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The Case for Adelaide.....

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,001
^ None of the above is relevant to Adelaide...

So anyone for Adelaide Bulldogs?
Adelaide Roosters is a better fit, same colors as the previous rams, and for all the talk of manly without the Penns, it's the same as Roosters without Politis, within another decade roosters will be operating without his influence, and they'll be in the same boat as manly.

No reason roosters could not take on more north shore area, as you stated regarding what manly could be doing
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Adelaide Roosters is a better fit, same colors as the previous rams, and for all the talk of manly without the Penns, it's the same as Roosters without Politis, within another decade roosters will be operating without his influence, and they'll be in the same boat as manly.

No reason roosters could not take on more north shore area, as you stated regarding what manly could be doing

If my club was struggling, I would honestly be pushing them to make some kind of meaningful change. Whether that be a relocation or otherwise would depend on the situation, but I'm a big believer in 'do the same thing, get the same result'.

The constant narrative about relocating the Roosters though is based on fantasy.

1. Treating each club as a 'branch' of the NRL business, no one moves their most successful branch. You move underperforming stores to better locations. It's backwards crazy person logic. Roosters are dominant on and off the field.
The NRL will never, nor should they, force someone to move. Any move will come about by necessity when someone hits the wall in Sydney, and it won't be the Roosters.

2. Penn v Politis isn't an apples to apples comparison, it's not an apples to oranges comparison, it's apples to dust.
Politis has set the club up with a secure future, with big sponsorship value, a well-connected board, diverse income streams backed by a hefty property portfolio. He's not tipping personal funds into the joint year by year.
Manly have sweet f**k all behind them, and Penn (according to reports) puts money in every year just to keep them on the park.
It would take decades of mismanagement for Roosters to be in the same boat as Manly.

3. Roosters should be slicing out a chunk of the lower north shore, no doubt about it. They already have junior and womens development programs on the Central Coast. They could do more. Unlike Manly, a Roosters full relocation would be to a worse stadium, in a smaller and less wealthy location.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
If my club was struggling, I would honestly be pushing them to make some kind of meaningful change. Whether that be a relocation or otherwise would depend on the situation, but I'm a big believer in 'do the same thing, get the same result'.

The constant narrative about relocating the Roosters though is based on fantasy.

1. Treating each club as a 'branch' of the NRL business, no one moves their most successful branch. You move underperforming stores to better locations. It's backwards crazy person logic. Roosters are dominant on and off the field.
The NRL will never, nor should they, force someone to move. Any move will come about by necessity when someone hits the wall in Sydney, and it won't be the Roosters.

2. Penn v Politis isn't an apples to apples comparison, it's not an apples to oranges comparison, it's apples to dust.
Politis has set the club up with a secure future, with big sponsorship value, a well-connected board, diverse income streams backed by a hefty property portfolio. He's not tipping personal funds into the joint year by year.
Manly have sweet f**k all behind them, and Penn (according to reports) puts money in every year just to keep them on the park.
It would take decades of mismanagement for Roosters to be in the same boat as Manly.

3. Roosters should be slicing out a chunk of the lower north shore, no doubt about it. They already have junior and womens development programs on the Central Coast. They could do more. Unlike Manly, a Roosters full relocation would be to a worse stadium, in a smaller and less wealthy location.

Yep, North Shore needs dividing between Roosters and Manly with Bears being Roosters feeder club. Manly rebranded and supported by NRL to push out from the edge into the upper North shore region with a push for a new stadium somewhere accessible. I dont know how many survive each year given their poor crowds, poor corporate facilities and lack of other revenue.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,966
I was listening to a podcast with an interview with Paul Kennedy from the ABC who wrote a book on the Storm.

In the interview he mentioned that News Ltd need Melbourne to be strong as with the markets of Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne they can attract national sponsors. He said they don't need Perth or Adelaide to attract these national sponsors.

