Sack Adam O'Brien

[aqua_duck]

Quite possibly.

The thing is, we need to start that focus far earlier - and we never have. Has always been win now instead of develop. Interesting to see if that has changed. Hopefully we crack the code to do both like Penrith has.

100%, success should be measured in how many first graders you develop not how many Harold Mats titles you win.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

As mentioned Kiraz was a 19 year old who played 2 years up in NSW cup, he also has prototypical size for the position, to write him off that soon was at the time and as has turned out to be incorrect, it also speaks to how AOB seems build a squad or more so fail to build a squad. Look at our top 30 this year, there was never enough middle depth even before the injuries. Good teams don’t continually keep the likes of Crossland, Fitzy, Jones, etc around out of sympathy

Crossland i dont get youre 100% right there

Fitz has had his downs but i feel he is a solid enough 1st grader with good up side when he puts it all together. In a better system than ours i think he has a few rep jerseys to his name, which i believe is the clubs biggest issue ie not being able to polish the rough out of the diamonds

Jones is a middle imo. I think he can be a solid depth player there. God knows why he is still considered an option on the edge

 

[macavity]

Jones is exactly what we produce in spades. Tweeness. Not big enough to play middle, not athletic enough to play edge.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Jones is exactly what we produce in spades. Tweeness. Not big enough to play middle, not athletic enough to play edge.

Jones is the same size as Adam Elliot and J'maine Hopgood

And if Reuben Cotter can play frontrow at sub 100kgs then Jones can

This being too small for the middle is a myth

 

[Yosh]

Jones is the same size as Adam Elliot and J'maine Hopgood

And if Reuben Cotter can play frontrow at sub 100kgs then Jones can

This being too small for the middle is a myth

So Jones is terrible not because he is small but because he is just crap?

 

[aqua_duck]

Crossland i dont get youre 100% right there

Fitz has had his downs but i feel he is a solid enough 1st grader with good up side when he puts it all together. In a better system than ours i think he has a few rep jerseys to his name, which i believe is the clubs biggest issue ie not being able to polish the rough out of the diamonds

Jones is a middle imo. I think he can be a solid depth player there. God knows why he is still considered an option on the edge

Fitz is the most one dimensional player I’ve possibly ever seen, he runs a good crash line but is literally not capable of anything else, the issue for me is not that he keeps getting re-signed but rather that they have not been able to add any strings to his game and that he is so high up the depth chart despite being so limited.
I agree Jones is potentially a solid depth option as a middle but surely there are better options for a top 30 spot than someone who’s 24-25 years old and his ceiling is a depth option for bad team?

 

[Knight Tales]

So Jones is terrible not because he is small but because he is just crap?

Cotter is a exception. He is incredibly fast and agile and when he hits the ball up it is usually his leg speed which gets him over the advantage line.

 

[aqua_duck]

Cotter is an exception. He is incredibly fast and agile and when he hits the ball up it is usually his leg speed which gets him over the advantage line.

You can also get away with playing Cotter at prop when you have Taumalolo at 13

 

[macavity]

Jones is the same size as Adam Elliot and J'maine Hopgood

And if Reuben Cotter can play frontrow at sub 100kgs then Jones can

This being too small for the middle is a myth

Not athletic enough.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

End of the day, its the club thats to blame for those players being limited imo, not the players lack of athleticism or talent.

Well, except maybe for Crossland

 

[aqua_duck]

EXCLUSIVE: Phil Gould reveals how Knights let unlikely Dally M leader go to the Dogs on 'genius' $40k deal!
Wide World of Sports

Bulldogs supremo Phil Gould has revealed how the club came to sign shock Dally M leader Jacob Kiraz on a paltry $40,000 deal, declaring that the move has made him "look a genius".

Kiraz has enjoyed an outstanding start to the season, playing a starring role for the 2-1 Bulldogs through the first three rounds. He sits atop the Dally M leaderboard with 11 points, two ahead of Payne Haas and Tino Fa'asuamaleaui.

The 21-year-old returned to the club that knocked him back twice as a junior on a $1000-per-year train-and-trial deal, before making his debut last season and has not looked back since.

Gould described Kiraz as a "great kid", adding that he was "wholehearted" and revealed his stunned reaction to seeing the powerful winger in action for the first time on the training track.

"I'd never seen him play, so I did some homework on him," he told Wide World of Sports' Six Tackles With Gus podcast.

"He came down to us on $40,000.

"I remember walking into training around Christmas time ... I'm sitting there in the heat and this big gangly thing just goes loping past and I said, 'Who the hell is that?', and they said, 'That's that boy from Newcastle, Kiraz'. I said, 'That's him?' He said, 'Yeah'. I said, 'Wow, he's going to make me look a genius'.

