Surely it is time for the NRL.....

[morley101]

Berkeley and Kingswood don't provide the Roosters with a great deal of income, and knowing the Roosters Leagues Club, they'll have already turned them into pokie slums.

Considering the monies those clubs make have to go back into the communities where the clubs are, they aren't making much money at all from them.

They were most likely originally purchased as assets so as to get a large loan to approve the extension of the Roosters Leagues Club back in 2005.

As a business East's leagues are in much better financial position than
most of the Sydney based leagues clubs
Cronulla ( looking for other clubs to take them over)
Penrith ( selling assets).
Canterbury Leagues are #1 and Easts are # 2
Parramatta have stablised and are doing much better.
St George have also stablised and are doing ok.
Balmain leagues are strugling a bit but will be ok once things are sorted I believe. Wests are doing pretty well.
Manly Leagues club is struggling ( doesn't matter as they contribute little to the team)
Souths ?

 

[adamkungl]

crowd figures, juniors area mostly.

Crowd figures would go up if we stopped playing like busteds every second year. 2003-2005 we were pretty much at the top of Sydney teams. Anyway our memberships are over 10,000.

As for local junior areas, as much as I'd like us to be doing more in this are, for reasons both within and outside our control it seems unlikely to happen. However development-wise there are just as many 16s and upwards coming through our grades as any other club, many from country areas and NZ. No one can claim Roosters shirk on player development, as much as people like to delude themselves as such. The majority of our best talents in first grade made their FG debut with us.

 

[juro]

Proof in point, the two current merged clubs, Dragons and Tigers.
In 1997 - St.George avg crowd was 7222, Illawarra was 8695 - Combined 15917
It took The St.George-Illawarra entity until 2011 to eclipse that combined total
In 1999 - Balmain avg crowd was 9710, Wests was 9343 - Combined 19053
It took Wests Tigers a Grand Final victory (which neither club had seen since Balmain's in 1969) to eclpise that. It hasn't surpassed it since.

One thing to remember with home crowds is that the average also includes away fans. If Balmain and Wests both got 2000 away fans per game, the average for their fans in 1999 would have been 7710 and 7343 respectively, for a combined 15053. Now Wests Tigers averaged 17848 in 2011, less 2000 away fans giving 15848.

Other things that will drag down the average for merged sides is the upper capacity of their grounds. Leichhardt and Campbelltown both have capacities of about 20000, so that puts an upper limit on their average. Moving games to Homebush and then the SFS has obviously helped alleviate this problem.

 

[ozjet1]

Well researced Madunit....

THe Easts leagues club group which has 3 Clubs ( Bondi Junction, Kingswood and Berkeley) and is investing 27 Million dollars into a club in Narellen are doing nothing to ensure their future ? :crazy:

if any NRL CEO or commission in the future needs to make the hard call on clubs in the sydney urban area based on a criteria, it would be in regards to the business of operating a football team, not a leagues club. It's the business of the Eastern Suburbs District Rugby League Football Club that needs to be sustainable, not the Easts Leagues club group.

Im not privy to how the Roosters Football club is operating. To be honest, i dont know. Im just saying that the viability of the the Roosters and every other club in the comp should be judged on a football club's core business of operating an NRL team. This means ensuring that all football clubs are continually viable in their affairs of operating an NRL football team - the football-related costs of players, coaches, support and admin staff, training facilities, gameday, & junior player programs need to be met by football related revenue from sponsorship, ticketed members, gameday, merchandise, NRL distribution & prizemoney.

 

[ozjet1]

Crowd figures would go up if we stopped playing like busteds every second year. 2003-2005 we were pretty much at the top of Sydney teams. Anyway our memberships are over 10,000.

As for local junior areas, as much as I'd like us to be doing more in this are, for reasons both within and outside our control it seems unlikely to happen. However development-wise there are just as many 16s and upwards coming through our grades as any other club, many from country areas and NZ. No one can claim Roosters shirk on player development, as much as people like to delude themselves as such. The majority of our best talents in first grade made their FG debut with us.

a geographically small junior area or small number of junior teams doesnt mean the the club isnt doing anything. this shouldnt be the absolute concern of junior development for the NRL or any elite sporting club. it's the identification, development and keeping potential NRL talent that is important, and i reckon the roosters do a decent job here.