I guess this is why there has been no desire for Perth from the head honchos running our game, yet Brisbane No.2 are coming.

After all thanks to Pete, News Ltd are allover our game again.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,001
If my club was struggling, I would honestly be pushing them to make some kind of meaningful change. Whether that be a relocation or otherwise would depend on the situation, but I'm a big believer in 'do the same thing, get the same result'.

The constant narrative about relocating the Roosters though is based on fantasy.

1. Treating each club as a 'branch' of the NRL business, no one moves their most successful branch. You move underperforming stores to better locations. It's backwards crazy person logic. Roosters are dominant on and off the field.
The NRL will never, nor should they, force someone to move. Any move will come about by necessity when someone hits the wall in Sydney, and it won't be the Roosters.

2. Penn v Politis isn't an apples to apples comparison, it's not an apples to oranges comparison, it's apples to dust.
Politis has set the club up with a secure future, with big sponsorship value, a well-connected board, diverse income streams backed by a hefty property portfolio. He's not tipping personal funds into the joint year by year.
Manly have sweet f**k all behind them, and Penn (according to reports) puts money in every year just to keep them on the park.
It would take decades of mismanagement for Roosters to be in the same boat as Manly.

3. Roosters should be slicing out a chunk of the lower north shore, no doubt about it. They already have junior and womens development programs on the Central Coast. They could do more. Unlike Manly, a Roosters full relocation would be to a worse stadium, in a smaller and less wealthy location.
Honestly, written by a Roosters fan,
Wait till your "dominance" on the field dips, and the fans stop bothering to show up, off the field it wont matter.
The fact that manly, wests and cronulla are around allbeit not viable, will show that if your not servicing a part of the map of Sydney (which you're really not)
You're not useful, ony thing that roosters have going for it is that its an inception club, which also wont matter coz norths, newtown and souths had all been dropped, wests and balmain merged, while "easts" have miraculously sidestepped having to merge or been culled, by pretending to be a club for "the city", but bondi isn't the harbour, if anything South Sydney is closer to moore park than bondi. And the City of sydney has 8.5 teams of which all but Easts are needed IN Sydney, which is why i keep saying if they aren't contributing to engage north shore or northern sydney, they aren't nessesary in sydney, and calling themselves "sydney" when they share the city with 8 other teams, is just brutality arrogant, at least be north or east sydney
 
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adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Honestly, written by a Roosters fan,
Wait till your "dominance" on the field dips, and the fans stop bothering to show up, off the field it wont matter.
The fact that manly, wests and cronulla are around allbeit not viable, will show that if your not servicing a part of the map of Sydney (which you're really not)
You're not useful, ony thing that roosters have going for it is that its an inception club, which also wont matter coz norths, newtown and souths had all been dropped, wests and balmain merged, while "easts" have miraculously sidestepped having to merge or been culled, by pretending to be a club for "the city", but bondi isn't the harbour, if anything South Sydney is closer to moore park than bondi. And the City of sydney has 8.5 teams of which all but Easts are needed IN Sydney, which is why i keep saying if they aren't contributing to engage north shore or northern sydney, they aren't nessesary in sydney, and calling themselves "sydney" when they share the city with 8 other teams, is just brutality arrogant, at least be north or east sydney

You're getting hysterical now
None of this rambling is anywhere near approaching reality.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
I was listening to a podcast with an interview with Paul Kennedy from the ABC who wrote a book on the Storm.

In the interview he mentioned that News Ltd need Melbourne to be strong as with the markets of Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne they can attract national sponsors. He said they don't need Perth or Adelaide to attract these national sponsors.

I guess this is why there has been no desire for Perth from the head honchos running our game, yet Brisbane No.2 are coming.

