Smith v Hagan - who is Mr Popular?

[Ron Jeremy]

Hagen - luckiest coach around. Handed a premiership team built by Warren Ryan for his first season at Newcastle which has slowly but surely been turned to sh*t. Then comes to Parra and gets to ride on the coatails of Smith and to a lesser extent Taylor's good work. Smith on the other hand came to Parra at a time where they were sh*t and bulit them up to some of the best sides to not win a premiership of the last decade or so, now stuck with the job of post-Andrew Johns Newcaslte as we see what type of players many of them really are.

Yep totally agree, only an idiot woudl think otherwise.

 

[pk76]

Yep totally agree, only an idiot woudl think otherwise.

So why on earth do you spend every f**king day harping on about Smith?? We need Hagan to win a premiership within next 2 years. Knights need Smith to rebuild post-Johns era. Win-win, don't you think? or is your anti-Smith glasses constricting bloodflow to your grey matter...

 

[Ron Jeremy]

So why on earth do you spend every f**king day harping on about Smith?? We need Hagan to win a premiership within next 2 years. Knights need Smith to rebuild post-Johns era. Win-win, don't you think? or is your anti-Smith glasses constricting bloodflow to your grey matter...

Oh please you cannot be serious..........

 

[Eelementary]

So if Hagan was "handed" the Premiership-winning team, and if his prdecesor was so great...How come he won the title that the man before him couldn't in 2000?

 

[Ron Jeremy]

So if Hagan was "handed" the Premiership-winning team, and if his prdecesor was so great...How come he won the title that the man before him couldn't in 2000?

Thats right eele, and its just like saying that Peard was the guy that made Gibson win those 3 premierships in the 80's or like Bennet the reason why Canberra won 89,90.

Its a stupid argument.

 

[Eelementary]

Exactly. And when people make that comment, they steer clear of making the very same comment about Ricky Stuart in 2002. Technically, he was handed that side on a silver platter.

But I'm of the opinion that he managed to coach a very good team to a title on his own merit.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Exactly. And when people make that comment, they steer clear of making the very same comment about Ricky Stuart in 2002. Technically, he was handed that side on a silver platter.

But I'm of the opinion that he managed to coach a very good team to a title on his own merit.

Smith is not a bad coach, i've never called him a bad coach. I've just stated that he is not the messiah that some percieve him to be.

 

[Eelementary]

I agree.

I think he did a fine job of making us competitive again, and I have no doubt he'll do the same for Newcastle with this new clean-out they're having.

But as far as him being a "messiah"...

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I agree.

I think he did a fine job of making us competitive again, and I have no doubt he'll do the same for Newcastle with this new clean-out they're having.

But as far as him being a "messiah"...

He certainly did contribute to us being a force again, although alot of that was done the year prior.

Smith was good for a time, but faded badly in the end.

 

[Eelementary]

Yep. 'Twas his time to move on.

 

[badav]

All games went to the third match, and didn't Hagan introduce the likes of Thurston to Origin?

origin coaches dont pick their own teams, so no he did no introduce thurston to origin.

And second of all, do you think its a coincidence that they improved massively when he left, with much the same team.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I hate to break it to you but origin coaches dont pick their own teams, so no he did no introduce thurston to origin.

And second of all, do you think its a coincidence that they improved massively when he left, with much the same team.

Yes they do contribute, ask a selector. Coaches are given input into such decisons.

Yes Parra did improve heaps after Smith left:? confused on how that benefits your argument?

 

[badav]

i was talking about Michael Hagan and the QLD origin team. Im not arguing for smith as a coach. But your outrageous defense of Michael Hagan is out of insecurity over your own clubs future.

 

[Eelementary]

Do you genuinely believe that Queensland has gotten that much better since Hagan coached them? Or can it also be said that a big part of the reason for NSW sucking so much recently is because the selectors have NFI and don't pick squads based on form and abaility, but reputation?

