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The Forbidden Game-insightful book on what has & can happen

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
I put it to you MU:

"Which code is suffering the most out of the repressive tactics being used both in the past and present? "
i have answered this several times. And every time i've clearly said RL.

From my point of view and other contributors in tsshis thread it is clearly RL. To turn a blind eye to such repression is shear folly and denying the obvious! And your "blind eye" reflects an apathy that is quite amazing given that you are a RL fan! Their is no "balance" in your argument when you fully know(we hope?) that the repression against RL is widespread and continuing.
i have & will NEVER turn a blind eye to it. I provided further examples of it you idiot. You keep trying to paint me as a RL hater & everytime you make a bigger idiot of yourself. All i've said is that to have a serious discussion about something you must allow yourself to know both sides of the story. Its imperative & its common f**king sense!

The extent of repression is very relevant and very real. It is one of the major reasons why RL is not well established on a world stage as compared to the very antiquated and slower form of rugby(RU) that has "right of way"!
you keep saying this and i keep telling you that i agree with it.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
I have yet to hear any RL repression towards RU in the last 50 years. RU happening right now in some countries. They have raped and pillaged RL on a scale not seen in any code in France and the repression continues to this day.

is killing 4 people as "bad" as killing 4million?

Is poaching twenty union players as "bad" as the Vichy affair?

Is encouraging some catholic schools to take up RL as "bad" as banning union players for life from returning if they try league for one game?

Everything is relative
wouldn't you agree that all of those issues are wrong & in poor spirit?

which is my point.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,867
To some degree. Difference again though is non of the actions were done to have a broader scale impact on union. Eg catholic schools were not told they HAVE to play RL and can not play RU, RU players moving to league have never Ben told that if they moved back they would be banned from league for life.

All games do what they can to prosper, good business, but to do it with explicit intent of damaging another code is the domain of RU only, IMO.

It's why union is the only sport in the world I genuinely detest and take great joy when misfortune befalls it.
 

Woods99

Juniors
Messages
908
To some degree. Difference again though is non of the actions were done to have a broader scale impact on union. Eg catholic schools were not told they HAVE to play RL and can not play RU, RU players moving to league have never Ben told that if they moved back they would be banned from league for life.

All games do what they can to prosper, good business, but to do it with explicit intent of damaging another code is the domain of RU only, IMO.

It's why union is the only sport in the world I genuinely detest and take great joy when misfortune befalls it.

So when the AFL tries to claim Birchgrove Oval for their game, or when Andrew Demetriou says that "everybody knows that September is when we have our finals series" when the question of clashing dates comes up, that is not explicit enough for you?

As for the bans placed on rugby union players who played rugby league, again, for the zillionth time, that was because rugby union was amateur. They would have been banned for playing any professional sport, any at all.

The Catholic schools system as a whole took up rugby league, it was only the elite Catholic schools that stayed with rugby union. Given that Catholic schools sporting competitions were centrally organised, how would it have been possible for any of those schools to continue playing rugby union? (Incidentally, I have never heard any rah rahs complain about not having access to those Catholic schools. If they want to play rugby league, fair enough. And surely vice versa when schools want to play rugby union).

You know, and I know, that absolutely nothing will be done to right these supposed wrongs. That's partly because most of them happened so long ago, partly because what happens today is either because of individual political and bureaucratic decisions which no outsiders can influence, and partly because neither the ARL, the RLIF, RLEF, etc etc could give a toss about it.

If anything that is happening is illegal in the countries in which it is happening, then surely the courts are the place to seek redress. My guess is that nothing illegal is happening, that is another reason why nothing will happend. Nothing at all.
 

LJC

Juniors
Messages
584
So when the AFL tries to claim Birchgrove Oval for their game, or when Andrew Demetriou says that "everybody knows that September is when we have our finals series" when the question of clashing dates comes up, that is not explicit enough for you?

As for the bans placed on rugby union players who played rugby league, again, for the zillionth time, that was because rugby union was amateur. They would have been banned for playing any professional sport, any at all.

The Catholic schools system as a whole took up rugby league, it was only the elite Catholic schools that stayed with rugby union. Given that Catholic schools sporting competitions were centrally organised, how would it have been possible for any of those schools to continue playing rugby union? (Incidentally, I have never heard any rah rahs complain about not having access to those Catholic schools. If they want to play rugby league, fair enough. And surely vice versa when schools want to play rugby union).

