SJ.

[Thatwasnthighref]

Cam George was very non commital this morning on the radio when asked if there was going to be a contract there for Shaun next year . He dropped into the conversation that both parties had agreed there would only be a deal on the table if SJ could guarantee 100% fitness next year

Really? Bit of an odd one.... I can understand the desire for it, but dunno how anyone could guarantee 100% fitness.

But if SJ didnt commit to it, I guess it shows he didnt trust his body to hold up. And if he was at that point, then calling time was the right call.

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

Think it's the right call.

After last year, I can certainly see why he went around this year, unfortunately his body hasn't quite been right. Granted he has been playing busted, and potentially could have been managed better.

I'd be interested to see how he'll be remembered by fans, has he done enough to eclipse Jones as our best ever halfback?

 

[sup42]

No surprise, been saying all year his body is done.

We should play someone else at 7 in prep for for next year. Nostalgia is the only reason to keep rolling Johnson out.

Won't happen but that's what would be best for the club.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I'd be interested to see how he'll be remembered by fans, has he done enough to eclipse Jones as our best ever halfback?

I'm inclined to say no, Jones slightly ahead...although *whispers* I didn't rate either of them as highly as a lot of Warriors fans do

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

After last year, I can certainly see why he went around this year, unfortunately his body hasn't quite been right. Granted he has been playing busted, and potentially could have been managed better.

That’s the disappointing thing for me. Easy to say in hindsight but looking back now, I do believe he (and to some extent Webster) did himself a disservice by playing busted. And that if he’d been a little more selfish, it may have worked out better for both him and the club.

I'd be interested to see how he'll be remembered by fans, has he done enough to eclipse Jones as our best ever halfback?

IMO, no. Someone might correct me statistically but my sense is Stace was more consistent over his career. I think SJ arguably had the bigger ceiling, but ultimately never quite got there.

 

[JJ]

I'm inclined to say no, Jones slightly ahead...although *whispers* I didn't rate either of them as highly as a lot of Warriors fans do

Agree 100%. Johnson more talented, both overrated imo. Not to say both didn’t have great careers, but imo a level below Sterling, Stuart, Langer, Johns , Thurston…

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

During Jones's career I always saw him as primarily a fast, nippy halfback who had a dangerous running game. His kicking game was ok (not very long) and I always thought his passing was a bit ponderous. I rarely remember him putting teammates through gaps or creating an overlap unless he got through the line with his running game first.

I used to covet the elite Aussies halves of that era who I used to see throwing hard, long cut-out passes, creating overlaps, putting centres and second rowers into gaps. I never saw Jones as being that sort of player.

As often happens, Jones's legend seems to me to have grown in retirement above what I remember it being when he was playing - although I think the reassessment of Jones partly started in 2005 and 2006 when he steered the Kiwis around in two tri-series while past his physical prime.

 

[Blair]

Good career. Great highlight reel. Time to move on

Short and sharp, not far from the truth, but that won't be up in lights during his send off.

 

[Blair]

Agree 100%. Johnson more talented, both overrated imo. Not to say both didn’t have great careers, but imo a level below Sterling, Stuart, Langer, Johns , Thurston…

Add Cronk, Maloney, Cherry-Evans...they all won premierships. You have to win one if you want legend status.

 

[ozenzud]

There are some spectacular moments in his career. I will remember them and says thanks to SJ for playing our game. I can say without risk of being credibly challenged, that the game is better for him having played. He got the rewards from it as well. Both the fans and him, are better off.

 

[JJ]

Add Cronk, Maloney, Cherry-Evans...they all won premierships. You have to win one if you want legend status.

I don’t see Maloney there, and the not like nature of Cronk leaves me cold. Cleary and probably Mortimer in that group, DCE a bit like Mortimer a smidgen below the best (and had Foran). Alexander always a decent comparison to SJ imo, both more talented than pretty much anyone, but never quite cracked it… Alexander looked like he did 90-91 then his world fell apart, and obviously SJ did more internationally

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I listened to *some* of SJ's podcast today, to see what he'd have to say about retirement...