 

[Ron Jeremy]

i was talking about Michael Hagan and the QLD origin team. Im not arguing for smith as a coach. But your outrageous defense of Michael Hagan is out of insecurity over your own clubs future.

*Using the rationale that Newcastle fans adopt* it was all the work of Hagan that Queensland are now so good:lol:

:lol: your kidding right? please dont make me laugh. If anything your insecurity is over me exposing that Hagan actually done a good job at Newcastle, everytime i say Hagan done well i get shot down with " it was Andrew Johns thats why" or " But Ryan won the premership not Hagan" or " its all hagans fault":lol:

Hagan has done a good job with us this year and blooded many capable juniors in a rebuilding year for us.

 

[badav]

*Using the rationale that Newcastle fans adopt* it was all the work of Hagan that Queensland are now so good:lol:

:lol: your kidding right? please dont make me laugh. If anything your insecurity is over me exposing that Hagan actually done a good job at Newcastle, everytime i say Hagan done well i get shot down with " it was Andrew Johns thats why" or " But Ryan won the premership not Hagan" or " its all hagans fault":lol:

Hagan has done a good job with us this year and blooded many capable juniors in a rebuilding year for us.

But he hasnt. Saying Hagan has done a good job with Newcastle is like saying Lang did a good job with penrith. There was one premiership and its been all downhill from there. But i guess some fans are simple and mixing one premiership amongst years of mediocrity defines a good coach to them.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

But he hasnt. Saying Hagan has done a good job with Newcastle is like saying Lang did a good job with penrith. There was one premiership and its been all downhill from there. But i guess some fans are simple and mixing one premiership amongst years of mediocrity defines a good coach to them.

Unbelievable

 

[strewth_mate]

If anything your insecurity is over me exposing that Hagan actually done a good job at Newcastle, everytime i say Hagan done well i get shot down with " it was Andrew Johns thats why" or " But Ryan won the premership not Hagan" or " its all hagans fault"

Hagan has done a good job with us this year and blooded many capable juniors in a rebuilding year for us.

Trying to avoid bias of course, but I really cannot see how at the end of Hagan's stint at Newcastle he can be judged to have done a particularly good job - over the whole six years. Our team has become rather soft and complacent, which is a very poor legacy. Now, I'm thrilled with 2001, the players were happy and remarkably injury-free across the team. 2002 was a good year too except for the dismal showing in the finals.

Since then, what's happened? Would you honestly say we have been a strong team/club in the past few seasons? Why/why not? Frankly I don't think the '4th last year' argument is worth much when you consider Parra won the minor premiership the year before, unless you consider yourself immune to hipocrisy. Both angles are as valid as each other - both astute points or both flawed. If 2005 can be ignored 'in the scheme of things', then why not 2006? Not rhetorical questions btw.

The Eels have done very well this year while we've struggled pitifully. Look at our useless whinging players - they're supposed to be professionals, yet they're turning out with sh*t on and off the field. Very few of them are actually earning what they're supposedly worth, according to the contracts we offered them. As a generalisation, this is what happens when you become comfortable. You're suggesting that Hagan was a resounding success at the Knights, and will emulate this at Parramatta, but to get anywhere with that you cannot ignore our past few seasons, and current situation, any more than you can your own.

I said it before but was ignored - at the time of the announced coach swap, it was the winner of the spoon for the winner of the minor premiership. What did you think of the swap at the time? Seeing as Newcastle coming 4th last year is apparently such a convincing and often repeated argument, and as ladder position is the be all and end all (when it suits), and that the deal was done before we actually came 4th, this is very convenient.

Sad thing is, I really do think Hagan is a good thing for your club at the moment. They seem to want to play football. They have a good setup and club culture and are finally getting some coach love. I just hope for your sake that you give him the boot after the club has had its little rejuvination session because I fail to see that he will do a great deal to strengthen the club beyond what it currently is. He is an especially conservative coach that, judging by his actions at Newcastle, will not cope if his tree is shaken, and there is as of yet no evidence that Parra will not be in a similar position to us in time. Newcastle at the moment is a f**king rabble of a club and it surely didn't happen overnight. There are very good reasons why Novocastrians are upset with Hagan - why do you think that is?

