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The Forbidden Game-insightful book on what has & can happen

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
However, it just seems to me worth pointing out that continual repetition of the undoubted wrongs of the Vichy regime can look like a partial excuse for what went wrong in the post-war years. Again, the fact that rugby league in France was capable of producing world beating players and teams well after the end of the war is worth remembering. What else went wrong?

As you pointed out, yes the French DID have a strong team playing in the 1950's

After the war ended, the players themselves carried on playing Rugby League. However, that crop of players got older and finally retired.

What the war had done was tip the balance in favour of the Union teams to such an extent that the CLUBS themselves couldn't recover.

The loss of stadiums, training facilities, bank accounts etc just meant they were starting from scratch with no money in a Country crippled by post war Austerity.

From the 1970's onwards as Leagues influence shrank, the French Union team grew in popularity. The funding from Government was all tilted towards Union and the League clubs couldn't recover.
 

Knownothing

Juniors
Messages
764
As you pointed out, yes the French DID have a strong team playing in the 1950's

After the war ended, the players themselves carried on playing Rugby League. However, that crop of players got older and finally retired.

What the war had done was tip the balance in favour of the Union teams to such an extent that the CLUBS themselves couldn't recover.

The loss of stadiums, training facilities, bank accounts etc just meant they were starting from scratch with no money in a Country crippled by post war Austerity.

From the 1970's onwards as Leagues influence shrank, the French Union team grew in popularity. The funding from Government was all tilted towards Union and the League clubs couldn't recover.

There was a lot of private money available for rugby union, too.
 

LJC

Juniors
Messages
584
As you pointed out, yes the French DID have a strong team playing in the 1950's

After the war ended, the players themselves carried on playing Rugby League. However, that crop of players got older and finally retired.

What the war had done was tip the balance in favour of the Union teams to such an extent that the CLUBS themselves couldn't recover.

The loss of stadiums, training facilities, bank accounts etc just meant they were starting from scratch with no money in a Country crippled by post war Austerity.

From the 1970's onwards as Leagues influence shrank, the French Union team grew in popularity. The funding from Government was all tilted towards Union and the League clubs couldn't recover.

Yes. Something else was imposed.

To this day no one can be educated as a sports instructor in rugby league in France. No school access for RL is a decent obstacle!

In fact I believe if their is one major obstacle for RL it is getting universal or decent access into most school systems around the world. In Australia(NSW & QLD) decent access has been achieved and the game is a major sport but such schools access is not the norm elsewhere.

That is the main issue for RL progress - access into school systems around the world. RU has such access worldwide whereas RL has not!
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Yes. Something else was imposed.

To this day no one can be educated as a sports instructor in rugby league in France. No school access for RL is a decent obstacle!

In fact I believe if their is one major obstacle for RL it is getting universal or decent access into most school systems around the world. In Australia(NSW & QLD) decent access has been achieved and the game is a major sport but such schools access is not the norm elsewhere.

That is the main issue for RL progress - access into school systems around the world. RU has such access worldwide whereas RL has not!
While you are correct about school instructors in France, i must point out that there has never been RL instructors or RL games played in French schools at an officially recognised or accepted level, yet the French RL of the mid 30's and throught the 50's to the early 60's flourished.

The schools issue is one issue but by no means is it as serious one as you are making out. Most kids in Australia play soccer at school, but barely any become professional players.

The game of RL needs to be accessible outside schools. Grassroots footy.

Something Australia, England & New Zealand don't spend anywhere near enough money & time on. Yet another example of the poor administration running the game.
 

LJC

Juniors
Messages
584
While you are correct about school instructors in France, i must point out that there has never been RL instructors or RL games played in French schools at an officially recognised or accepted level, yet the French RL of the mid 30's and throught the 50's to the early 60's flourished.

The schools issue is one issue but by no means is it as serious one as you are making out. Most kids in Australia play soccer at school, but barely any become professional players.

The game of RL needs to be accessible outside schools. Grassroots footy.

Something Australia, England & New Zealand don't spend anywhere near enough money & time on. Yet another example of the poor administration running the game.