After all thanks to Pete, News Ltd are allover our game again.

interesting that every other professional sport, and I mean every!, has a club in perth except RL. Maybe they are all wrong and nrl is right? Or maybe not lol.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,562
No matter which way you go

Away from a good nursery and corporate support, RL across all clubs need good development programs

The missing link is a full-time professional layer between U20s and National RG

This means players have better opportunities to get developed at a later age 21-25 rather than 16-20 to their full potential

This then creates a bigger pool of high quality players. Who if can't crack it at club A can go to a expansion club

This pathway is very different to the part-time player pathway who need to also work. Thus is where state leagues come in with a FG and RG structure

Adelaide will be a relocated club. Where in a 12 home game season 3 home games could remain as heritage games

If it was Easts, then games like Souths and St George-Illawarra could be initially played in Sydney
 
Messages
12,690
My view on Manly is that if they continue as is, eventually they will fall too far behind to be viable.

Here's the situation.
Eels, Souths, Roosters, Bulldogs are playing out of large, modern facilities. Despite the whinging from the grass hill brigade, they draw more fans on average than suburban grounds. If Parra and Bulldogs are successful, they have potential to average over 20k. Roosters and Souths enjoy strong corporate support on the back of those stadiums, even if the crowds aren't as high. They're guaranteed a couple of 30k+ crowds a year. Sponsorships hold higher value. Facilities are better.

That puts them at an immediate financial advantage to the suburban clubs. And of the suburban clubs, currently Manly sit at the bottom of the pile. #9 in Sydney. Historical success is their only strength, and if they fall further behind financially they might find that difficult to recapture. V'Landys claims that suburban grounds will have their glorious day in the sun again, but I don't believe it. By the time the government comes round to spending hundreds of millions on single tenant council parks, we may find the NRL has a new boss and a new direction. We've heard it all before about Brookvale.

Being the worst-placed of 9 clubs in a city is not a good place to be. It's a big hill to climb every year. What are the options?
In order of least drastic to most...

a) Continue as is.
No significant change of direction.
They maintain their purity and represent their area, but it is hard to see them ever being a serious force again unless the government is swindled into putting $200M into Brookvale and their administration is operating at maximum potential. Falling too far behind for viability in first grade is a risk, especially if the Penns get sick of putting money in.

b) Significant effort to grow the brand.
Launch a takeover of North Sydney's area once and for all. Play 2-3 marquee games a year at the new SFS. Play the NSW Cup team out of Gosford.
This is basically the "administration operating at maximum potential" outcome. They need to shake things up with the NRL, with the Bears, and get some big crowds in a couple of times a year. Basically - become the Roosters. Brookvale still needs a significant upgrade.

c) Northern Eagles: Redux
Relocate first grade team back to Gosford as the Central Coast Sea Eagles. Play NSW Cup out of Brookvale. Promote hard in the Bears territory in between, especially the upper north shore.
You would lose some of the local support but gain more regional support. As a regional city team (Central Coast being one of Australia's largest) you would get more dedicated government and sponsor support, rather than sitting at the bottom of the Sydney pile. The stadium Gosford is a quality facility and with an NRL team full time would have a good chance of future upgrades. Strategically, it would place the club in a stronger geographical position within the NRL, while retaining strong links to northern Sydney. Could even petition for an expansion grant from the NRL.

d) Perth? Adelaide?
Full relocation.
Tbh I don't think the club is a particularly good fit for this option so I won't go on about it. The identity is very tied to the northern beaches, and while Central Coast is a reasonably natural extension, I don't think the club has the brand appeal or the administrative chops to make a success of a cross country leap. And there is value in having a club representing the north-of-sydney region, whether from the Beaches or the Central Coast, so it would be difficult to lose that.


I think... A is likely, unfortunately. B is possible and a good aim to modernise the club. C is the most beneficial for the club and the sport, and has a higher potential ceiling, but is probably too ambitious for a conservative club in a conservative sport.
I agree with this. I too think the club should relocate to Gosford. Ive been saying it for ages. Let the Roosters annex northern Sydney into their catchment and grow their fanbase. The NRL needs a strong Roosters team drawing an average crowd of 25k-30k to its games. Getting the next generation from northern Sydney to follow the Roosters will make this goal achievable.
 