You know, and I know, that absolutely nothing will be done to right these supposed wrongs. That's partly because most of them happened so long ago, partly because what happens today is either because of individual political and bureaucratic decisions which no outsiders can influence, and partly because neither the ARL, the RLIF, RLEF, etc etc could give a toss about it.

If anything that is happening is illegal in the countries in which it is happening, then surely the courts are the place to seek redress. My guess is that nothing illegal is happening, that is another reason why nothing will happend. Nothing at all.


Wonder if this widespread repression was suffered by RU then what would happen?

Given that the "antiquated and less attractive" code of rugby(RU) has establishment support courtesy of their code being entrenched in the private school system and the upper echelons of society then I think not! The "friends in high places" for RU is a very relevant and pertinent aspect of what is happening against RL around the world.

I keep coming back to the strange outcome that a more attractive form of rugby(RL) is repressed to the advantage of RU and it is these establishment "friends" that are allowing this unfair repression of a sport to occur. The repression of RL is logical if we acknowledge that the upper echelons of society(mostly private school educated) are making the decisions to limit and cut off of RL at every step. If it were the reverse, RU would not be about! as it is code well passed its "used by date" as a sport worthy of genuine popular market appeal.

Such sports do harness popular support due to "establishment" support ie Gridiron in the USA and RU(worldwide)These are obviously very real examples of football codes being propagated by those in power.

If it were purely based on sporting merit and attractiveness RL would win this popular support battle hands down but as we can see powers beyond RLs control are at play and this great game of ours has to negotiate and struggle through this. I refer to the popularity of soccer which I believe is just as "democratic" to play as a sport and harnesses popular general public support. This code has not had to deal with the subversive tactics suffered by RL. I am a fan of both codes.(soccer & RL)

The repression of RL is very unfair and should be acknowledged on a much greater scale.

I believe the general public need to know this well hidden repression suffered by RL but we have many obstacles not allowing this type of information to be known. This happens with many things and I reason: "why not let people know about RLs struggle?"

It's very real and relevant to understanding the issues facing our great sport and its general perception as a world sport. The amount of repression suffered by RL is staggering if compared to other football codes around the world.
 
Last edited:

magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
Wonder if this widespread repression was suffered by RU then what would happen?

Given that the "antiquated and less attractive" code of rugby(RU) has establishment support courtesy of their code being entrenched in the private school system and theupper echelons of society then I think not! The "friends in high places" for RU is a very relevant and pertinent aspect of what is happening against RL around the world.

I keep coming back to the strange outcome that a more attractive form of rugby(RL) is repressed to the advantage of RU and it is these establishment "friends" that are allowing this unfair repression of a sport to occur. The repression of RL is logical if we acknowledge that the upper echelons of society(mostly private school educated) are making the decisions to limit and cut off of RL at every step. If it were the reverse, RU would not be about! as it is code well passed its "used by date" as a sport worthy of genuine popular market appeal.

Such sports do harness popular support due to "establishment" support ie Gridiron in the USA and RU(worldwide)These are obviously very real examples of football codes being propagated by those in power.

If it were purely based on sporting merit and attractiveness RL would win this popular support battle hands down but as we can see powers beyond RLs control are at play and this great game of ours has to negotiate and struggle through this. I refer to the popularity of soccer which I believe is just as "democratic" to play as a sport and harnesses popular general public support. This code has not had to deal with the subversive tactics suffered by RL. I am a fan of both codes.(soccer & RL)

The repression of RL is very unfair and should be acknowledged on a much greater scale.

I believe the general public need to know this well hidden repression suffered by RL but we have many obstacles not allowing this type of information to be known. This happens with many things and I reason: "why not let people know about RLs struggle?"

It's very real and relevant to understanding the issues facing our great sport and its general perception as a world sport. The amount of repression suffered by RL is staggering if compared to other football codes around the world.

To be honest, I don't believe League is a form of rugby; any more.

The underlining original premise behind rugby (both, union and league) was competition of the obtaining the ball at the end of each play to attack (rucks, mauls - union, scrums - originally both, the play the ball - league) the opposition.

The modern game of league doesn't have that competition with regard to obtaining the ball. Therefore, league is more aligned to a hyrid form of girdiron.

To me, the modern game of league is therefore a hyrid game of girdiron (to carry the ball forward for a set number of plays) and union (idefinitied benefits of strategically kicking to areas on the field of play).
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
Wonder if this widespread repression was suffered by RU then what would happen?

