Sack Brown

[Yosh]

No, We need to do what Canberra has done and go International. Brown was a coach at 2 Super League clubs, so he must have contacts.

I still say that 100 players are working at McDonalds in the USA who have more talent, ability etc than any player who has ever pulled on a rugby league boot. Hell the Hayne Plane was the best we had and to be honest, he didn't even rate in the top 1000 athletes in the USA. That's not to mention Union players from the UK, SA Etc,

It's like comparing oranges and apples. Those NFL lads would come and most likely be duds in Rugby because they just aren't trained to be complete players. They are freaks who operate like robots.

Also the US has 300 million people. We have 22. Just by numbers alone they should have 12 times whatever person than us.

 

[aqua_duck]

Maybe the Souths pack that nearly lost on the weekend......but Souths preferred and usual starting pack that tramples the opposition - including the 3 Burgess brothers has 923 games experience.- not including any first grade experience in England. Sam Burgess and Sutton alone have almost the same experience as our entire pack. - 502

Our usual pack of Dsaf , Klemmer, Levi, Fitz, Barny and Glasby = 537 ( edit 542)

The measure isnt entirely on NRL games - its also on big game experience= pressure. Have a look at their pack and the top teams for that matter. They all have multiple premiership caps, international games ( for top tier teams) to go along with NRL experience and maturity.- in key areas we lack.

As Ponga and Dsaf mature and gain more experience in SOO and the squad as a whole gain experience in pressure games and the grind of the NRL season playing and with expectation ( high standards ) we will see our premiership window open.....exciting times ahead. This season is just a bump in the road to our next Premiership.

You're entire argument was that our team are choking now because they're not used to a long season, the Burgess brothers haven't played for most of this period yet Souths haven't fallen off the cliff yet, and also how do you explain all the other teams ahead of us like Manly, Canberra and Penrith?
All I see is that you brought up one point which was debunked then you've tried to change the criteria to somehow fit in with your debunked point. Firstly you said we had a lot of guys in their 2nd or 3rd seasons which was proven wrong, then you somehow made a point that a lot of our first grade experience was invalid because SKD is a winger then you tried to say our spine wasn't experienced enough which was again debunked. I think at some point you need to just stop making excuses for the team, we've got 3 origin level middle forwards, 2 of whom have played in grand finals, a premiership winning halfback who's played in many high pressure games, origin fullback, hooker who's played for NZ. If you look at our side most of the players have played finals football before.

 

[adamkungl]

Unfortunately the coaching market is pretty bare at the moment. The two guys who’s names I keep hearing as up and comers are Holbrook and O’Brian. Other than them there’s a whole bunch of washed up coaches out there who failed to perform at NRL level so I’d rather not go after anyone like that because we’d either be getting more of the same or worse.

Of the guys currently coaching at other NRL clubs the following would be upgrades on Brown.
- Bellamy
- Robinson
- Siebold
- McGuire
- Cleary

Aside from the above I can’t see any of the other current nrl coaches getting more out of the playing group than Brown at the moment so I’d rather stick with him unless we somehow managed to land one of those guys (very unlikely) or if we signed a rookie coach with some serious pedigree.

Under-acknowledged historical facts about coaching recruitment:

1) The vast majority of coaches who win premierships do so at their first club.
2) The vast majority of premierships are won by coaches at their first club.
3) "Experienced" coaches who have never won a premiership almost never win a premiership at their 2nd or 3rd clubs

NRL Premiership winning coaches since 1998
T Robinson - 1st year at 1st club in NRL
C Bellamy - 5th year*, 1st club
S Flannagan - 7th year, 1st club
P Green - 2nd year, 1st club
M Maguire - 2nd year, 1st club
D Hasler - 5th year, 1st club
W Bennett - 5th year at 1st club, 2nd year at 2nd club
T Sheens - 0 at 1st club, 2nd year at 2nd club, 3rd year at 4th club
S Folkes - 7th year, 1st club
J Lang - 0 at 1st club, 2nd year at 2nd club
R Stuart - 1st year, 1st club
M Hagan - 1st year, 1st club
C Anderson - 6th year at 1st club, 2nd year at 2nd club

Of all NRL era premiership coaches, only Sheens and Lang have won their first premiership at a second club.
Only Wayne Bennett and Chris Anderson have won premierships at more than 1 club.

