Sack Adam O'Brien

[Mr Angry]

That was not O’Brien last night. Young should be dropped for Marzhew. It was a match turning effort by him for all the wrong reasons. You cannot allow an effort like that to have no consequences.

Yet watch him get picked.

Who picks again?

 

[Spot On]

I want him gone as much as the next guy on here but who we gonna replace him with? Also as much as it sux, Brodie Jones is probably the guy that will take Fitzy's place. Don't know what's worse.

Giving these blokes another contract when they aren’t NRL standard is worse.

But we keep doing it. And do it well.

We excel at it.

Yay!

 

[aqua_duck]

Giving these blokes another contract when they aren’t NRL standard is worse.

But we keep doing it. And do it well.

We excel at it.

Yay!

Exactly, I mean when you consistency fail to build sufficient depth whilst happily letting go of quality players like Jacob Kiraz it really is mind boggling

 

[PhilGould]

Can't stress enough how average Kiraz looked in NSW Cup during his 1 season with us. Brayden Musgrove being picked ahead of him was actually the right call on form, and I never rated Musgrove.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Bear in mind also that he ended up with us in the first place because the Dogs didn’t want him, and when he went back there it was on a second tier NSW Cup contract.

You literally would have needed a crystal ball to see his current form coming.

 

[aqua_duck]

Can't stress enough how average Kiraz looked in NSW Cup during his 1 season with us. Brayden Musgrove being picked ahead of him was actually the right call on form, and I never rated Musgrove.

From the games I saw he was pretty good, especially for a teenager especially defensively. I don’t disagree with Musgrove being picked ahead of him at that time but as it pertains to letting go a young guy with prototypical physical attributes who played up 2 years that’s where I think the decision that he wasn’t good enough was made in haste.

Bear in mind also that he ended up with us in the first place because the Dogs didn’t want him, and when he went back there it was on a second tier NSW Cup contract.

You literally would have needed a crystal ball to see his current form coming.

He played mats for the dogs and SG Ball for the dragons then got offered a 3 year deal as a 17 year old by the cowboys after being scouted by Zammit, also played for Lebanon as a 17 year old. We let him go and he was literally killing it in 1st grade 6 months later, surely a coaches crystal should be able to see 6 months ahead

 

[Spot On]

Concerning the coaching staff seem to see (or fail to see) the ability (or lack of) with a lot of players.

 

[HarVeeGee]

From the games I saw he was pretty good, especially for a teenager especially defensively. I don’t disagree with Musgrove being picked ahead of him at that time but as it pertains to letting go a young guy with prototypical physical attributes who played up 2 years that’s where I think the decision that he wasn’t good enough was made in haste.



He played mats for the dogs and SG Ball for the dragons then got offered a 3 year deal as a 17 year old by the cowboys after being scouted by Zammit, also played for Lebanon as a 17 year old. We let him go and he was literally killing it in 1st grade 6 months later, surely a coaches crystal should be able to see 6 months ahead

Ah yeah I missed that he was at North Queensland in between.

At the end of the day though he wasn’t playing well for us in NSW Cup. I specifically remember seeing some people who go to watch Cup live regularly basically saying “why have we wasted a development spot on this spud?” It really would have been hard to find anyone who’d tell you he deserved an opportunity over the other backs we had at the club at the time. Good on him for figuring things out.

The lad himself is from Bankstown, his family is all there. Some players thrive in an environment when they’re on their own and have nothing to focus on but footy, some thrive on being “at home”, surrounded by their support network and all that. It’s possible he’s the latter type. He clearly loves being a Bulldog so he may have been hanging out to sign for them ASAP even if he was successful with us.

If we want our own version of Kiraz, a strong tackle busting runner who gets through a lot of yardage work, I’m a bit of a Dylan Lucas winger truther. I don’t really like that we’re trying to turn him into some sort of centre/back row utility.

 

[aqua_duck]

Ah yeah I missed that he was at North Queensland in between.

At the end of the day though he wasn’t playing well for us in NSW Cup. I specifically remember seeing some people who go to watch Cup live regularly basically saying “why have we wasted a development spot on this spud?” It really would have been hard to find anyone who’d tell you he deserved an opportunity over the other backs we had at the club at the time. Good on him for figuring things out.

The lad himself is from Bankstown, his family is all there. Some players thrive in an environment when they’re on their own and have nothing to focus on but footy, some thrive on being “at home”, surrounded by their support network and all that. It’s possible he’s the latter type. He clearly loves being a Bulldog so he may have been hanging out to sign for them ASAP even if he was successful with us.

If we want our own version of Kiraz, a strong tackle busting runner who gets through a lot of yardage work, I’m a bit of a Dylan Lucas winger truther. I don’t really like that we’re trying to turn him into some sort of centre/back row utility.

As mentioned he played a full year of NSW cup at 19 and though he didn’t dominate I believe from what I saw of him more than held his own. At the end of the day it’s not really about replacing Kiraz as such but more a point of our master coach and his inability to recognise and develop talent whilst at the same time continually persisting with players who have marginal natural talent.

 

[Yosh]

Just asking but werr Brodie Jones and Crossland stars when they were coming up through the juniors? How come we kept them over someone like Kiraz? Purely based on position?

 

[macavity]

Just asking but werr Brodie Jones and Crossland stars when they were coming up through the juniors? How come we kept them over someone like Kiraz? Purely based on position?