Given that the "antiquated and less attractive" code of rugby(RU) has establishment support courtesy of their code being entrenched in the private school system and the upper echelons of society then I think not! The "friends in high places" for RU is a very relevant and pertinent aspect of what is happening against RL around the world.

I keep coming back to the strange outcome that a more attractive form of rugby(RL) is repressed to the advantage of RU and it is these establishment "friends" that are allowing this unfair repression of a sport to occur. The repression of RL is logical if we acknowledge that the upper echelons of society(mostly private school educated) are making the decisions to limit and cut off of RL at every step. If it were the reverse, RU would not be about! as it is code well passed its "used by date" as a sport worthy of genuine popular market appeal.

Such sports do harness popular support due to "establishment" support ie Gridiron in the USA and RU(worldwide)These are obviously very real examples of football codes being propagated by those in power.

If it were purely based on sporting merit and attractiveness RL would win this popular support battle hands down but as we can see powers beyond RLs control are at play and this great game of ours has to negotiate and struggle through this. I refer to the popularity of soccer which I believe is just as "democratic" to play as a sport and harnesses popular general public support. This code has not had to deal with the subversive tactics suffered by RL. I am a fan of both codes.(soccer & RL)

The repression of RL is very unfair and should be acknowledged on a much greater scale.

I believe the general public need to know this well hidden repression suffered by RL but we have many obstacles not allowing this type of information to be known. This happens with many things and I reason: "why not let people know about RLs struggle?"

It's very real and relevant to understanding the issues facing our great sport and its general perception as a world sport. The amount of repression suffered by RL is staggering if compared to other football codes around the world.

What a load of twaddle... You still haven't answered.. who are these "friends in high places"?? come on supply names if you are so sure they exist.
 
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Teddyboy

First Grade
Messages
6,573
To be honest, I don't believe League is a form of rugby; any more.

The underlining original premise behind rugby (both, union and league) was competition of the obtaining the ball at the end of each play to attack (rucks, mauls - union, scrums - originally both, the play the ball - league) the opposition.

The modern game of league doesn't have that competition with regard to obtaining the ball. Therefore, league is more aligned to a hyrid form of girdiron.

To me, the modern game of league is therefore a hyrid game of girdiron (to carry the ball forward for a set number of plays) and union (idefinitied benefits of strategically kicking to areas on the field of play).

Hybrid...:)
 

Knownothing

Juniors
Messages
764
What a load of twaddle... You still haven't answered.. who are these "friends in high places"?? come on supply names if you are so sure they exist.


Let's look for some evidence, here, in Australia. After all, that is the place that most of us know something about.


I assume that the "friends in high places" are either the IRB, or people working in collaboration with the IRB.


Australia is probably the country in the world where rugby union is under more competitive pressure (not only from rugby league, of course) than any other developed country. To lose Australia as a strong rugby union competitor would be a devastating blow to the game, particularly here in the Asia Pacific. So surely the friends in high places would be working hard here to make sure that rugby union has an advantage over rugby league.

Incidentally, the CEO of the IRB is an Aussie (Brett Gosper), so he would have even more of an incentive to pull strings.

So, what is the IRB doing to help the ARU? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. There is surely not much point having "friends in high places" if they don't help you.

Looking dispassionately at the possibilities for the growth of rugby league internationally, and as a truly competitive international game, I would say that the biggest single enemy of a strong international code is actually the ARL. The ARL could do a helluva lot to encourage players from other Pacific countries to choose to represent their own countries, rather than to seek to qualify for Australia. If the other countries of the Pacific were all at full strength, suddenly the international game would be more attractive, more competitive, and more lucrative. If more money was earned by the World Cups, and other international tournaments and games, that would be very useful in developing the sport.

But rugby league's own "friends in high places" apparently do not want to develop their own sport internationally, they are much happier basking in their own success at home, thank you very much.
 

LJC

Juniors
Messages
584
"Friends in high places" is a generic term/reference for people in positions that enable things like:

*the police and army stopping an English rugby league team from playing a game in Morocco and Lebanon this year and last year.
*legislation banning the accreditation/certification of rugby league in Russia, South Africa to this day.(I'm sure there are more countries and this sort of stuff is not being experienced by RU administrators anywhere!)
*the remarkable continuing policy of most private schools in Australia and around the world for that matter, in not allowing RL to be played. Astonishingly the fields/infrastructure are/is already there yet RL does not get a start!
* programmers in TV companies that restrict the showing of RL and also forlornly keep trying to push/promote the antiquated form of rugby in union wherever possible.
* a French RL club having to postpone/cancel plans to stage a TV game due to RU tactics in making the ground unavailable this year

There are more and if you care to look at some previous postings in this thread you will find them.