 

[Jason Maher]

Another get rid of Cronulla thread pathetic

Almost as pathetic as your "Clayton's Premiers" schtick. ;-)

 

[Lambretta]

Sydney population 4 575 000

Rockhampton population 76000.

Sydney clubs = 8.5. Average population per club: 538 000

THIS ^^^

A team in Rockhampton makes about as much sense as a team in Wagga Wagga (over 50,000) or Coffs Harbour (around 70,000)

Perth, a second Brisbane or even another New Zealand team makes far more sense than bleedin' Rockhampton.

Oh and on the subject of a relocated Roosters - I'd still support them if they were relocated. If they were merged, I'd have to consider where, with who etc before making my mind up. Would probably just end up supporting Manly as they're the most local team to me or Parramatta or Souths because I'm a f**king idiot.

 

[PaddyBoy]

Does anyone know what Easts plans are to get more fans when their boundaries are increasingly becoming cbd and other business territory rather than residential? Is there a plan?

 

[Lambretta]

Based on...absolutely nothing.

No, based on personal bias.

However if you look at the arguement wholistically the most likely team to go under need relocation is Cronulla followed by the Panthers, Roosters and Manly.

This is when you take into account supporter bases, future growth prospects, junior bases, financial posistions etc.

Some clubs are stronger in some areas than others - the Panthers have a wonderful juniors nursery and the Roosters have financial backing. On those items alone it is highly unlikely, in fact highly improbable that either club would be going anywhere anytime soon.

Manly have their own financial problems a poor stadium and can suffer with crowd numbers, but they've been strong on the field, have always found backers and their ground will be redeveloped in coming years and that will assist with crowd numbers. They're also massively important to the NRL as they're the only existing club to the North of the harbour.

In all honesty the NRL will only move a club if it folds where it is now and the only club in danger of that happening is the Sharks. Even then it's unlikely if they'll fold as they're more likely the relocate. So if they do that it still doesnt give space in the competition to another club. It will just be the Central Coast Sharks or the South Australian Sharks or wherever they relocate to. They'd maintain their heritage, their colours, their logo and their roots in the Shire.

 

[woodyk2]

The two current merges that make no sense to me...and this is in no way shape or form a dig at your clubs...Are St.George Illawarra...and the Wests Tigers....geographically they make no sense at all. Parra/canterbury makes more sense as does Cronulla/st.george. Balmain/roosters and wests/penrith?Manly/central coast?

 

[ozjet1]

Does anyone know what Easts plans are to get more fans when their boundaries are increasingly becoming cbd and other business territory rather than residential? Is there a plan?

although territory has an effect the most important thing factor in the modern era for all clubs is the development and attractiveness of their brand - featuring marketable players, an oratorical coach, attractive football, and field teams that more often than not are winning or competing for premierships.

 

[Lambretta]

Does anyone know what Easts plans are to get more fans when their boundaries are increasingly becoming cbd and other business territory rather than residential? Is there a plan?

Well they could always give us back Coogee and Maroubra from Souths

The Roosters have now alligned themselves with Newtown, so it seems they want to move West of the CBD and calling themselves "Sydney" as opposed to Easts is part of that overall plan.

Also Easts seems to be the club that the Asians allign themselves to. I work for Citibank in the CBD - a company with a high percentage of Asian employees and of those that follow the NRL the vast majority are Roosters supporters. They'd do well to spend more time involving themselves in the Asian community and getting that community involved in Rugby League.

 

[M2D2]

Cronulla wont relocate. They will go under or stay in the shire.

 

[Lambretta]

The two current merges that make no sense to me...and this is in no way shape or form a dig at your clubs...Are St.George Illawarra...and the Wests Tigers....geographically they make no sense at all. Parra/canterbury makes more sense as does Cronulla/st.george. Balmain/roosters and wests/penrith?Manly/central coast?

Look on a map and see where Ashfield and Balmain are and then come back to this thread.

Also, St George and the Illawarra shared a boundary - it's just their regions were rather large. Other than the Shire, there wasnt anything between the St George area and the Illawarra.

Dragons and Sharks would never work. It would have been like Manly and Norths. A merger has to be a symbiotic relationship where mutual co-operation creates benefits for each party. That means that teams that are traditional enemies cannot merge.

You couldn't merge Souths and Easts for example, but Easts and Newtown wouldn't be so bad.

You cant merge Parra and Canterbury for the same reason - the clubs are natural enemies and would just fight until one came out alive.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Here's is a bit of fuel to add to this fire.

