The Forbidden Game-insightful book on what has & can happen

[madunit]

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Glad you have highlighted in bold what we agree on.

I'm glad you finally understand one of my posts.

It's not a mistake to highlight and explore this very real repression of our game.

Similarly, it is a mistake to ignore any intentional negative attacks RL has had on RU, which as I have stated, have happened.

You have seen many examples brought up on this thread.
I'm sure their are many more.

And it must be verified which were acts of retalliation and which were acts of aggression, as there is a difference.

RU has many "friends in high places" and this is directly associated and related to the private school bias toward RU in many affluent schools.

That has less to do with friends in high places and more to do with tradition in most cases.

You may not agree but this is where this untoward "repression " of RL from people in high administrative/government positions is emanating from.

I've never stated that I disagreed with any such argument. Why are you so insistent on trying to create an argument that doesn't exist, as well as trying to paint me as some sort of idiot or Union sympathiser?

So lets explore and discuss this "repression" as it is negatively affecting RL to this day. It's reality and explains many things such as how an antiquated form of rugby(RU) is deemed to be more "international" than a faster, more action packed version of rugby in RL.

RL is just as antiquated in how it is managed and run around the world. Furthermore, I have NEVER denied that repression had and is taking place. Again, you are arguing with yourself.

It's well worth the discussion and exploration. This thread has witnessed some very real examples of repression which otherwise would never have been discussed or sighted by RL supporters and the trolls from other sports.

examples from both sides, most of which you had no idea about and some which you blatantly refused to accept, but didn't stop you from abusing and insulting people and carrying on in your condescending nonsense.

The fact that it has taken over 200 posts for you to realise what was being said at the start of the thread shows how under prepared you are, intellectually, to seriously and properly discuss any aspects of this subject with any maturity whatsoever.

For such a complex and diverse topic such as this that has many different forms over many decades in many countries, you would need (among many other things) to have:
*An open mind
*A willingness to research both sides of the issue
*The ability to determine which acts by one code against another are forms of retalliation, defence or attacks, as each are all very different and have different causes and effects.

As passionate as you may be on the topic from a RL perspective, based on your posts in this thread, you don't have any of these.

I'm tired of trying to help you look at the bigger picture. Your ignorance and stubbornness is counter-productive and your insults certainly don't help your cause.

I'm done.

 

[madunit]

We shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves over things we can not change from 70 years ago, we should be doing all we can to raise the profile of the French game so it can become a viable comp on its own again.

You know what the ARLC should put together that would be beneficial to RL as a whole and wouldn't really cost that much? (imo I have no idea of the cost)

Offer a Language course at Tafe/Uni whatever that involves becoming a RL sports development Officer, imagine some of the places you could be sent to teach RL, get them DOs out there.

A simple yet effective and old hand approach would work well.

Rugby League tours.

A tour of France by International sides, would only have to be 6-8 games (including tests) would do a world of good.

Get France out touring as well.

Year 1 - Australia tours France
Year 2 - NZ Tours France
Year 3 - France tours Aus, NZ, PNG, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, USA, etc - 20 game tour including tests
Year 4 - World Cup

This would help strengthen the French side and would help to grow interest in the game.

As a modern example of the effectiveness of tours, look at the Lions tour to Aus this year. No one really gives a shit about Rugby Union but the Lions tour created a massive amount of interest (for RU standards in Aus).

Tours still have the ability to generate massive interest.

 

[magpie4ever]

A simple yet effective and old hand approach would work well.

Rugby League tours.

A tour of France by International sides, would only have to be 6-8 games (including tests) would do a world of good.

Get France out touring as well.

Year 1 - Australia tours France
Year 2 - NZ Tours France
Year 3 - France tours Aus, NZ, PNG, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, USA, etc - 20 game tour including tests
Year 4 - World Cup

This would help strengthen the French side and would help to grow interest in the game.

As a modern example of the effectiveness of tours, look at the Lions tour to Aus this year. No one really gives a shit about Rugby Union but the Lions tour created a massive amount of interest (for RU standards in Aus).

Tours still have the ability to generate massive interest.

Unfortunately, the conversion of European Rugby League to a summer sport (our winter) has not helped the international game. The great tours of the Kangaroos and the British Lions, which no longer take place, have diluted the international game.

 

[LJC]

I'm glad you finally understand one of my posts.

Similarly, it is a mistake to ignore any intentional negative attacks RL has had on RU, which as I have stated, have happened.