Access to schools systems is a very handy advantage used by many sports, particularly RU. I agree that RL administration has been lacking but targeting school systems is a very effective way of getting the game of RL known to the youth of the world.

I think you will note that RL has a decent presence in school systems within NSW and QLD and subsequently this flows onto the greater community. Yes their are factors like TV coverage and other domestic competitions .
Having RL played in various school systems around the world would be of great benefit for the code.

After all, one would figure that such exposure and presence would open the eyes of many young people to a game that is far and away much more attractive in both play and viewing than other forms of rugby.

Access to the education system is very important.

Just ask RU administrators!

In fact this sports instructor comment on the French scenario was made by English journalist Hugh Schofield in his very apt article called "French rugby league fights for rights." He mentions, " Even today the sport is still marginalized." (8th Oct 2002)

PS: Within the Australian context:I have just graduated as a teacher and am fully aware that my level 1 RL coaching certificate will not be useful when approaching most private schools for work.
 
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madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Access to schools systems is a very handy advantage used by many sports, particularly RU. I agree that RL administration has been lacking but targeting school systems is a very effective way of getting the game of RL known to the youth of the world.

I think you will note that RL has a decent presence in school systems within NSW and QLD and subsequently this flows onto the greater community. Yes their are factors like TV coverage and other domestic competitions .
Having RL played in various school systems around the world would be of great benefit for the code.

After all, one would figure that such exposure and presence would open the eyes of many young people to a game that is far and away much more attractive in both play and viewing than other forms of rugby.

Access to the education system is very important.

Just ask RU administrators!

In fact this sports instructor comment on the French scenario was made by English journalist Hugh Schofield in his very apt article called "French rugby league fights for rights." He mentions, " Even today the sport is still marginalized." (8th Oct 2002)

PS: Within the Australian context:I have just graduated as a teacher and am fully aware that my level 1 RL coaching certificate will not be useful when approaching most private schools for work.
RL in private schools will not have the huge effect you think it might.

Let me put it this way, do you think RU has grown/improved/become more successful in the last 20 years?

In my opinion the answer is a resounding no, especially in comparison with RL.

This to me shows that RU doesn't have that great of an advantage over RL, especially regarding kids.

Lets be honest, how much RU would you see on the tv compared to RL in a year?

What RL lost via private schools they made up for (and then some) via tv/media.

i think while your point is valid, in todays world, its almost irrelevant.
 

magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
RL in private schools will not have the huge effect you think it might.

Let me put it this way, do you think RU has grown/improved/become more successful in the last 20 years?

In my opinion the answer is a resounding no, especially in comparison with RL.

This to me shows that RU doesn't have that great of an advantage over RL, especially regarding kids.

Lets be honest, how much RU would you see on the tv compared to RL in a year?

What RL lost via private schools they made up for (and then some) via tv/media.

i think while your point is valid, in todays world, its almost irrelevant.

I think the private schools that LJC is talking about (GPS, CAS, ISA & AICES) number about 30 in NSW and probably the same in Qld; so it is a minimal number compared with the diocese catholic schools in NSW and Qld; as these would number in the hundreds.

To be honest, I think the powerbrokers in the ARU, if given the opportunity, would do an immediate swap - Catholic Schools - RU, Other GPS type schools - RL.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
I think the point is, x students of these GPS/CAS schools wield a hell of a lot of influence around the big end of town,out of proportion to total school numbers.This is changing to a degree.
IMO all schools should offer students all the major football codes,as part of the sporting curriculum.Having to play union for 6 years,was like regularly visiting the dentist for root canal therapy.
 

LJC

Juniors
Messages
584
I think the point is, x students of these GPS/CAS schools wield a hell of a lot of influence around the big end of town,out of proportion to total school numbers.This is changing to a degree.
IMO all schools should offer students all the major football codes,as part of the sporting curriculum.Having to play union for 6 years,was like regularly visiting the dentist for root canal therapy.

