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Scomo saving me

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,816
Death makes life real.

Or you believe in a deity and your maybe 100 years of life means nothing compared to enterity.

Such a strange concept.
 

carcharias

Immortal
Messages
43,120
I don’t get the NZ prime minister adoration.
Just because she is a nice person doesn’t make her any sort of political genius.

If NZ had any brains they would’ve had gun control after Port Arthur.
Suddenly she is a genius after some f**kwit goes ballistic with guns he got there.

Crime is through the roof.
The economy is f**ked.
The merkins can’t win a comp
 

Eion

First Grade
Messages
8,034
I don’t get the NZ prime minister adoration.
Just because she is a nice person doesn’t make her any sort of political genius.

If NZ had any brains they would’ve had gun control after Port Arthur.
Suddenly she is a genius after some f**kwit goes ballistic with guns he got there.

Crime is through the roof.
The economy is f**ked.
The merkins can’t win a comp
It’s an Australian comp. Scomos fault they haven’t won a comp.
 

Quicksilver

Bench
Messages
4,368
I don’t get the NZ prime minister adoration.
Just because she is a nice person doesn’t make her any sort of political genius.

If NZ had any brains they would’ve had gun control after Port Arthur.
Suddenly she is a genius after some f**kwit goes ballistic with guns he got there.

Crime is through the roof.
The economy is f**ked.
The merkins can’t win a comp

you should get behind her at this time of crisis.

she’s working really really hard.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
I don’t get the NZ prime minister adoration.
Just because she is a nice person doesn’t make her any sort of political genius.

If NZ had any brains they would’ve had gun control after Port Arthur.
Suddenly she is a genius after some f**kwit goes ballistic with guns he got there.

Crime is through the roof.
The economy is f**ked.
The merkins can’t win a comp

I think the "adoration" is from international commentators who admire her demeanour in a crisis, which seems to be pretty good, IMHO. In terms of her domestic issues, she is struggling in a pretty non functional coalition, as far as I can tell. Similar to if One Nation had won a half dozen or so seats off the Nationals and formed a coalition government with Labor.

No country tends to implement a policy like gun control based on international incidents. Christchurch was their Port Arthur, and in a fairly conservative country that loves their guns, with a conservative coalition partner, I think Adern should get some praise for her handling of gun control over that incident. Just like Howard did very well with his handling of gun control, leading a conservative government, after Port Arthur.

The NZ economy was fine until coronavirus. Not stellar, but fine
https://www.focus-economics.com/countries/new-zealand
This brief article from before the virus suggests one threat to their economy is our poor one dragging them down...

NZ crime is generally very low, especially compared to most of the world. It is similar to Australia. They have higher gun crime, strangely enough, since they only just introduced their gun laws, but generally their crime rates are a little lower for other crimes than here:
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/New-Zealand/Crime
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
The Chinese government has repeatedly shown all they care about is themselves, and they have let down their own people, and the world, in this crisis.

It is one thing to despise authoritarian governments though, but it takes work to keep other governments from becoming authoritarian. That is why in this thread I keep urging people to keep governments accountable, and not let partisan loyalties keep them from criticising "their" party when they lie, rort, introduce undemocratic laws, or hide from accountability.

This crisis has allowed the Hungarian Prime Minister to effectively have authoritarian control of what is ostensibly a democracy. But they didn't get there overnight, from coronavirus. This is a democracy that has eroded democratic freedoms over the last decade.

Hopefully international pressure will help Hungary return more to a democratic state once the coronavirus crisis is over, but they are a warning to all of us that democracies can turn into dictatorships, and it takes a watchful and critical eye from the populace to prevent this.

I agree and I stil depise these type of Governments,but remember country's like Hungary were once under an authoritarian government(communist), and sometimes people like to bring up the "good old days'(which is ridiculous).If you remember rightly the 1956 Hungarian revolution,and
the uprising against totalitarianism.Even South Korea at one stage had authoritarian rule, that did not last.

Taiwan was once under a authoritarian military Government, but is now a working democracy, whose younger population is extremely democratic and mostly anti Chinese type rule.

I think there is zero chance of Australia, New Zealand of becoming an authoritarian state.We have strong opposing political views and have done so for ages, as is evident here also. Governments are kept accountable, as they are in England and even the USA and Canada.
Trump lost out in Congress recently and who knows the 2020 results.

There is nothing wrong in criticising parties, all must be held accountable.My point in times of national crisis of the current magnitude, where ScoMo & CO have state govts (Labor & LIb) involved in the decision making process, nit picking or point scoring to look as if your active ,achieves little,
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Plenty is being hidden from the Australian public.