And it must be verified which were acts of retalliation and which were acts of aggression, as there is a difference.

That has less to do with friends in high places and more to do with tradition in most cases.

I've never stated that I disagreed with any such argument. Why are you so insistent on trying to create an argument that doesn't exist, as well as trying to paint me as some sort of idiot or Union sympathiser?
RL is just as antiquated in how it is managed and run around the world. Furthermore, I have NEVER denied that repression had and is taking place. Again, you are arguing with yourself.

examples from both sides, most of which you had no idea about and some which you blatantly refused to accept, but didn't stop you from abusing and insulting people and carrying on in your condescending nonsense.

The fact that it has taken over 200 posts for you to realise what was being said at the start of the thread shows how under prepared you are, intellectually, to seriously and properly discuss any aspects of this subject with any maturity whatsoever.

For such a complex and diverse topic such as this that has many different forms over many decades in many countries, you would need (among many other things) to have:
*An open mind
*A willingness to research both sides of the issue
*The ability to determine which acts by one code against another are forms of retalliation, defence or attacks, as each are all very different and have different causes and effects.

As passionate as you may be on the topic from a RL perspective, based on your posts in this thread, you don't have any of these.

I'm tired of trying to help you look at the bigger picture. Your ignorance and stubbornness is counter-productive and your insults certainly don't help your cause.

I'm done.

You are done!

How dare you try to persuade me into some informant for another code or divert attention from what is essentially a real concern for RL not RU!!?

I am entitled to discuss this very relevant and real problem that has been and is effecting rugby league. You are deflecting the major thrust of these points (RL repression from RU biased officials in high places everywhere) and the "ignorance" of this very real problem.

Some very real examples have been bought up in this thread about the repressive tactics of RU people in various places around the world.

This is essentially what we are trying to discuss. You may throw in your "balance" argument as much as you want! But lets get to the "nitty gritty" stuff which is detrimentally affecting a sport namely rugby league to the advantage of another sport namely rugby union.

Please don't lecture me on what I am supposed to state in your eyes.

 

[madunit]

You are done!

How dare you try to persuade me into some informant for another code or divert attention from what is essentially a real concern for RL not RU!!?

I'm not trying to do that at all.

I am entitled to discuss this very relevant and real problem that has been and is effecting rugby league. You are deflecting the major thrust of these points (RL repression from RU biased officials in high places everywhere) and the "ignorance" of this very real problem.

No. I'm educating you on how to properly have an intelligent and knowledgeable discussion.

Some very real examples have been bought up in this thread about the repressive tactics of RU people in various places around the world.

all of which I have no issue with and never have.

This is essentially what we are trying to discuss. You may throw in your "balance" argument as much as you want! But lets get to the "nitty gritty" stuff which is detrimentally affecting a sport namely rugby league to the advantage of another sport namely rugby union.

Please don't lecture me on what I am supposed to state in your eyes.

you see, your blindingly stupid and immature behaviour in this discussion means that no one will take you seriously.

Furthermore, it's attitudes like yours that lead to people denying the holocaust. "Lets ignore all the facts and just focus on the bits we want to. Ignore the cause and effect, it doesn't suit our agenda"

Thanks for proving my view of you correct.

 

[Thomas]

Wow. LJC went full genius, didn't he?

 

[LJC]

Wow. LJC went full genius, didn't he?

If you rate letting someone try to press their point of view as a worthwhile inclusion into someone else's point of view then call me a genius!
This MU character is hell bent on deflecting a real issue that is detrimentally affecting RL all over the world and I happen to be forwarding my point of view.
Quite simply their is one code massively effected by lobbyist and authorities consistently on a worldwide basis, that being RL, and the other code ,RU , has been unfairly and deceitfully benefitting from this repression.

I stand by this viewpoint and don't appreciate being preached to someone whom thinks they are balanced in their comments, and change their tact in deflecting the core issue which is international repression of the sport of rugby league. Let's be clear no other football code has had to endure the bias and repression that RL has witnessed.

A mate of mine questioned MU's tact and wondered why he chose to put in such a comment, especially on a RL site. MU suggests 'balance' but shouldn't we be dealing with the very real and extensive repression the game of RL is dealing with to this day?

After all this is a RL site isn't it, although I have heard otherwise from other fans on other sites?