Totally agree. The big end of town influence is massive on a world wide scale. RL is a market driven code and is perfect for the mass TV market. I hope we all agree that it is actually a far better product and this is why it has decent dominance and presence in NSW & QLD and other parts of Australia.

Aussies have given the code a "go".

And schools systems such as the Catholic system have enabled this to happen. This access does not occur elsewhere in the world.

Worldwide, you will note RU have its presence in most schools compared to RL. This is a very significant obstacle in the uptake of RL and its acceptance around the world.

Once this school access is improved, the benefits will flow through. Until such access, RL will continue its uphill battle to have a presence on a world wide scale.

I think a point is being missed here in that most schools offer both RU and RL as a sporting option to play whereas most private schools do not offer RL. My public school offered both RL and RU. Mind you I had to sign a special declaration to play RU which I found odd at the time and mentioned this to my Dad that night. He questioned me "What kind of a sport makes you do that?"
 
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Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
Aussies have given the code a "go".

And is only "dominant' in 2 states. How can this be when you claim Rugby is stopping access and its at best only the forth football code. How does that explain the lack of "dominance' in Perth, SA, Vic?

And schools systems such as the Catholic system have enabled this to happen. This access does not occur elsewhere in the world.

Thast because most schools world wide have heard of neither code.


Worldwide, you will note RU have its presence in most schools compared to RL.

A complete lie. In MOST schools neither code has a "pressence" and to say the reason League isnt played in those schools is Rugby "friends in high places" when Rugby is isnt played there either is just moronic.

This is a very significant obstacle in the uptake of RL and its acceptance around the world.

For which League admin is at fault, nobody else.

Once this school access is improved, the benefits will flow through. Until such access, RL will continue its uphill battle to have a presence on a world wide scale.

Very true... but instead of blaming mythical "friends in high places" work on pressure the League bodies to do soemthign about it.

I think a point is being missed here in that most schools offer both RU and RL as a sporting option to play whereas most private schools do not offer RL.

Again you state this as a fact with no evidence to support this. The EASILY verified fact is that neither sport is offered in the VAST majority of private schools or any school for that matter world wide.
 

ek999

First Grade
Messages
6,977
Outisde of England, Australia, France and NZ when was Rugby League introduced to other countries compared to Rugby Union?

I do find it interesting that in most countries around the world Soccer is the most dominant football code, usually followed by its offshoot Rugby Union, usually followed by its offshoot Rugby League.
 

magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
Totally agree. The big end of town influence is massive on a world wide scale. RL is a market driven code and is perfect for the mass TV market. I hope we all agree that it is actually a far better product and this is why it has decent dominance and presence in NSW & QLD and other parts of Australia.

Aussies have given the code a "go".

And schools systems such as the Catholic system have enabled this to happen. This access does not occur elsewhere in the world.

Worldwide, you will note RU have its presence in most schools compared to RL. This is a very significant obstacle in the uptake of RL and its acceptance around the world.

Once this school access is improved, the benefits will flow through. Until such access, RL will continue its uphill battle to have a presence on a world wide scale.

I think a point is being missed here in that most schools offer both RU and RL as a sporting option to play whereas most private schools do not offer RL. My public school offered both RL and RU. Mind you I had to sign a special declaration to play RU which I found odd at the time and mentioned this to my Dad that night. He questioned me "What kind of a sport makes you do that?"

Again, this just not true. Very few diocese catholic schools offer Rugby Union as a sport; only through the work of some dedicated teachers have some catholic schools (MCS West, Sydney) offered Rugby Union as a sport at the end of the rugby league competition (One round plus final) for U14s and 16s.

You need to get your facts right.

Rugby League has not made inroads in most countries due to the incompetence of the international board, not due to "friends in high places".

You are a twat.
 

ek999

First Grade
Messages
6,977
I know that at the two Catholic Schools that I went to Rugby League was the dominant football code played
 

ek999

First Grade
Messages
6,977
I'm sure we had Rugby Union teams but I think they only played in like a 1 day carnival type event. Rugby League teams participated in the national school boy comps though
 

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