The Comic Book Film Thread *** SPOILERS ***

[Different kind of Rabbit]

Watched it last night. Thought it was pretty average tbh. First half of the movie was just plain slow. The scenarios where the different groups went back and found the stones lacked any sort of suspense and by the time the final battle scene came around you knew what was going to happen. In fact, once they killed Thanos in the first 20 minutes, you knew that he was going to exploit the same time loophole that the Avengers did to return for a battle at the end.

Considering the Avengers pushed so hard to return the stones back to the points where they took them so as not to create alternate realities, what the hell do they think vaporizing Thanos, the black order and all of his army will do? Considering none of them will be returned back to the point in time where they came from, surely that has created alternate realities all over the place?

I also didn't like the whole fat sloppy Thor scenario.

Plus the part in the middle of the end battle where Captain Marvel takes possession of the gauntlet and is supported by an all Women back up crew was corny as shit. Seems like they were setting the platform for an all Women spin off movie imo and it was cringe-worthy to say the least.

There were a few high points but for my money, the bad outweighed the good. The fact that the plot relied heavily on Antman who, imo, is one of the worst of the Avengers and his two movies to date are probably in the bottom five, also didn't help.

Anyway, I'll watch it again somewhere down the track and hope that it grows on me but I can't see that happening. At this stage, not even in the top five Marvel movies for mine which is a shame because it could easily have been number one.

 

[Game_Breaker]

Plus the part in the middle of the end battle where Captain Marvel takes possession of the gauntlet and is supported by an all Women back up crew was corny as shit. Seems like they were setting the platform for an all Women spin off movie imo and it was cringe-worthy to say the least.

That was a bit cheesy

It felt like it was just shoehorned in there, plus Captain Marvel didn’t need any help at all

And why was Black Panthers sister fighting? She didn’t fight in the Black Panther movie or Infinity War - she’s the brains of Wakanda

I’m nitpicking now

 

[Frederick]

That was a bit cheesy

It felt like it was just shoehorned in there, plus Captain Marvel didn’t need any help at all

And why was Black Panthers sister fighting? She didn’t fight in the Black Panther movie or Infinity War - she’s the brains of Wakanda

I’m nitpicking now

Shuri did fight in Black Panther and (albeit very briefly) in infinity war

 

[Game_Breaker]

Shuri did fight in Black Panther and (albeit very briefly) in infinity war

I probably forgot
But she’s more brains than brawn, that’s why she wasn’t part of the main battle scene in IW

I can’t help but think she was only included so they can add her to the money shot of the all female crew that “protected” Captain Marvel

I don’t mind they included a scene like that, my gripe is from a writing point of view, I just don’t think it was done right.

 

[Springs09]

Spoiler

They tried to explain this in the movie, changing the past doesnt change the future, it creates an alternate reality that splits off from the main timeline

Spoiler: spoiler

Except Cap went back and changed the past by placing himself in it and turns up in the main timeline at the end. Unless old cap was always there just hiding in Peggy's basement for 70 years.

 

[greenBV4]

Except Cap went back and changed the past by placing himself in it and turns up in the main timeline at the end. Unless old cap was always there just hiding in Peggy's basement for 70 years.

didnt think of this

plot hole I guess

 

[Springs09]

Thought it was great from an entertainment viewpoint - writing and story, not so great.

Time travel is always tricky and leaves so many questions, especially when it's used as much as this film. Leaves the film open to so much nitpicking. But it also opens up new possibilities to explain the introduction of new characters - X-Men.

Spoiler: spoilers

Great:
- Captain America and Mjolnir. Been waiting for that the whole series. Though slightly lessened by Vision picking it up in a throwaway scene in Age of Ultron.
- The final end battle was all pretty cool.
- Captain America going back to Peggy was his perfect ending, though it raises so many questions. Also he never got to defeat a big villain.
- Hawkeye was god damn awesome and close to the best character of the movie.
- Sam continuing as the new Cap.
- Iron Man's role ended his arc perfectly.