TLDR: The Australian governments aren't sharing the research and modelling behind their "expert advice". And they aren't telling us their strategy for dealing with the crisis, especially the long term goals and how we get out of this mess.



While I don't think the governments (federal and state) have done a terrible job, even if I disagree with what appears to be our strategy, the two areas that they can be criticised for are about transparency.

The first is about how they are making their decisions. They say they are following "expert medical advice". But they won't show us what this advice says. The PM was directly asked about the modelling they were following and refused to give a straight answer, falling back on the "expert advice" line. This is in stark contrast to NZ, for example, where they have published their modelling for all to see (with caveats about how there is a wide degree of uncertainty).

It is a little misleading for them to say they are relying on expert medical advice when they won't provide that advice. The AHPPC is not a neutral, medical research and response group. It is part of the government and looks at implementing government policy. The Group of Eight, who the government uses purely for medical advice, advised that we go in to immediate lock down. The AHPPC doesn't believe this is "proportionate", which is to say, cost effective, rather than that it is the best medical advice. Which implies the government has access to some modelling about the costs and benefits of their policy, but they are not sharing it.

The second area where they are not telling the Australian public all they could, is their overall strategy, especially their long term goal. Sure, they tell us they are trying to save lives and jobs, but that is an aspiration, not a strategy. Again, if you contrast with NZ, NZ laid out a complete list of stages of response and what would happen at each stage. Our government said something like "We are at level 2 now because people aren't doing the right thing. Don't make us go to level 3. We'll tell you what that looks like when we get there".

It ties in with them not showing us the research behind their decision making, but the key strategic element they are not sharing is the long term goal. Sure, things are fluid and can change, and predictions will turn out to be widely off. But that hopefully doesn't mean the government doesn't have long term goals. Just they are not sharing them.

That Professor Blakely who Hildebrand was citing as a source for comfort for us all, says that the government has obviously followed a mitigation strategy of flattening the curve, though the government themselves aren't telling us that. It leaves me to speculate if they aren't sharing because the strategy seems to have some grim future predictions. Blakely predicts under that strategy we will have 30 000 (mostly young and middle aged, if a strategy to protect the old and drive down total deaths is used) to 130 000 deaths, peaking around October with hundreds of thousands of cases per day, with extreme social isolation measures like the ones we are in now going on, until the end of the year, possibly into next year.

If that is the strategy we are following, no wonder they aren't sharing. I hope that is incorrect, and there is better news than that. It would be nice if the governments would tell us what this better news is.


I'm not going into a book length response. The facts are ,this current situation changes by the hour ,both here and overseas, it has overwhelmed everyone regardless of Govt .Scientists are still looking into many aspects of the virus, its component, length of time it operates, lack of ventilators,that symptoms don;t show initially.
They can only tell the Australian people what they know, what medical experts advise Govts Federal and state, rely on daily info as to contracting and deaths, where the main pockets of contraction are, the impact of all the cruise ships and the Ruby Princess ballsup. The arrival of thousands of Australians by plane from overseas, some with the virus .
To suggest they are misleading the public ,with all these anomalies and many others, and trying to bring in measures to reduce people getting the virus and at the same time trying to ensure we have an economy post this mess, is a tad simplistic.It's unknown and unchartered waters.And I've heard varying commentary from both here and abroad as to the best methodoly and they differ.
 

Eion

First Grade
Messages
8,034
I agree and I stil depise these type of Governments,but remember country's like Hungary were once under an authoritarian government(communist), and sometimes people like to bring up the "good old days'(which is ridiculous).If you remember rightly the 1956 Hungarian revolution,and
the uprising against totalitarianism.Even South Korea at one stage had authoritarian rule, that did not last.

Taiwan was once under a authoritarian military Government, but is now a working democracy, whose younger population is extremely democratic and mostly anti Chinese type rule.

I think there is zero chance of Australia, New Zealand of becoming an authoritarian state.We have strong opposing political views and have done so for ages, as is evident here also. Governments are kept accountable, as they are in England and even the USA and Canada.
Trump lost out in Congress recently and who knows the 2020 results.

