Southern Orcas (NZ2)

[cumbrian Mackem]

Any other Sydney team do you think could move to Central Coast full time ?

Geographically only manly makes sense as the roosters will never relocate to the central coast due to their wealthy backer and the new stadium ditto the sharks with the redevelopment of shark park.

 

[Perth Red]

Any other Sydney team do you think could move to Central Coast full time ?

No one is moving to a regional city of less than 200k people, Hardley any corporates and a stadium of 20k. It would be financial suicide.

 

[Perth Red]

I think the NRL look at NZ2 in terms of the whole of NZ with fans and players.

Then they are stupid as professional sport doesnt work like that. If it did the warriors would have a membership on par with the biggest afl clubs And be as successful as Storm With all the players in nz to choose from.

 

[cumbrian Mackem]

Then they are stupid as professional sport doesnt work like that. If it did the warriors would have a membership on par with the biggest afl clubs And be as successful as Storm With all the players in nz to choose from.

To the best of my knowledge no NRL club let alone the warriors are on a par with AFL clubs in terms of membership and maybe if the warriors weren’t a poorly run club the best junior rugby talent in both league and union wouldn’t leave for Australia.

 

[Colk]

To the best of my knowledge no NRL club let alone the warriors are on a par with AFL clubs in terms of membership and maybe if the warriors weren’t a poorly run club the best junior rugby talent in both league and union wouldn’t leave for Australia.

Hasn’t a lot of that talent spent a lot of their lives in Australia? There’s nothing that the Warriors can do if their parents move to Australia

Sure the Warriors are a poorly run club but there are myriad other factors. It’s a little naive of the ARLC to expect a whole swath of players to be developed just because they plonk a side there. They need to be a lot smarter with the Warriors and this new team than that, although that is also the case with any option they choose

 

[cumbrian Mackem]

Hasn’t a lot of that talent spent a lot of their lives in Australia? There’s nothing that the Warriors can do if their parents move to Australia

Sure the Warriors are a poorly run club but there are myriad other factors. It’s a little naive of the ARLC to expect a whole swath of players to be developed just because they plonk a side there. They need to be a lot smarter with the Warriors and this new team than that, although that is also the case with any option they choose

Sure, lots of kiwi families migrate to Australia with work but a lot of young kiwi schoolboy talent are scouted by NRL clubs at the the of 16-18 or even younger to play in their junior sides.

 

[Colk]

Sure, lots of kiwi families migrate to Australia with work but a lot of young kiwi schoolboy talent are scouted by NRL clubs at the the of 16-18 or even younger to play in their junior sides.

That’s true. As can be seen with the Dolphins though it is hard to recruit for new teams the ARLC need to really plan this expansion well - something which Rugby League has been mostly terrible at.

 

[The Great Dane]

A lot of the Kiwi players in the NRL are poached from RU schools in NZ as well.

Truth be told the Warriors don't even get a chance to sign most of the Kiwi talent that comes into the NRL, and even if they did they'd have to turn most of it away because there's way more talent in NZ then their junior system can support by it's self.

 

[cumbrian Mackem]

Anybody else think that the old televised Toyota cup u20’s competition was a great way of attracting union talent from NZ, Australia and even Fiji?

 

[cumbrian Mackem]

A lot of the Kiwi players in the NRL are poached from RU schools in NZ as well.

Truth be told the Warriors don't even get a chance to sign most of the Kiwi talent that comes into the NRL, and even if they did they'd have to turn most of it away because there's way more talent in NZ then their junior system can support by it's self.

Just goes to show how much junior RL talent there is in NZ and the potential to poach even more Union schoolboy talent as well.

 

[The Great Dane]

Just goes to show how much junior RL talent there is in NZ and the potential to poach even more Union schoolboy talent as well.

Sort of, not really.

Sydney's population is only a little bigger than NZ's. If you had a single club for all the talent in Sydney it'd have similar problems to NZ.

In fact country NSW, and country Qld to a lesser extent, are the perfect examples. Shit tons of potential NRL quality talent from those country regions get turned away by the sport simply because there isn't enough room in the professional pathways to support it all.

Take the Panthers; their current success is built in no small part off the back of talent from the Central West, a good portion of which would not have be given an opportunity in the NRL until the Panthers started actively sourcing and developing juniors from that region.

It's one of the major reasons why I say that the real growth in NZ is in the lower tiers, because there's way more you can do to build pro pathways across NZ in a well developed second tier than in the NRL alone.
Same goes for NSW, it's a travesty that the NSW Cup doesn't have any independent clubs from the bush in it, and when it looked like one was possible V'landys killed it, but that's another discussion.

 

[The Great Dane]

Without a defined pathway and direct nrl club linkages it has limited effect, all of the evidence proves this.

Sure, but it's not the NRL's nor Perth's job to run the PNGRL or develop it's talent, the NRL and Perth's involvement will cause the PNGRL to become evermore reliant on their support, and it will have negative effects on the development of talent locally in WA specifically and Australia more broadly, whom no other foreign body is going to come in and develop for the NRL, WARL, or Perth NRL team while they are developing Papuans.