I have to say, if they keep trumpeting that podcasts are the new media, and taking away the power and the rhetoric from journos etc...that they better start asking less sycophantic questions and actually be a bit more subjective, or some may stop listening (me). But maybe, that's not what the new generation does.

At one stage, Marc Peard calls SJ one of the greatest, if not the greatest Kiwis league players of all time, then Brook Ruscoe (SJ's closest mate) calls him probably the greatest Warrior of all time. I couldn't listen on past that. I love positivity, and giving people their dues, but the questions were blowing wind directly up his backside. No real insight.

If SJ is in the top 20 Kiwis of all time, I'd be surprised. If he was in the top 10 Warriors, again, I'd be surprised.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I listened to *some* of SJ's podcast today, to see what he'd have to say about retirement...

I have to say, if they keep trumpeting that podcasts are the new media, and taking away the power and the rhetoric from journos etc...that they better start asking less sycophantic questions and actually be a bit more subjective, or some may stop listening (me). But maybe, that's not what the new generation does.

At one stage, Marc Peard calls SJ one of the greatest, if not the greatest Kiwis league players of all time, then Brook Ruscoe (SJ's closest mate) calls him probably the greatest Warrior of all time. I couldn't listen on past that. I love positivity, and giving people their dues, but the questions were blowing wind directly up his backside. No real insight.

If SJ is in the top 20 Kiwis of all time, I'd be surprised. If he was in the top 10 Warriors, again, I'd be surprised.

This is why I am very, very reluctant to get behind player-created content, despite the seductive sounding rationales offered for it e.g. that it cuts out the middleman, stops journos making up BS, etc etc

Yes it cuts out the middleman, but it doesn't get you any closer to the truth - rather, it just gives you a direct line to the "party line" from the player. This is exactly why journalism exists, because you can't just take what an inherently biased, self-interested party says as the gospel truth. Saying that only the player can give you the correct information about the player is straight up Orwellian logic.

You can see it happening in real time too, you only need to look at Instagram comments for example. Despite all the talk of trolling (which is definitely a real thing) the more striking feature is actually the cultish sycophancy.

This is the same reason I was hesitant to support SJ when he complained about "the trolls" a little while ago. In a lot of ways it's all an attempt by self-interested people to control the narrative and squash negative assessments of them, by replacing it with a biased pro-whoever narrative that frames all criticism as inherently bad.

Beyond that, it's also a pretty bad idea to take critique and analysis out of the hands of people who are actually educated in things like logic, reason, what a fact is etc, and hand it over entirely to footy players who may not have even a rudimentary education in how, say, logic works. If that sounds like pretentious philosophy student babble, well I think it's just as pretentious to think that only footy players are capable of understanding footy when we are all perfectly capable of watching it and more or less observing what is going on.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

This is why I am very, very reluctant to get behind player-created content, despite the seductive sounding rationales offered for it e.g. that it cuts out the middleman, stops journos making up BS, etc etc

Yes it cuts out the middleman, but it doesn't get you any closer to the truth - rather, it just gives you a direct line to the "party line" from the player. This is exactly why journalism exists, because you can't just take what an inherently biased, self-interested party says as the gospel truth. Saying that only the player can give you the correct information about the player is straight up Orwellian logic.

You can see it happening in real time too, you only need to look at Instagram comments for example. Despite all the talk of trolling (which is definitely a real thing) the more striking feature is actually the cultish sycophancy.

This is the same reason I was hesitant to support SJ when he complained about "the trolls" a little while ago. In a lot of ways it's all an attempt by self-interested people to control the narrative and squash negative assessments of them, by replacing it with a biased pro-whoever narrative that frames all criticism as inherently bad.

Beyond that, it's also a pretty bad idea to take critique and analysis out of the hands of people who are actually educated in things like logic, reason, what a fact is etc, and hand it over entirely to footy players who may not have even a rudimentary education in how, say, logic works. If that sounds like pretentious philosophy student babble, well I think it's just as pretentious to think that only footy players are capable of understanding footy when we are all perfectly capable of watching it and more or less observing what is going on.

Yeah, I couldnt agree with this more. I have more thoughts but I'll share them at another time. There has to be an objective voice, as you say.