 

[magpie4ever]

If you rate letting someone try to press their point of view as a worthwhile inclusion into someone else's point of view then call me a genius!
This MU character is hell bent on deflecting a real issue that is detrimentally affecting RL all over the world and I happen to be forwarding my point of view.
Quite simply their is one code massively effected by lobbyist and authorities consistently on a worldwide basis, that being RL, and the other code ,RU , has been unfairly and deceitfully benefitting from this repression.

I stand by this viewpoint and don't appreciate being preached to someone whom thinks they are balanced in their comments, and change their tact in deflecting the core issue which is international repression of the sport of rugby league. Let's be clear no other football code has had to endure the bias and repression that RL has witnessed.

A mate of mine questioned MU's tact and wondered why he chose to put in such a comment, especially on a RL site. MU suggests 'balance' but shouldn't we be dealing with the very real and extensive repression the game of RL is dealing with to this day?

After all this is a RL site isn't it, although I have heard otherwise from other fans on other sites.

Can I suggest you seek counselling, this is obviously an obsession for you. You're preaching to the converted.

 

[madunit]

If you rate letting someone try to press their point of view as a worthwhile inclusion into someone else's point of view then call me a genius!
This MU character is hell bent on deflecting a real issue that is detrimentally affecting RL all over the world and I happen to be forwarding my point of view.
Quite simply their is one code massively effected by lobbyist and authorities consistently on a worldwide basis, that being RL, and the other code ,RU , has been unfairly and deceitfully benefitting from this repression.

I stand by this viewpoint and don't appreciate being preached to someone whom thinks they are balanced in their comments, and change their tact in deflecting the core issue which is international repression of the sport of rugby league. Let's be clear no other football code has had to endure the bias and repression that RL has witnessed.

A mate of mine questioned MU's tact and wondered why he chose to put in such a comment, especially on a RL site. MU suggests 'balance' but shouldn't we be dealing with the very real and extensive repression the game of RL is dealing with to this day?

After all this is a RL site isn't it, although I have heard otherwise from other fans on other sites?

Lol. You made claims. I proved them wrong with facts. You called me an apologist for union. I proved where my allegiances laid upon your request, you disregarded them. You wanted to have a serious discussion about this very real and important issue, yet you restrict yourself from understanding the full story and somehow now, i'm forcing some belief on you.

If i'm guilty of anything, its trying to educate you.

Sone people prefer to remain stupid and blind. I guess it makes it easier for you to peddle your views.

 

[THE CHAMP]

In regards to this behaviour in Australia its just a crock of absolute rubbish.
There are plenty of private and public schools that only play RL and plenty that only play RU.
There are no conspiracy theories here at all.
I have been involved in RU and RL administration, strictly RL now

It is clear judging by your post which education system you came through and the horrible effects that system has had on your intelligence.

 

[THE CHAMP]

By the way is madunit a toff?

 

[madunit]

no.

Are you?

 

[LJC]

Can I suggest you seek counselling, this is obviously an obsession for you. You're preaching to the converted.

Not as much an obsession but a real concern that this repression is very real and very extensive. Yet we as fans of the game are not articulating and representing this issue to the extent it deserves.

It is very real bias against a sport and should be well and truly a major discussion point for fans of the game and the general public at large. The vast majority of repressive tactics has and is being experienced by RL people and the sport. The extent of any "repressive" tactics used against RU is miniscule compared to the suffering experienced by RL around the world.

This is why we should really explore and expose this "crime" against a great sport!

 

[magpie4ever]

Not as much an obsession but a real concern that this repression is very real and very extensive. Yet we as fans of the game are not articulating and representing this issue to the extent it deserves.

It is very real bias against a sport and should be well and truly a major discussion point for fans of the game and the general public at large. The vast majority of repressive tactics had been experienced by RL people and the sport.

This is where we should really explore and expose this "crime" against a great sport!

Put together a petition, sent it to the NRL and IRLB demanding action. I will sign it.

 

[madunit]

The extent of any "repressive" tactics used against RU is miniscule compared to the suffering experienced by RL around the world.

This is why we should really explore and expose this "crime" against a great sport!

I GOT THROUGH TO HIM!!!

this is a major victory for you.

Well done.

It's not the size of the repression that matters.

Its the act itself.