Crossland was.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Exactly, I mean when you consistency fail to build sufficient depth whilst happily letting go of quality players like Jacob Kiraz it really is mind boggling

This is a bit if a 20/20 hindsight call mate. Noone was complaining at the time he was let go cause he didn't look like kicking on

I agree our depth sucks but I can't blame the club for moving him on in particular

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Just asking but werr Brodie Jones and Crossland stars when they were coming up through the juniors? How come we kept them over someone like Kiraz? Purely based on position?

Can't speak to Crossland but Jones was a grafter, always the hardest worker in every team coming through and recruiters love that almost as much as outright talent.

Jones was always very mobile too with a bigger motor than most

 

[macavity]

Can't speak to Crossland but Jones was a grafter, always the hardest worker in every team coming through and recruiters love that almost as much as outright talent.

Jones was always very mobile too with a bigger motor than most

crossland was NSW halfback in junior reps. Everything pointed towards solid first grader at worst.

 

[Old School]

I`ve been exposed to a lot of junior rep selection decisions in the not too distant past & can see why so many come back to bite us. Biggest ticket items are usually size & athleticism as the argument is that everything else can be taught. Unfortunately this is usually a load of B.S in most cases, football I.Q is mostly instinct & doesn`t come from a blackboard , mongrel is something you are born with as is will to win & the ability to keep coming no matter how buggered you are or how many times you are knocked down (HEART). It doesn`t help when the majority of coaches base all they do on stats alone & not effectively coach & mentor players (one on one) in what they really need to know to be a well rounded player, that`s because they don`t really know themselves. Think of our squad recently & who would you want in the trenches with you when the chips are down, Buderus is the only one that comes to mind & that`s a long while ago. It seems watching the current mob it`s easy to just give up as it`s all on again next week.

 

[macavity]

I`ve been exposed to a lot of junior rep selection decisions in the not too distant past & can see why so many come back to bite us. Biggest ticket items are usually size & athleticism as the argument is that everything else can be taught. Unfortunately this is usually a load of B.S in most cases, football I.Q is mostly instinct & doesn`t come from a blackboard , mongrel is something you are born with as is will to win & the ability to keep coming no matter how buggered you are or how many times you are knocked down (HEART). It doesn`t help when the majority of coaches base all they do on stats alone & not effectively coach & mentor players (one on one) in what they really need to know to be a well rounded player, that`s because they don`t really know themselves. Think of our squad recently & who would you want in the trenches with you when the chips are down, Buderus is the only one that comes to mind & that`s a long while ago. It seems watching the current mob it`s easy to just give up as it`s all on again next week.

I reckon an argument can be mounted for the opposite. With the exception of the safs we haven’t produced
big athletic kids in forever.

We do well in lower grades because we have a heap of Sione Matautia, Brodie Jones, Tom Cant types - mature, hard working, big heart.

But not big or athletic enough to dominate in firsts. Particularly in the forwards.

And the ones we do develop we don’t stick with - Tapine, Young, even Saulo.

 

[aqua_duck]

This is a bit if a 20/20 hindsight call mate. Noone was complaining at the time he was let go cause he didn't look like kicking on

I agree our depth sucks but I can't blame the club for moving him on in particular

As mentioned Kiraz was a 19 year old who played 2 years up in NSW cup, he also has prototypical size for the position, to write him off that soon was at the time and as has turned out to be incorrect, it also speaks to how AOB seems build a squad or more so fail to build a squad. Look at our top 30 this year, there was never enough middle depth even before the injuries. Good teams don’t continually keep the likes of Crossland, Fitzy, Jones, etc around out of sympathy

 

[aqua_duck]

I reckon an argument can be mounted for the opposite. With the exception of the safs we haven’t produced
big athletic kids in forever.

We do well in lower grades because we have a heap of Sione Matautia, Brodie Jones, Tom Cant types - mature, hard working, big heart.

But not big or athletic enough to dominate in firsts. Particularly in the forwards.

And the ones we do develop we don’t stick with - Tapine, Young, even Saulo.

Yep 100%, I mean we literally sent Latrell Mitchell packing as a 15 year old, Latrell literally made NSW under 16s 5 months after we told him he wasn’t good enough for our Mats team. Also don’t forget the Safs didn’t come into our system until under 20s.
From what Ive heard the issue with a lot of junior coaches is their concern is winning, it’s easier to win at that level if you have a group of kids who have been playing the game since under 10s, are coachable and disciplined as opposed to raw kids who need alot of work

 

[Burwood]

Yep 100%, I mean we literally sent Latrell Mitchell packing as a 15 year old, Latrell literally made NSW under 16s 5 months after we told him he wasn’t good enough for our Mats team. Also don’t forget the Safs didn’t come into our system until under 20s.
From what Ive heard the issue with a lot of junior coaches is their concern is winning, it’s easier to win at that level if you have a group of kids who have been playing the game since under 10s, are coachable and disciplined as opposed to raw kids who need alot of work

Was it Mark O’Meley who quit last year because he saw a perceived focus on developing players for NRL level, not necessarily winning him games in NSW Cup?

 

[macavity]

Was it Mark O’Meley who quit last year because he saw a perceived focus on developing players for NRL level, not necessarily winning him games in NSW Cup?

Quite possibly.

The thing is, we need to start that focus far earlier - and we never have. Has always been win now instead of develop. Interesting to see if that has changed. Hopefully we crack the code to do both like Penrith has.