Of 21 premierships, 9 have been won by "new" coaches, ie. coaches at their first club, including 5 in their first or second year.
11 have been won by coaches who have previously won a premiership.
Only 1 NRL era premiership, Penrith 2003 coached by John Lang, has been won by a coach with a previous club and 0 premierships to their name.

Historically speaking,
Nathan Brown is unlikely to win a premiership.
Siebold, Cleary, are unlikely to win Newcastle a premiership.
Justin Holbrook, Jason Demetriou, Adam O'Brien are historically more likely to win Newcastle a premiership than any of the above rejects.

The rebuild has been done. There's a good squad there. If Brown can't get his team even to the finals after 4 years of total control, it's time to look elsewhere.
Rookie coaches coming into a good squad with a fresh outlook can be more successful than experienced failures.
Holbrook has St Helens winning 2 minor premierships in 2 years with a long way down to 2nd place. He could be the next Robinson/Bellamy/Hasler. It won't be Cleary or Brown.

 

[Silent Knight]

Under-acknowledged historical facts about coaching recruitment:

1) The vast majority of coaches who win premierships do so at their first club.
2) The vast majority of premierships are won by coaches at their first club.
3) "Experienced" coaches who have never won a premiership almost never win a premiership at their 2nd or 3rd clubs

NRL Premiership winning coaches since 1998
T Robinson - 1st year at 1st club in NRL
C Bellamy - 5th year*, 1st club
S Flannagan - 7th year, 1st club
P Green - 2nd year, 1st club
M Maguire - 2nd year, 1st club
D Hasler - 5th year, 1st club
W Bennett - 5th year at 1st club, 2nd year at 2nd club
T Sheens - 0 at 1st club, 2nd year at 2nd club, 3rd year at 4th club
S Folkes - 7th year, 1st club
M Lang - 0 at 1st club, 2nd year at 2nd club
R Stuart - 1st year, 1st club
M Hagan - 1st year, 1st club
C Anderson - 6th year at 1st club, 2nd year at 2nd club

Of all NRL era premiership coaches, only Sheens and Lang have won their first premiership at a second club.
Only Wayne Bennett and Chris Anderson have won premierships at more than 1 club.

Of 21 premierships, 9 have been won by "new" coaches, ie. coaches at their first club, including 5 in their first or second year.
11 have been won by coaches who have previously won a premiership.
Only 1 NRL era premiership, Penrith 2003 coached by Martin Lang, has been won by a coach with a previous club and 0 premierships to their name.

Historically speaking,
Nathan Brown is unlikely to win a premiership.
Siebold, Cleary, are unlikely to win Newcastle a premiership.
Justin Holbrook, Jason Demetriou, Adam O'Brien are historically more likely to win Newcastle a premiership than any of the above rejects.

The rebuild has been done. There's a good squad there. If Brown can't get his team even to the finals after 4 years of total control, it's time to look elsewhere.
Rookie coaches coming into a good squad with a fresh outlook can be more successful than experienced failures.
Holbrook has St Helens winning 2 minor premierships in 2 years with a long way down to 2nd place. He could be the next Robinson/Bellamy/Hasler. It won't be Cleary or Brown.

Very concise, the only correction being it wasn't Martin Lang who coached Penrith to a premiership, it was his father John Lang. But Martin played in that 2003 premiership winning team.

 

[adamkungl]

Very concise, the only correction being it wasn't Martin Lang who coached Penrith to a premiership, it was his father John Lang. But Martin played in that 2003 premiership winning team.

Derp. Woops
Nevertheless. Punt Brown, sign a quality rookie (Not Kevin Walters)
Of course this might backfire and you end up with a Mary McGregor...

 

[slotmachine]

Haven't done the analysis Adam, but I think you probably don't want your head coach being an ex-player of the club either.

If Brown can't get his team even to the finals after 4 years of total control, it's time to look elsewhere.

Not enough experience, too many injuries, Origin disruption, it's all on the players for not having a go.

