial chokers instead of one of the all time great teams.

 

[Chipmunk]

My boss has never been able to control what I do during my holidays.
I have skiied, whitewater rafted, scuba-dived, 4WD'd and a few other not so safe activities.
Why do we think the club can control what the players do while on leave?

I believe their contracts indicate they can't play other sports doesn't it?

 

[King-Gutho94]

I disagree. Ever since they started their dynasty we have beaten them fair and square 16-10 in 2020, 22-20 in 2022 and 17-16 and 32-18 in 2023. I wouldn’t put too much stock in the final round match in 2021 where we rested all our players and our final regular season clash in 2022 where Cleary was sent off and we beat them comprehensively.
I think it’s pretty disrespectful to play down the victories of our side when we’ve beaten them fair and square more than any other team during their dynasty era. Don’t forget how close we came to them in the 2021 finals series where they had to cheat to slow the game down. I agree that we failed miserably against them in the 2022 finals games (especially the grand final) but if you look at our last 11 clashes since 2020 the head to head is 5-6 in their favour. That’s pretty competitive if you ask me.
They’re a champion side but they also had alot of luck in finals. They won the 2021 and 2023 grand finals by 2 points. If they’d lost those we’d be talking about them being perennial chokers instead of one of the all time great teams.

I would argue if we beat them in 2021 semi final as we should have.

We could have ended there dynasty before it started. And history might look very different.

Ivan Cleary was under so much pressure leading into that final - the media were into him about how no coach had coached so many games before winning a premiership in the history of the game.

He got school by Wayne Bennett the previous week and after 2 complete years of dominance to back door in straight sets in the semi finals after losing a combined 4 games in 2 seasons would have been a disaster.

And a lot of soul searching perhaps self doubt would have crept in as well that they couldn't handle the pressure of September.