Not so Great:
- The hand-waves to the lingering questions at the start. How will Stark get back to Earth? Captain Deus ex Machina turns up out of nowhere. How will Ant-Man get out of the quantum realm? Rat crawls over the controls. Hulk would not emerge last movie, how will Banner get him back? 5 years later.
- Hulk was lame. No real Hulk for 99% of the Infinity War movies was very disappointing. Then got further nerfed at the end so he couldn't do another snap. Wanted a Hulk beat-down on Thanos.
- Captain Marvel. Too OP and so bland. She's too strong so they have to get rid of her for most of the movie and then shows back up out of nowhere at the end? Also when she has the gauntlet and suddenly all the women are there to support her, somehow all showing up coincidentally at the same time, apparently telling all the men to stay back. I'm fine with an all-girl action scene but make it make sense.
- All the time travel scenes seemed to be mainly for fanservice. Some of it was fun but overall took away from the movie at hand.
- The way Gamora was brought back was silly. Quill seems to forget all about the old Gamora, who is still dead.
- I found fat Thor funny, but thought it was a lazy way to reduce his power for the final fight.
- Pepper Potts Iron Woman rubbish.

The Questions:
- So was Cap around through all those years he was frozen now? You can't say he was never recognised throughout all that time. Sharon Carter at least would know about him.
- The Infinity Stones need to be taken back to their original time, so did Mjolnir, but past Thanos and Nebula dying is ok? And 2 Captain Americas? Also Cap went to put the stones back, but how does he turn them back into the Tesseract, Loki's sceptre etc?
- So now time travel is introduced what's stopping anyone going back and getting the stones and changing whatever they want? I imagine there are a whole lot of people in the universe that would want to do that.
- Why didn't old lady Pym experience time fluctuations? She aged the same in the quantum realm.
- Loki escapes now? I'm guessing this is to set up his tv show, but wouldn't this have caused a lot of problems in the past?
- All of Parker's friends are still in high school after 5 years?
- Why didn't Nebula tell the others what they had to do to get the soul stone? She knew as she tries telling Gamora what Thanos had to do to get it.
- How exactly did Thanos and his whole army travel forward in time?
- Cap returns the Soul Stone to Red Skull?
- There's the lingering questions about why characters don't use the individual powers of the stones, especially the time stone which Strange used to trap Dormammu who is far more dangerous than Thanos.
- So who to lead the MCU from now on? With the main characters gone there are only 2 I can think of that are popular enough to do it - Spider-Man and Wolverine. But Spider-Man still seems immature and who knows how recasting Wolverine would go.

 

[Game_Breaker]

Thought it was great from an entertainment viewpoint - writing and story, not so great.

Time travel is always tricky and leaves so many questions, especially when it's used as much as this film. Leaves the film open to so much nitpicking. But it also opens up new possibilities to explain the introduction of new characters - X-Men.

Spoiler: spoilers

Great:
- Captain America and Mjolnir. Been waiting for that the whole series. Though slightly lessened by Vision picking it up in a throwaway scene in Age of Ultron.
- The final end battle was all pretty cool.
- Captain America going back to Peggy was his perfect ending, though it raises so many questions. Also he never got to defeat a big villain.
- Hawkeye was god damn awesome and close to the best character of the movie.
- Sam continuing as the new Cap.
- Iron Man's role ended his arc perfectly.

Not so Great:
- The hand-waves to the lingering questions at the start. How will Stark get back to Earth? Captain Deus ex Machina turns up out of nowhere. How will Ant-Man get out of the quantum realm? Rat crawls over the controls. Hulk would not emerge last movie, how will Banner get him back? 5 years later.
- Hulk was lame. No real Hulk for 99% of the Infinity War movies was very disappointing. Then got further nerfed at the end so he couldn't do another snap. Wanted a Hulk beat-down on Thanos.
- Captain Marvel. Too OP and so bland. She's too strong so they have to get rid of her for most of the movie and then shows back up out of nowhere at the end? Also when she has the gauntlet and suddenly all the women are there to support her, somehow all showing up coincidentally at the same time, apparently telling all the men to stay back. I'm fine with an all-girl action scene but make it make sense.
- All the time travel scenes seemed to be mainly for fanservice. Some of it was fun but overall took away from the movie at hand.
- The way Gamora was brought back was silly. Quill seems to forget all about the old Gamora, who is still dead.
- I found fat Thor funny, but thought it was a lazy way to reduce his power for the final fight.
- Pepper Potts Iron Woman rubbish.