 

[Knight Vision]

You're entire argument was that our team are choking now because they're not used to a long season, the Burgess brothers haven't played for most of this period yet Souths haven't fallen off the cliff yet, and also how do you explain all the other teams ahead of us like Manly, Canberra and Penrith?
All I see is that you brought up one point which was debunked then you've tried to change the criteria to somehow fit in with your debunked point. Firstly you said we had a lot of guys in their 2nd or 3rd seasons which was proven wrong, then you somehow made a point that a lot of our first grade experience was invalid because SKD is a winger then you tried to say our spine wasn't experienced enough which was again debunked. I think at some point you need to just stop making excuses for the team, we've got 3 origin level middle forwards, 2 of whom have played in grand finals, a premiership winning halfback who's played in many high pressure games, origin fullback, hooker who's played for NZ. If you look at our side most of the players have played finals football before.

fair points but statistically we are a bit short of teams that win premierships - on average. A slightly younger squad still lacking in areas.

Who knows maybe they go on a run and the angst about the squad has been for nothing. I'm sure the team is on the improve over the next couple of years.

 

[mongoose]

Very concise, the only correction being it wasn't Martin Lang who coached Penrith to a premiership, it was his father John Lang. But Martin played in that 2003 premiership winning team.

Also the Broncos were Bennets 2nd club, not first. He coached at the Raiders for 1 season in 1987. Took them to the gf ofcourse.

 

[aqua_duck]

fair points but statistically we are a bit short of teams that win premierships - on average. A slightly younger squad still lacking in areas.

Who knows maybe they go on a run and the angst about the squad has been for nothing. I'm sure the team is on the improve over the next couple of years.

You're probably right in terms of winning premierships but right now we're not even in the 8 which to me is inexcusable when you looks at the teams above us.

 

[aqua_duck]

It's like comparing oranges and apples. Those NFL lads would come and most likely be duds in Rugby because they just aren't trained to be complete players. They are freaks who operate like robots.

Also the US has 300 million people. We have 22. Just by numbers alone they should have 12 times whatever person than us.

Better scouting opportunity would be the 7s rugby circuit as well as the IRB under 20s World Cup, get them at 18-19, give them a year or 2 to learn the intricacies of the game and give them the advantage of a professional training environment. Some of the raw talent from the Pacific Islands is freaky and most of them have never had the benefit of proper nutrition or strength and conditioning so the potential for rapid improvement is high.
English super league has a lot of talent but you'll most likely be paying market value or more for those players.

 

[Jono078]

It's time for change. I commend Brown and what he's done for us over the past few years, but I think we all knew it would end like this and we'd need another coach to take us to the next level.

Bitterly disappointing season. We were on the verge of the top 4 midway through the season, to fall out of the 8 and have 5-game losing streaks, not once but twice in a season is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[perverse]

It's time for change. I commend Brown and what he's done for us over the past few years, but I think we all knew it would end like this and we'd need another coach to take us to the next level.

Bitterly disappointing season. We were on the verge of the top 4 midway through the season, to fall out of the 8 and have 5-game losing streaks, not once but twice in a season is absolutely ridiculous.

Yep, his position seems untenable at this point.

 

[aqua_duck]

It's time for change. I commend Brown and what he's done for us over the past few years, but I think we all knew it would end like this and we'd need another coach to take us to the next level.

Bitterly disappointing season. We were on the verge of the top 4 midway through the season, to fall out of the 8 and have 5-game losing streaks, not once but twice in a season is absolutely ridiculous.

Yep, as well as Brown has done recruiting his actual coaching has failed, we're 3/4 of the way into the season and our attack is absolutely one dimensional and reliant on individual brilliance rather than structure or set plays, defence has gone completely backwards. It's also a big indictment on Brown that we've lost every single game that we've been behind at halftime, to me it shows he can't inspire the side nor make in game tactical adjustments

 

[Burns]

I dont know who you get. But they can't sack him in the Off Season. Can't do it next year if we collapse in the first half of 2020. So when?

 

[ryana87]

Could he maybe be kept around as a recruitment advisor..... Or was all our good recruits thanks to Mooney?

 

[perverse]

I dont know who you get. But they can't sack him in the Off Season. Can't do it next year if we collapse in the first half of 2020. So when?

You either do it this week, or you just let us fart our way to a 13th finish and do it then.

 

[macavity]

You either do it this week, or you just let us fart our way to a 13th finish and do it then.

They won’t do it in season.

 

[perverse]

They won’t do it in season.

I don't think it changes our season much if we do it now anyway.

 

[slotmachine]

There will be a post-season review I'm sure.

 

[Silent Knight]

Yeah post-season review the day after our round 26 game I reckon.