Smith v Hagan - who is Mr Popular?

[Misty Bee]

Thanks for proving my point. That crap squad was propped up by Johns for years. When he wasn't there the bottom fell out and now that he's gone for good it's fallen out again. Hagan made no attempt to build a decent squad around him that could continue on without him.

That's because Johns sucked the life out of their salary cap. BK and Tahu were the first players affected.

If Joey had taken his glass neck to Union, and Kennedy and Tahu stayed, would the Knights have been worse off?

 

[Stranger]

So why are you riding smiths ass so hard this year if its not his fault?

 

[salivor]

Onething about Hagan is that we have seemed to lift for the big games and not choked. I hope this trend continues. Under Smith we looked way to nervous in the big games and Gould and co would harp on it.

I don't claim to be a big match coach. As I've already said, he's never going to be that bloke to get the team over the final hurdle but he'll get you to that level. If I was on that Newcastle board I'd give him a further 2 years to build up the Knights and then head hunt a top line coach to seal the deal.

 

[Stranger]

That's because Johns sucked the life out of their salary cap. BK and Tahu were the first players affected.

If Joey had taken his glass neck to Union, and Kennedy and Tahu stayed, would the Knights have been worse off?

LMAO! You think knights would have been better off letting Joey go and keeing tahu and Kennedy? :lol:! Please thats too much :lol:!!!!

 

[Ron Jeremy]

LMAO! You think knights would have been better off letting Joey go and keeing tahu and Kennedy? :lol:! Please thats too much :lol:!!!!

You have just answered Newcastles problems and inparticular Hagans, with keeping Johns, Burderus etc he had to offload many fine players.

 

[salivor]

That's because Johns sucked the life out of their salary cap. BK and Tahu were the first players affected.

If Joey had taken his glass neck to Union, and Kennedy and Tahu stayed, would the Knights have been worse off?

How much of that cap was he actually eating up though? A large part of his salary was in third party payments to keep him in the game. No doubt it was still a large chunk but for Simpson, Buderus and a couple of juniors to be your only other quality players at the club, questions have to be asked of the coach. Most other successful clubs, Parramatta included manage to fit far more big name players and talent under their cap.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I don't claim to be a big match coach. As I've already said, he's never going to be that bloke to get the team over the final hurdle but he'll get you to that level. If I was on that Newcastle board I'd give him a further 2 years to build up the Knights and then head hunt a top line coach to seal the deal.

I agree, i think it would be stupid for Newcastle to punt him now, i agree give him that chance to prove me wrong. If he comes out with flying colours then i'll admit his coaching is still good.

 

[salivor]

BTW, I'd like to mark this down as the first and last time that I defend the Knights and Brian Smith.

 

[goboggo]

Yes, credit that to our tremendous junior system. A freak bunch of juniors came through in late 90's early 2000, problem were any good coach would've capitalized on this, yet we lost pretty much all of them except for Hindy, Cayless, Burt thanks to Smith, thats the sad reality.

You're a complet f**king moron. That's all there is to it.

Parra's junior base hasn't changed mate. There hasn't been a sudden influx of genius into the Parramatta region in the last 10 years. The fact is that Brian Smith set the club up to ensure that the juniors were able to realise their potential. That's why there are so many Parra players running around now in other clubs - because they all know that if they get a player that has been in Parra's system that the player will have a good skill set. Argue it if you like, but other coaches have said so.

If you care to remember there were many false dawns for Parra in the late 80's and early 90's, where some talented players came into grade. None of them realised their full potential. That says something about the structure and setup - it just wasn't good enough.

Get over your Smith hate mate, he's not the devil.

Oh, and if the game has passed him by and his time has come, why is it that the Newcastle coaching staff have been quoted as saying that they have been learning an incredible amount of stuff this year?

 

[goboggo]

I agree, i think it would be stupid for Newcastle to punt him now, i agree give him that chance to prove me wrong. If he comes out with flying colours then i'll admit his coaching is still good.

What like you admitted in 05?

Oh, that's right, that was all just because of that "non-skill" recruitment, wasn't it?

 

[Ron Jeremy]

How much of that cap was he actually eating up though? A large part of his salary was in third party payments to keep him in the game. No doubt it was still a large chunk but for Simpson, Buderus and a couple of juniors to be your only other quality players at the club, questions have to be asked of the coach. Most other successful clubs, Parramatta included manage to fit far more big name players and talent under their cap.

Johns
Gidley
Kidley
Burderus
Simpson
Perry
Woolnough


A massive chunk there

if Union were offereing Johns close to Million as per the reports Newy would've used a sh*tload just to retain him alone.

And i'm sure i read somewhere that prior to 2005 Newcastle couldn't even afford to spend their entire cap, heard that a few times...

 

[Misty Bee]

Yes he did and he had the best player in the world in his side and a decent squad around him. For the next 5 years he built nothing on that. Now Parramatta in their current state have a very good squad but they don't look like a premiership winning squad right now to me, I don't see Hagan having the ability to lift them to that level.

You could say that about any coach right now that isn't Craig Bellamy or Des Hasler. Or you could say Parra last week has done better than anyone else in Melbourne this year.