"Right from the time he started to play, he was a ball-runner and you couldn't contain him. He had big long gangly features and he was a strong runner.

"We ran into COVID and injury problems early last year, we were playing the Broncos and we had to get a couple of players qualified and he and Billy Tsikrikas made their debut. They weren't anywhere near the top 30 and (Kiraz) was the best player on the field.

"I immediately renewed his contract and signed him up and I'm going to have to renew it and sign him up again."

Gould said Kiraz had ended up back at Belmore after his manager approached him following stints at the Cowboys and Knights that were ruined by COVID-19.

"He'd actually signed a contract to go to the Cowboys when he was younger and got identified by a Cowboy talent scout," he said.

"He went up there but COVID hit and there was no lower grade or development football, so he came back home. That talent scout then moved from the Cowboys to the Newcastle Knights ... so he went to the Newcastle Knights. His deal was staggered from an incentive deal, to a contract, to maybe a lower-tier top 30, but again COVID hit the following year.

"So he was training but not playing and he'd gone two years without football and because of his contract he'd suddenly found his way into the top 30.

"Well the first grade coach is looking for forwards and he's got this kid Kiraz he hasn't seen play for two years, he's never seen him play. The talent scout said, 'Oh I think he's a good player', but the coach just said, 'Oh well, we need forwards, if we need to move someone, move him'."

The Knights' loss has wound up being Gould and the Bulldogs' major gain, with Kiraz scoring two tries in three appearances so far to go along with his six tries last season.

The Bulldogs will hope Kiraz's match-winning exploits travel across the Tasman when the team faces the red-hot Warriors in New Zealand in round four.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Yeah Id be taking what Gould says "happened" within a club he has no part of with a massive grain of salt

 

[Burwood]

I'm comfortable with letting Kiraz go- I don't think we'll be looking back in years time regretting the decision.

 

[aqua_duck]

I’m just curious who were these awesome forwards we brought in after letting him walk

 

[slotmachine]

Getting so bent out of shape about letting Kiraz walk is weird.
The fact he was only offered 40k at the Dogs shows they (and the rest of the NRL) didn't think much of him either. They just got lucky.
This isn't like telling Latrell he had a bad attitude and to hit the road.

 

[Yosh]

I think Kiraz is one example of a systematic problem here at the Knights. Just another player in a long line we let go that went on to become a solid/good player elsewhere. So so many.

Hopefully Parr is here to make sure that doesn't happen anymore. AOB is more concerned with his image and job he would rather play it safe and play Mann or Fitzy instead of giving a talented youngster or unknown with a higher ceiling a run.

 

[Jono078]

This is also my problem with AOB’s “earn your jersey” policy for anyone not in his favorite 17.

We could have had a winger play 3 crap games in a row and AOB sticks solid. But what if he said ok not good enough the next man gets a chance now. That could have been Kiraz finally getting to grade and then taking his opportunity.

I like aqua duck remember watching a few reserve games in 2021 and thinking Kiraz looked fairly solid for a young bloke.

Not trying to say I’m a genius, far from that when it comes to talent scouting. My issue is with the coach or club philosophy on player selection. Gives some of these reserves real hope of being a selection chance and they might actually aim up.

 

[Knight Tales]

O’Brien’s main hope is continuing to select kids like Rivet and Lucas and let them develop while injury forces his hand. He needs to show he can help bring these kids up to speed even if it is earlier in the timeline.
Now there are many schools of thought on When a kid is ready but I thought Rivet is physically not yet there, but his footy intelligence is encouraging. He and Lucas look genuinely unfazed by FG. Almost like they expect to be there eventually. It’s an attitude we have been sorely missing. It is not arrogance. It is self assuredness. We need more a matter of when and less a matter of if.

 

[aqua_duck]

Getting so bent out of shape about letting Kiraz walk is weird.
The fact he was only offered 40k at the Dogs shows they (and the rest of the NRL) didn't think much of him either. They just got lucky.
This isn't like telling Latrell he had a bad attitude and to hit the road.

this isn't specifically about Kiraz but the process or lack of any process behind AOB, Kiraz was identified by one of the best talent scouts in the game in Zammit and Zammit clearly had a high opinion of him yet AOB was happy to scrap him and replace him with no one.
I just don't understand AOB 's logic of letting talented kids go and not replacing them with anyone and at the same time keep re-signing guys who are proven failures.

 

[Alex28]

AOB as a coach with David Klemmer as a forward leader versus AOB as a coach without DVid Klemmer as a forward leader.

Discuss.