The Questions:
- So was Cap around through all those years he was frozen now? You can't say he was never recognised throughout all that time. Sharon Carter at least would know about him.
- The Infinity Stones need to be taken back to their original time, so did Mjolnir, but past Thanos and Nebula dying is ok? And 2 Captain Americas? Also Cap went to put the stones back, but how does he turn them back into the Tesseract, Loki's sceptre etc?
- So now time travel is introduced what's stopping anyone going back and getting the stones and changing whatever they want? I imagine there are a whole lot of people in the universe that would want to do that.
- Why didn't old lady Pym experience time fluctuations? She aged the same in the quantum realm.
- Loki escapes now? I'm guessing this is to set up his tv show, but wouldn't this have caused a lot of problems in the past?
- All of Parker's friends are still in high school after 5 years?
- Why didn't Nebula tell the others what they had to do to get the soul stone? She knew as she tries telling Gamora what Thanos had to do to get it.
- How exactly did Thanos and his whole army travel forward in time?
- Cap returns the Soul Stone to Red Skull?
- There's the lingering questions about why characters don't use the individual powers of the stones, especially the time stone which Strange used to trap Dormammu who is far more dangerous than Thanos.
- So who to lead the MCU from now on? With the main characters gone there are only 2 I can think of that are popular enough to do it - Spider-Man and Wolverine. But Spider-Man still seems immature and who knows how recasting Wolverine would go.

Yep

I imagine the Russo’s will try and “explain” everything in an interview, but if it can’t be explained in the movie then that’s just lazy writing

 

[Different kind of Rabbit]

Thought it was great from an entertainment viewpoint - writing and story, not so great.

This was the thing that probably pissed me off the most tbh. They've had 11 years and God only knows what kind of massive budget to work on this set of films and yet the story was full of flaws.

Yes, I understand that we're talking about a fantasy movie with talking Aliens and magic and all sorts of fantasy elements and so it seems odd to complain about the story being full of inaccuracies and plot holes but the makers of this movie had every possible opportunity to get all this right and they fluffed it.

I mean, every movie has tiny errors in it... Someone is wearing a wrist watch in one scene and not in the next or you can see the reflection of a camera guy in a mirror and you can forgive that sort of stuff. Sometimes, it even becomes part of pop culture like the scene in one of the original Star Wars movies where a stormtrooper bangs his head on an archway.

However, half way through this movie it sets out its own rules on going back in time and messing with the continuum and then it went and broke all of them an hour or so later and we are supposed to just overlook that? Besides this, we went through this long and convoluted process where everyone only had so many Pym particles and could only go back in time once each when really, only one of them needed to go back once, grab the time stone and hey presto you have control over all of time... It just seemed rushed and thrown together without too much thought...

 

[Game_Breaker]

Also, how did Thanos and his whole army travel through time with no Pym particles?

They made it a rule, but Nebula just pressed a few buttons and viola!

 

[Different kind of Rabbit]

Also, how did Thanos and his whole army travel through time with no Pym particles?

They made it a rule, but Nebula just pressed a few buttons and viola!

Yeah, I was wondering this at the time. Especially since they mentioned that Thanos broke the portal when he came through.... So does that mean he summoned his army and the black order to turn up once he came through the portal? That's tough because the black order all died in Infinity War so he must have brought them through with him somehow? Idk, didn't make sense.

 

[Springs09]

Reading more about it and now I'm thinking how much Strange could have reversed using the time stone at the end the same way Thanos used it to restore Vision in Infinity War.

Also thinking about the utter waste of Thanos' excellent character development in Infinity War. That's what made him so good. In this, without having experienced any of that journey, he is for the most part just a big brute who wants to kill everyone.

Yes, I understand that we're talking about a fantasy movie with talking Aliens and magic and all sorts of fantasy elements and so it seems odd to complain about the story being full of inaccuracies and plot holes but the makers of this movie had every possible opportunity to get all this right and they fluffed it.