Yes, these people in high places are there and are doing there level best to inhibit and stop the growth of RL.
 

TheDalek079

Bench
Messages
4,432
Friends in High Places. This high place is clearly heaven. And what is the national sport of Heaven? Rugby Union! Friends in high places indeed!
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
"Friends in high places" is a generic term/reference for people in positions that enable things like:

*the police and army stopping an English rugby league team from playing a game in Morocco and Lebanon this year and last year.
*legislation banning the accreditation/certification of rugby league in Russia, South Africa to this day.(I'm sure there are more countries and this sort of stuff is not being experienced by RU administrators anywhere!)
*the remarkable continuing policy of most private schools in Australia and around the world for that matter, in not allowing RL to be played. Astonishingly the fields/infrastructure are/is already there yet RL does not get a start!
* programmers in TV companies that restrict the showing of RL and also forlornly keep trying to push/promote the antiquated form of rugby in union wherever possible.
* a French RL club having to postpone/cancel plans to stage a TV game due to RU tactics in making the ground unavailable this year

There are more and if you care to look at some previous postings in this thread you will find them.

Yes, these people in high places are there and are doing there level best to inhibit and stop the growth of RL.

Ahhhh i see it was emotive drivle for which you have no evidence... much like every post of yours in this thread... if you had any evidence of who these so called people where that might be something... but you dont seem to.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,867
Ahhhh i see it was emotive drivle for which you have no evidence... much like every post of yours in this thread... if you had any evidence of who these so called people where that might be something... but you dont seem to.

you don't think this actual event that actually happened is evidence? What you think the powers that be in those countries just decided off their own back to sabotage a RL tour? :roll:

*the police and army stopping an English rugby league team from playing a game in Morocco and Lebanon this year and last year
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
you don't think this actual event that actually happened is evidence? What you think the powers that be in those countries just decided off their own back to sabotage a RL tour? :roll:

*the police and army stopping an English rugby league team from playing a game in Morocco and Lebanon this year and last year

Who organised it? who ordered it? who did it? in which "high place" where these people in? If you know who they are can you tell LJC I bet he is dying to know.
 

BODISGOD

Bench
Messages
3,604
"Friends in high places" is a generic term/reference for people in positions that enable things like:

*the police and army stopping an English rugby league team from playing a game in Morocco and Lebanon this year and last year.
*legislation banning the accreditation/certification of rugby league in Russia, South Africa to this day.(I'm sure there are more countries and this sort of stuff is not being experienced by RU administrators anywhere!)
*the remarkable continuing policy of most private schools in Australia and around the world for that matter, in not allowing RL to be played. Astonishingly the fields/infrastructure are/is already there yet RL does not get a start!
* programmers in TV companies that restrict the showing of RL and also forlornly keep trying to push/promote the antiquated form of rugby in union wherever possible.
* a French RL club having to postpone/cancel plans to stage a TV game due to RU tactics in making the ground unavailable this year

There are more and if you care to look at some previous postings in this thread you will find them.

Yes, these people in high places are there and are doing there level best to inhibit and stop the growth of RL.


The only other field sports ever mentioned by kids in my school were soccer, hurling and gaelic football to be played along with rugby union.

It isn't on the radar; interest wise or governing body knocking on doors.

"Tv programmers" have some kind of conspiracy apparently. You wonder why noone takes you seriously.
 

Bronco Rob

Juniors
Messages
922
I suppose there was no people in high places instrumental in the banning of rugby league in the British Armed Forces up till the mid 90's either. Even though the British armed forces were predominately from the North, the ministry of defence held the mantra that there was no interest in Rugby League.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
A friend in a high place:

Jacques Rogge, president of the IOC, ex-belgian rugby union player. Probably would have helped union 7s getting into the olympics a little.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Rogge

Obviously union had some friends in high places during the Vichy regime in France.
Undoubtedly ... but LJC is claiming these "friends" actively put down League at the behest of the IRB.. has he ever done that?
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
I suppose there was no people in high places instrumental in the banning of rugby league in the British Armed Forces up till the mid 90's either. Even though the British armed forces were predominately from the North, the ministry of defence held the mantra that there was no interest in Rugby League.

So who were they? or is it more supposition?
 

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