RU, as a sport, didn't ban RL in France. A rogue, discredited RU body in France that had been removed from the International game by the sport, sided with a pro-NAZI caretaker government to see about the demise of RL for its own, local, benefit, not the benefit of RU as a whole. As the book quite extensively reveals, RU was run by a lot of businessmen whose involvement in the game was to make money for themselves. It was called shamatuerism for a reason. They bought successful players to bring in investors. Killing RL meant more quality players available for their 'franchises'

the International RU body had no involvement whatsoever.

Nearly every other act of repression by RU against RL ever since then, and prior to then, have been done by an officially recognised member of the sport. These are worth quite an open debate and discussion.

Hence why the France example is not the norm, nor should it be considered as anything other than isolated and the utmost in extreme.

Lets hope it doesn't take another 200 odd posts for this clear and obvious fact to sink in.

 

[LJC]

I GOT THROUGH TO HIM!!!

this is a major victory for you.

Well done.

It's not the size of the repression that matters.

Its the act itself.

RU, as a sport, didn't ban RL in France. A rogue, discredited RU body in France that had been removed from the International game by the sport, sided with a pro-NAZI caretaker government to see about the demise of RL for its own, local, benefit, not the benefit of RU as a whole. As the book quite extensively reveals, RU was run by a lot of businessmen whose involvement in the game was to make money for themselves. It was called shamatuerism for a reason. They bought successful players to bring in investors. Killing RL meant more quality players available for their 'franchises'

the International RU body had no involvement whatsoever.

Nearly every other act of repression by RU against RL ever since then, and prior to then, have been done by an officially recognised member of the sport. These are worth quite an open debate and discussion.

Hence why the France example is not the norm, nor should it be considered as anything other than isolated and the utmost in extreme.

Lets hope it doesn't take another 200 odd posts for this clear and obvious fact to sink in.

You are kidding!

The size of the repression is extremely relevant as RL is the main sufferer!

So with your logic, you are quite content to see RL being trod in all places and continue with this undeniable repression of the game!

 

[madunit]

You are kidding!

No.

The size of the repression is extremely relevant as RL is the main sufferer!

so you are arguing that killing 4 people with a grenade for no reason is a good deed because its not as bad as killing 4 million with a nuke. Both are bad. The act itself is the issue, not the size of it. The size and frequency are important factors but nowhere near as important as the intent to commit the act in the first place. How you are arguing against that is insane.

So with your logic, you are quite content to see RL being trod in all places and continue with this undeniable repression of the game!

that is not even close to my logic in any way.

You've regressed back to having no comprehension or understanding.

And you were showing so much promise.

 

[LJC]

No.

so you are arguing that killing 4 people with a grenade for no reason is a good deed because its not as bad as killing 4 million with a nuke. Both are bad. The act itself is the issue, not the size of it. The size and frequency are important factors but nowhere near as important as the intent to commit the act in the first place. How you are arguing against that is insane.


that is not even close to my logic in any way.

You've regressed back to having no comprehension or understanding.

And you were showing so much promise.

I put it to you MU:

"Which code is suffering the most out of the repressive tactics being used both in the past and present? "

From my point of view and other contributors in this thread it is clearly RL. To turn a blind eye to such repression is shear folly and denying the obvious! And your "blind eye" reflects an apathy that is quite amazing given that you are a RL fan! Their is no "balance" in your argument when you fully know(we hope?) that the repression against RL is widespread and continuing.

The extent of repression is very relevant and very real. It is one of the major reasons why RL is not well established on a world stage as compared to the very antiquated and slower form of rugby(RU) that has "right of way"!

 

[Perth Red]

I have yet to hear any RL repression towards RU in the last 50 years. RU happening right now in some countries. They have raped and pillaged RL on a scale not seen in any code in France and the repression continues to this day.

is killing 4 people as "bad" as killing 4million?

Is poaching twenty union players as "bad" as the Vichy affair?

Is encouraging some catholic schools to take up RL as "bad" as banning union players for life from returning if they try league for one game?

Everything is relative

 

[magpie4ever]

I have yet to hear any RL repression towards RU in the last 50 years. RU happening right now in some countries. They have raped and pillaged RL on a scale not seen in any code in France and the repression continues to this day.

is killing 4 people as "bad" as killing 4million?

Is poaching twenty union players as "bad" as the Vichy affair?

Is encouraging some catholic schools to take up RL as "bad" as banning union players for life from returning if they try league for one game?

Everything is relative

Someone who is highly motivated by these repressions; get a bloody petition going and send it to the NRL (ARLC) and IRLB to take up these matters.

But stop preaching to the converted.