Hagan has the ability to lift to that level. He did that in 01.

 

[salivor]

You could say that about any coach right now that isn't Craig Bellamy or Des Hasler. Or you could say Parra last week has done better than anyone else in Melbourne this year.

Hagan has the ability to lift to that level. He did that in 01.

I don't know about that, Melbourne are just in terrible form at the moment. Brisbane went down there with about 10 players on the sideline and virtually no attacking ability outside of Hodges whatsoever and still managed to hold them to a 14-6 scoreline.

 

[goboggo]

You have just answered Newcastles problems and inparticular Hagans, with keeping Johns, Burderus etc he had to offload many fine players.

haha!! You fool!

What, this problem isn't Smith's problem too?

Yeah these players have been taking up a lot of the cap. That's why Newcastle have struggled this year (Joey not playing remember) and also why they have had to offload the useless bums that they had playing around Joey!! They had no room in the cap so they couldn't hold onto other top quality players. And now they are paying the penalty.

You just shot your own argument right in the foot Ron!

 

[salivor]

Johns
Gidley
Kidley
Burderus
Simpson
Perry
Woolnough


A massive chunk there

if Union were offereing Johns close to Million as per the reports Newy would've used a sh*tload just to retain him alone.

And i'm sure i read somewhere that prior to 2005 Newcastle couldn't even afford to spend their entire cap, heard that a few times...

John got something like $800,000 if I recall correctly, I'd say a good portion of that was in third party payments with the deal he set up with 9.

I doubt Kurt would've been on a huge amount and Perry and Woolnough would've both signed contracts in Hagans time, he has to take some responsibility if they were put on bigger contract than their worth.

 

[Stranger]

You have just answered Newcastle's problems and in particular Hagan's, with keeping Johns, Burderus etc he had to offload many fine players.

No doubt he had to offload fine players, but nobody said he had to keep sh*t players like tanner, brown, hall, Carmont.
Edit * - Thus you see smiths problem this year ;-)

Johns
Gidley
Kidley
Burderus
Simpson
Perry
Woolnough

Kidley was never on a massive amount, wolly either.

And i'm sure i read somewhere that prior to 2005 Newcastle couldn't even afford to spend their entire cap, heard that a few times...

Actually, it was the knights couldn't afford to pay their players. Nothing about not spending to the cap. That was prior to us gaining a main sponsor and joining with Wests.


Ron, your campaign against Smith is just getting tiresome...

 

[Ron Jeremy]

You're a complet f**king moron. That's all there is to it.

Parra's junior base hasn't changed mate. There hasn't been a sudden influx of genius into the Parramatta region in the last 10 years.

Not since 98/99 anyway. Every year is different with players coming through, just look at Cantebury for an example? generally struggle in Ball, Flegg etc but this year are top 4 everywhere.

The fact is that Brian Smith set the club up to ensure that the juniors were able to realise their potential. That's why there are so many Parra players running around now in other clubs

Thats what all coaches are suppose to do, and the reason why others are runing around elsewhere eg Cayless, Ryan, Tonga is that Smith thought he had better. Thats very arguable.

because they all know that if they get a player that has been in Parra's system that the player will have a good skill set. Argue it if you like, but other coaches have said so.

Who? Gould?

If you care to remember there were many false dawns for Parra in the late 80's and early 90's, where some talented players came into grade. None of them realised their full potential. That says something about the structure and setup - it just wasn't good enough.

Yep what would John Monie know hey if your refereing to that 88 president cup squad, and David Penna, Mahon etc did have reasonably succesful careers. Also, Parramatta had financial problems which didn't help our club in the late 80's/80's and retaining Sterlo to a huge amount only to loose him straight away stuffed as right up.

Get over your Smith hate mate, he's not the devil.

Hate is such a strong word, and no he's a good man just imo he's an average coach.

Oh, and if the game has passed him by and his time has come, why is it that the Newcastle coaching staff have been quoted as saying that they have been learning an incredible amount of stuff this year?

A Johns has come out and said he played his best football under Hagan and loearnt so much. Many have said the same thing at Parramatta about Hagan, all coaches offer alot to players, some learn more some dont.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

haha!! You fool!

What, this problem isn't Smith's problem too?

Yeah these players have been taking up a lot of the cap. That's why Newcastle have struggled this year (Joey not playing remember) and also why they have had to offload the useless bums that they had playing around Joey!! They had no room in the cap so they couldn't hold onto other top quality players. And now they are paying the penalty.

You just shot your own argument right in the foot Ron!

OK:lol: they came 4th last year remember.

 

[jamesgould]

sh*t, JG, you got us there. Brian Smith is a better coach that Ronny Hilditch. Smith also won a third grade premiership with Souths about 20 years ago too. He also knew Billy Smith, and probably once had a beer with Mark Shulman. What a resume!!!!

Hagan, who won premierships as a player and a coach, obviously knows nothing.

?

You said that he didn't build the squad that he first had at Parramatta, I was simply pointing out that the squad he inherited had not gelled or performed to standard up to the point that he joined.

 

[Stranger]

OK:lol: they came 4th last year remember.

But Hages wasn't responsible for the spoon right:?