The last things the NRL needs is another Melbourne Storm style club sucking talent from a heartland instead of aggressively developing new talent pools in their market, and the last thing international RL and RL in general needs is another developing nation to be totally shanghaied into a development system for the NRL rather than being allowed to slowly develop their own largely independent systems and leagues.

 

[The Great Dane]

I think the NRL look at NZ2 in terms of the whole of NZ with fans and players.

As soon as they split the market it'll be impossible to treat it as a singular national market.

Besides if the NRL want's market coverage of NZ, like RU has, then they'll need 4-5 clubs in NZ representing it's largest cities/regions.

 

[Perth Red]

Sure, but it's not the NRL's nor Perth's job to run the PNGRL or develop it's talent, the NRL and Perth's involvement will cause the PNGRL to become evermore reliant on their support, and it will have negative effects on the development of talent locally in WA specifically and Australia more broadly, whom no other foreign body is going to come in and develop for the NRL, WARL, or Perth NRL team while they are developing Papuans.

The last things the NRL needs is another Melbourne Storm style club sucking talent from a heartland instead of aggressively developing new talent pools in their market, and the last thing international RL and RL in general needs is another developing nation to be totally shanghaied into a development system for the NRL rather than being allowed to slowly develop their own largely independent systems and leagues.

Problem is that takes massive investment for a long time, and the nrl have no heart for such investment. look at what afl is spending on grassroots and academies in nsw and qlnd and you get the picture. It’s very expensive to get enough kids playing rl in a non rl state to create enough cream for an nrl club to skim and develop into first graders. We’ve done ok on limited funds and no direct pathway with our sg ball pushing through about 30 kids into east coast comps and 4 or 5 into first grade, but it’s way below What’s needed.

On top of strengthening WA jnrs it would be beneficial to fund an academy in PNG take the top 50 kids and give them high quality coaching then bring the best ten over to perth into an established nrl system every year. The rest go back to strengthen the digital cup.

 

[The Great Dane]

Problem is that takes massive investment for a long time, and the nrl have no heart for such investment. look at what afl is spending on grassroots and academies in nsw and qlnd and you get the picture. It’s very expensive to get enough kids playing rl in a non rl state to create enough cream for an nrl club to skim and develop into first graders. We’ve done ok on limited funds and no direct pathway with our sg ball pushing through about 30 kids into east coast comps and 4 or 5 into first grade, but it’s way below What’s needed.

Yet that's exactly what the NRL and Perth club are/should be signing up to achieve if they take on the region...

Nobody is saying it needs to happen instantly, or that it won't be difficult or costly, but it is your (ARLC, NRL, WARL, and future Perth NRL club's) job to oversee the governance and growth of the sport in WA, where as PNG is PNG's concern and, broadly speaking, should remain so.

On top of strengthening WA jnrs it would be beneficial to fund an academy in PNG take the top 50 kids and give them high quality coaching then bring the best ten over to perth into an established nrl system every year. The rest go back to strengthen the digital cup.

Beneficial to whom? The Perth NRL club or RL as a whole?

Because it seems to me that that would be very beneficial to the Perth side, but not so beneficial to PNG or RL as a whole, and your first interest may be to the success of a Perth NRL side at the expense of all else, but it shouldn't be the NRL's...

Besides, all those benefits can be achieved simply by incentivising the NRL clubs to heavily scout PNG, which would be as simple as finding a way to make getting visas for Papuan players easier because that tends to be the major hurdle in getting Papuans into the NRL system anyway.

 

[Dark Corner]

No one is moving to a regional city of less than 200k people, Hardley any corporates and a stadium of 20k. It would be financial suicide.

So why was the stadium built then.

 

[MugaB]

Beneficial to whom? The Perth NRL club or RL as a whole?

Because it seems to me that that would be very beneficial to the Perth side, but not so beneficial to PNG or RL as a whole, and your first interest may be to the success of a Perth NRL side at the expense of all else, but it shouldn't be the NRL's...

Besides, all those benefits can be achieved simply by incentivising the NRL clubs to heavily scout PNG, which would be as simple as finding a way to make getting visas for Papuan players easier because that tends to be the major hurdle in getting Papuans into the NRL system anyway.

This again is the bias again from PR, basically its lets get papuan juniors and play them as perth/WA reserve graders.... heres a thought, why don't you get the best 50 Western Australians and train them instead..PNG is miles away yet instead of them getting their own pathway into the NRL, you want them to via perth to boost WAs chances of a license... it ludicrous!

The fact that port moresby is an hour flight away from cairns... roughly 800kms,
....Perth is over 4000kms away

 

[Dark Corner]

Whats the point in all this investment in Australia as the country be not healthy to live in by 2050 ?...you Aussies and Kiwis should head route to Europe as you be more the welcome

 

[siv]

Anybody else think that the old televised Toyota cup u20’s competition was a great way of attracting union talent from NZ, Australia and even Fiji?

Yes it was

But it put too much expectation to succeed without the NRL RG layer

 

[siv]

As soon as they split the market it'll be impossible to treat it as a singular national market.

Besides if the NRL want's market coverage of NZ, like RU has, then they'll need 4-5 clubs in NZ representing it's largest cities/regions.

This is where a NZ Cup steps in

Anyone know how much a NZRU provisional team costs to run?