* 4 teams over a 6-10 year period starting from 2013/14.
* NRL to review all club licenses every decade with the exception of the 4 new teams for the first 2 reviews (therefore giving them 20 years to establish themselves properly, unchallenged).
* No special club grants to any expansion teams (however WA & NZ get extra for their grass roots development).
* PNG & various Pacific Islands get affiliation with current clubs so their juniors have a clear pathway.

* NRL bids to demonstrate they can add to the NRL pie, sustain themselves financially with a water tight business/financial plan, show community support via. a quota of 10k memberships, show that they have infrastructure, a minimum of $4million on the coffers pre-license, an array of sponsors both locally and nationally.

2013-15: Central Coast Bears/W.A. Reds (low risk/high risk - heartland/expansion)
2018-23: Western Corridor (Ipswich)/New Zealand II Orcas (low risk/high risk - heartland/expansion)

Central Queensland & Adelaide to remain relocation options with $45million carrot for any takers (not a massive amount I know but realistically what the game can afford). If no takers by 2025 then introduce Central Qld/Adelaide before 2030 (mid risk/high risk - heartland/expansion). Obviously there would have been at least 2 NRL club license reviews by that stage. Foresight, everyone wins. Everyone's happy.

 

[Lambretta]

Cronulla wont relocate. They will go under or stay in the shire.

Personally I get the same impression. If they want to become a NSW Cup side and a development area only where all their players end up with the Dragons or the Roosters then that's up to them.

Their future is theirs to f**k up - same as it's always been.

 

[madunit]

No, based on personal bias.

That's your opinion and it's a long long way from accurate.

I've never hated the Roosters, got a bit of a soft spot for them, mainly for their history and their humble attitude about their great past compared to a certain other club that likes to big note itself and give itself titles such as 'pride of the league'.

If Easts Leagues spent more time focussing on buying/merging with more clubs in their local area, I believe they and the Roosters Football club, would be a lot stronger and more secure.

A lot of clubs don't exist solely to prop up their respective football clubs, they exist to support their immediate community and their own interests first and foremost.

This is seen in Leagues Clubs like Balmain and Cronulla looking to build massive developments to sure up their income and financial security.

Clubs like Easts and Penrith Leagues Clubs buying up clubs in areas that aren't in their locale, is done purely to boost assets to help improve their loan application so as to enhance the main Leagues Club.

Cronulla leagues are trying to merge/affiliate with other local pubs for a similar reason.

 

[Lambretta]

Apologies madunit for jumping to the wrong conclusion

I happen to agree that for many reasons the Roosters are probably one of the most likely clubs to be merged, relocated. But there is a mile of difference between "most likely to be relocated" in comparrison to the other clubs and likely to be relocated in actual life.

In all honesty I think there's only one club in Sydney whose current set up / framework isn't workable in the medium to long term.

Everyone else is safe for a decade at least.

 

[ozjet1]

Look on a map and see where Ashfield and Balmain are and then come back to this thread.

Also, St George and the Illawarra shared a boundary - it's just their regions were rather large. Other than the Shire, there wasnt anything between the St George area and the Illawarra.

Dragons and Sharks would never work. It would have been like Manly and Norths. A merger has to be a symbiotic relationship where mutual co-operation creates benefits for each party. That means that teams that are traditional enemies cannot merge.

You couldn't merge Souths and Easts for example, but Easts and Newtown wouldn't be so bad.

You cant merge Parra and Canterbury for the same reason - the clubs are natural enemies and would just fight until one came out alive.

exactly. need to consider more factors than just geographic areas.

the success of the mergers hs turned out to be a highlight for the game from the otherwise farcical BS of that the period it was born.

wests and balmain shared an inner west relationship, similar fanbase, and colours that worked together to maintain both partners identity. saints and illawarra were a fit based on colours too, as well as historical talent zones (some of Saints great players came from the Illawarra) so have a history of strong support from that region. most importantly in both cases, the parties wanted to make it work and didnt have a history of rival BS affecting internal politics.

 

[Haffa]

I like it! Means Sydney fans can can catch every game of the season, good rivalries, and bigger home crowds. Keep Newcastle (close enough) and bring the Bears back. Perfect.

Brisbane, Gold Coast, Cowboys, NZ, Canberra, Melbourne, maybe bring in Perth, Adelaide, Sunshine Coast - whoever - have a separate comp. Please yourselves.

I'll support that.