However, half way through this movie it sets out its own rules on going back in time and messing with the continuum and then it went and broke all of them an hour or so later and we are supposed to just overlook that? Besides this, we went through this long and convoluted process where everyone only had so many Pym particles and could only go back in time once each when really, only one of them needed to go back once, grab the time stone and hey presto you have control over all of time... It just seemed rushed and thrown together without too much thought...

No matter how fantastical the subject, every story has to have internal consistency to work. If a story has established flying pink giraffes, then fine, but the giraffes can't suddenly be blue the next scene and back to pink without explanation.

I think Endgame relied too much on the cool factor. The first 2/3rds were almost pure fanservice going back to old movies and seeing so many cameos, while the last 1/3rd was the classic 'awesome' all-out battle. It's fun to see but for me a well-crafted story is always preferable and more memorable.

 

[Game_Breaker]

People may accuse us of nitpicking, but the movie is just being judged by the rules they made

It’s still entertaining

 

[shiznit]

People may accuse us of nitpicking, but the movie is just being judged by the rules they made

It’s still entertaining

I think you guys raise really valid points... I just ignored common sense and accepted the premise of the story to enjoy the film.

Me and my Mrs call it ‘Fast & The Furiousing’ it.

I fast & the furioused the shit out of this film...

 

[Frederick]

Yeah, I was wondering this at the time. Especially since they mentioned that Thanos broke the portal when he came through.... So does that mean he summoned his army and the black order to turn up once he came through the portal? That's tough because the black order all died in Infinity War so he must have brought them through with him somehow? Idk, didn't make sense.

When they captured nebula and discovered her wrist band thingy and the Pym particles it probably stands to reason that they would have reverse engineered/duplicated the technology somehow to allow them to travel through the portal. Regarding their forces, his ship is f**king enormous so we're they all on his ship when he came through the portal?

 

[Timbo]

There is one thing that bothered me a bit:

Spoiler

Thor clearly has PTSD the whole way through this film. There was an opportunity to explore what happens to a superhero if they have a breakdown (for those watching Doom Patrol there is an excellent episode that dives deep into this concept) but instead of that, they just make a few Big Lebowski jokes and have him chat to his mother to get cured. Could’ve done a lot more.

 

[Game_Breaker]

There is one thing that bothered me a bit:

Spoiler

Thor clearly has PTSD the whole way through this film. There was an opportunity to explore what happens to a superhero if they have a breakdown (for those watching Doom Patrol there is an excellent episode that dives deep into this concept) but instead of that, they just make a few Big Lebowski jokes and have him chat to his mother to get cured. Could’ve done a lot more.

Iron Man 3 dives into that
In this movie they show us how Cap deals with it better than most (that’s when one of the Russos make a cameo)

I think you guys raise really valid points... I just ignored common sense and accepted the premise of the story to enjoy the film.

Me and my Mrs call it ‘Fast & The Furiousing’ it.

I fast & the furioused the shit out of this film...

At the time, I did that.

Just accept it as a popcorn movie, but even the F&F movies didn’t have these massive plot holes

 

[Springs09]

When they captured nebula and discovered her wrist band thingy and the Pym particles it probably stands to reason that they would have reverse engineered/duplicated the technology somehow to allow them to travel through the portal. Regarding their forces, his ship is f**king enormous so we're they all on his ship when he came through the portal?

Okay but then that raises the question of why Stark couldn't do it when he was the one to discover time travel.

 

[Game_Breaker]

The elevator scene was in Winter Soldier right?

Why did it happen when they went back in time? They jumped back during the first Avengers movie, Winter Soldier occurred after that

 

[Springs09]

I think you guys raise really valid points... I just ignored common sense and accepted the premise of the story to enjoy the film.

Me and my Mrs call it ‘Fast & The Furiousing’ it.

I fast & the furioused the shit out of this film...

I do that with every movie. I even enjoy really bad movies.

But story is my big thing, and I enjoy analysing stories and doing so increases my overall enjoyment of a movie. The majority of superhero comics have the same problems this movie had.

The elevator scene was in Winter Soldier right?

Why did it happen when they went back in time? They jumped back during the first Avengers movie, Winter Soldier occurred after that

It wasn't that scene. It was just a reference to it. For some reason everyone was in an elevator in the same positions.