Messages
12,690
interesting that every other professional sport, and I mean every!, has a club in perth except RL. Maybe they are all wrong and nrl is right? Or maybe not lol.
Most of these "professional sports" are barely above the Queensland Cup in terms of financial worth and marketability.

The A-League is propped up by Fox Sports and is lucky to get a game a week on the national broadcaster because its worth is so low the commercial networks don't want a bar of it.

NBL has been on death's door for the best part of 25 years to the point Fox Sports let ESPN and SBS take it off their hands.

At least the Queensland Cup and NSW Cup are on a commercial network.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,966
interesting that every other professional sport, and I mean every!, has a club in perth except RL. Maybe they are all wrong and nrl is right? Or maybe not lol.

Agreed. What it sadly shows is that decisions like expansion are being made with News Ltd influence and not what is in the best interests of the sport.
Under Vlandys we are as tight with News Ltd then we have been for years
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,001
You're getting hysterical now
None of this rambling is anywhere near approaching reality.
Firstly good luck tonight, secondly your arrogant coach is going to start into deep descent, when he realises his current roster is slowly busted, and depth will be an issue like it has been at manly, if it isnt already.
Thirdly if you take your rooster googles off, and actual see what each team in sydney provide to the whole of the comp regarding sydney, you'd see that if the Roosters weren't in sydney, there wouldn't be a vaccum left behind, but take out any other team and there becomes another north sydney waiting to happen, hence why i keep saying the roosters who are financially stable are the best chance to survive a relocation especially to a city of Adelaide, big enough population to triple your fanbase, and double your crowds, but try that same relocation with tigers, sea eagles or sharks, and it just becomes like for like in those metrics, plus leaves a mess behind in sydney where a geographical hole is left.
There might be 8million population in NSW, and 5million in Sydney alone, but thats all shared between 10 clubs, but any team with a chance to be a one state club, should probably go for it, that being Adelaide or Perth
 
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Messages
12,690
But only in their respective states

A-league is on the 10 network isn't it? And netball is on 9, bigbash also on commercial
A-League was on 10Bold, but Ch10 sold the rights to its weekly game to ABC.

Queensland/NSW Cups are only televised into their states, but by being on a commercial network they get a slice of revenue from commercials as they're covering the production costs. They can also promote the sponsors of their clubs, which is against the ABC's charter.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,324
So if barely professional sports can make a go of Perth and Adelaide, it doesn't really reflect well on the NRLs silly arse-backwards excuses does it?
prepare to hear some nonsense about League being a much more taxing game and they can't have long plane flights eating into recovery time....
 

expansionist

Juniors
Messages
827
Im heading down to ADL for the SOO - great facility, and it will be full of corporates. Infact corporate support and facilities sold out almost immediately.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
Agreed. What it sadly shows is that decisions like expansion are being made with News Ltd influence and not what is in the best interests of the sport.
Under Vlandys we are as tight with News Ltd then we have been for years

Any expansion decision would be made by the Commission .News have no say on the Commission.If there is value on expansion the Commission looks into it, not News ,Murdoch or the plebs they employ.
News don't own 50% of the game, than hell.

Ch9 years ago before PVL, stated (by Gyngell)another Brisbane team would be worth $20m pa to TV.Nothing happened then.

If the News was so tight with the NRL admin, they wouldn't be pushing every negative comment they can grasp their grubby hands on.Imagine what the
News gimps would be like if the Commission was at war with News.Check out the Burgess story in the News paper the Australian involving one journo Jessica Halloran .

News Ltd sucks up to every new CEO or exec, then spits him out when it suits.The only time they were into bed with each other was during Gallop's (former News lawyer(reign).He could do not wrong in their eyes.
 
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