There is nothing wrong in criticising parties, all must be held accountable.My point in times of national crisis of the current magnitude, where ScoMo & CO have state govts (Labor & LIb) involved in the decision making process, nit picking or point scoring to look as if your active ,achieves little,
Yeah I’m quite happy with both of the parties tbh. Sure there’s been a few cheap points from Bowen and Albo in particular...but a pollie is a pollie and we can’t expect miracles. The consensus has been about as good as I think you can expect, but if the opposition thought the government was well off the mark I’m sure they’d pipe up. Shows they generally agree, or at least can’t come up with anything better they’re prepared to stand behind.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
I'm not going into a book length response. The facts are ,this current situation changes by the hour ,both here and overseas, it has overwhelmed everyone regardless of Govt .Scientists are still looking into many aspects of the virus, its component, length of time it operates, lack of ventilators,that symptoms don;t show initially.
They can only tell the Australian people what they know, what medical experts advise Govts Federal and state, rely on daily info as to contracting and deaths, where the main pockets of contraction are, the impact of all the cruise ships and the Ruby Princess ballsup. The arrival of thousands of Australians by plane from overseas, some with the virus .
To suggest they are misleading the public ,with all these anomalies and many others, and trying to bring in measures to reduce people getting the virus and at the same time trying to ensure we have an economy post this mess, is a tad simplistic.It's unknown and unchartered waters.And I've heard varying commentary from both here and abroad as to the best methodoly and they differ.

Well, you may have heard various commentary from abroad and from here as to the best methodology, but the point is, have you heard any of it from our government? If you have, can you point me to it?

What do they know, that they can only tell us? They haven't told us virtually anything.

When the PM was directly asked for the modelling behind his decision making, he evaded the question. Though he had time to scold people for hoarding supplies. What explanation do you have for this?
 

carcharias

Immortal
Messages
43,120
I think the "adoration" is from international commentators who admire her demeanour in a crisis, which seems to be pretty good, IMHO. In terms of her domestic issues, she is struggling in a pretty non functional coalition, as far as I can tell. Similar to if One Nation had won a half dozen or so seats off the Nationals and formed a coalition government with Labor.

No country tends to implement a policy like gun control based on international incidents. Christchurch was their Port Arthur, and in a fairly conservative country that loves their guns, with a conservative coalition partner, I think Adern should get some praise for her handling of gun control over that incident. Just like Howard did very well with his handling of gun control, leading a conservative government, after Port Arthur.

The NZ economy was fine until coronavirus. Not stellar, but fine
https://www.focus-economics.com/countries/new-zealand
This brief article from before the virus suggests one threat to their economy is our poor one dragging them down...

NZ crime is generally very low, especially compared to most of the world. It is similar to Australia. They have higher gun crime, strangely enough, since they only just introduced their gun laws, but generally their crime rates are a little lower for other crimes than here:
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/New-Zealand/Crime
Obama was a cool dude
He got f**k all done too apparently.

I loved how she had a whinge about scomo sending criminal kiwi scum back to NZ.
f**kers were too lazy to become Australian citizens and then go out bashing people.
Back you go merkin.
 

Quicksilver

Bench
Messages
4,368
Obama was a cool dude
He got f**k all done too apparently.

I loved how she had a whinge about scomo sending criminal kiwi scum back to NZ.
f**kers were too lazy to become Australian citizens and then go out bashing people.
Back you go merkin.

I don't really mind them deporting people who f**k up.

But weren't they deporting people who did things decades ago?

If they are now contributing members of society I don't really see the need to do it.

If we've let them in at some point in the past and they've managed to make a go of it here and keep their nose clean, I don't really see the need to send them back.

One of the aims of the justice system is to rehabilitate people. If they have managed to make an honest life within the existing rules then they should be welcome to stay.
 

carcharias

Immortal
Messages
43,120
I don't really mind them deporting people who f**k up.

But weren't they deporting people who did things decades ago?

If they are now contributing members of society I don't really see the need to do it.

If we've let them in at some point in the past and they've managed to make a go of it here and keep their nose clean, I don't really see the need to send them back.

One of the aims of the justice system is to rehabilitate people. If they have managed to make an honest life within the existing rules then they should be welcome to stay.

I’m talking about the scum who rob rape bash people then get chucked in gaol ... then get the flick the second they get out.

might have lived here almost their entire life
Too bad
Back you go merkin.
Enjoy the shithole that is Auckland.
 

Quicksilver

Bench
Messages
4,368
I’m talking about the scum who rob rape bash people then get chucked in gaol ... then get the flick the second they get out.

might have lived here almost their entire life
Too bad
Back you go merkin.
Enjoy the shithole that is Auckland.

was it limited to those people though? I think they turfed more than just that.
 

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