Unbelievable

I think maybe people just have different criteria for success; I know I'd have liked my team to have actually been capable of winning a premiership in recent times rather than living off the success of one half a decade ago, but maybe it's just me.

Just out of curiosity, and try to answer it sincerely - given six years of Hagan as coach, what would you want your club to have achieved, and what would you consider to have been a successful tenure?

(And it's kind of odd that, in effect, people are trying to argue that their own team is worse than the other :lol

 

[Stranger]

Please Strewth, don't make sense.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Trying to avoid bias of course, but I really cannot see how at the end of Hagan's stint at Newcastle he can be judged to have done a particularly good job - over the whole six years. Our team has become rather soft and complacent, which is a very poor legacy. Now, I'm thrilled with 2001, the players were happy and remarkably injury-free across the team. 2002 was a good year too except for the dismal showing in the finals.

Since then, what's happened? Would you honestly say we have been a strong team/club in the past few seasons? Why/why not? Frankly I don't think the '4th last year' argument is worth much when you consider Parra won the minor premiership the year before, unless you consider yourself immune to hipocrisy. Both angles are as valid as each other - both astute points or both flawed. If 2005 can be ignored 'in the scheme of things', then why not 2006? Not rhetorical questions btw.

The Eels have done very well this year while we've struggled pitifully. Look at our useless whinging players - they're supposed to be professionals, yet they're turning out with sh*t on and off the field. Very few of them are actually earning what they're supposedly worth, according to the contracts we offered them. As a generalisation, this is what happens when you become comfortable. You're suggesting that Hagan was a resounding success at the Knights, and will emulate this at Parramatta, but to get anywhere with that you cannot ignore our past few seasons, and current situation, any more than you can your own.

I said it before but was ignored - at the time of the announced coach swap, it was the winner of the spoon for the winner of the minor premiership. What did you think of the swap at the time? Seeing as Newcastle coming 4th last year is apparently such a convincing and often repeated argument, and as ladder position is the be all and end all (when it suits), and that the deal was done before we actually came 4th, this is very convenient.

Sad thing is, I really do think Hagan is a good thing for your club at the moment. They seem to want to play football. They have a good setup and club culture and are finally getting some coach love. I just hope for your sake that you give him the boot after the club has had its little rejuvination session because I fail to see that he will do a great deal to strengthen the club beyond what it currently is. He is an especially conservative coach that, judging by his actions at Newcastle, will not cope if his tree is shaken, and there is as of yet no evidence that Parra will not be in a similar position to us in time. Newcastle at the moment is a f**king rabble of a club and it surely didn't happen overnight. There are very good reasons why Novocastrians are upset with Hagan - why do you think that is?



I think maybe people just have different criteria for success; I know I'd have liked my team to have actually been capable of winning a premiership in recent times rather than living off the success of one half a decade ago, but maybe it's just me.

Just out of curiosity, and try to answer it sincerely - given six years of Hagan as coach, what would you want your club to have achieved, and what would you consider to have been a successful tenure?

(And it's kind of odd that, in effect, people are trying to argue that their own team is worse than the other :lol

Good read, and refreshing to have a resonably unbiased judgement:lol: ;-)

A premiership, that's it. Yes i want to still be reasonably successful after it, but with the salary cap that's always a struggle for many sides. If Hagan doesn't achieve in 3 years then he should be shown the door, just like maybe Smith should be as well.

Look, this argument is getting no where, but i think this year has proved a little that Hagan can coach without a key playmaker and has done some made people on our board happy by selecting the right players.

I can't complain about hagan, he too is rebuilding Parramatta after the fiasco last year, and has made the tough decisions when needed. Unless he starts failing then he'll have my full support.