The Forbidden Game-insightful book on what has & can happen

[magpie4ever]

No, that'd be you. Vichy France banning RL etc.

Dropkick - attitude adjustment required. Knight Vision - here boy.

 

[LJC]

Did you also send them copies of your lies? your avoidance of questions? or are you one of those fascist Nazi types who only tell one side of the story to promote your propaganda?

Propaganda is it?

I'd say its a logical observation which believe it or not is very possible.

I happen to believe, along with others, that repression in the form of establishment based advantages such as access to most schooling(worldwide)and the many government sanctioned policies(failing to register/certification of RL in Sth Africa & Russia) are very real examples of what had been going on around the world.

People like yourself choose to deny these facts on the basis of no names being provided. Go figure, these examples of repression are and have happened but that doesn't suit people like yourself.

Continue to bask in your ignorance. You have a proven record. Deny as much as you like whilst the game of RL suffers.

To be truthful if all things were equal and fair, RL would be by now, far and away the most dominant rugby code in the world. Poor administration(perhaps deliberate in many cases?) and repressive tactics courtesy of RUs influence/friends in influential places all over the world-etc-RU people are more well travelled than your average RL fan-in other words wealthier, largely due to the flow on effect of the mainly RU playing private school systems of the world.

Furthermore, with RL not being allowed to be played or taught in all French schools ,I'd say that is a clear example of repression of a sport. The journalist I quoted(Hugh Schofield) mentioned this fact at the end of his article. I'd suggest you read it. It summarizes the French situation to the modern day from the games beginnings in 1934.

I'm sure that this(non playing of RL in schools) is replicated elsewhere in the world and you denial people can't figure that it makes the uptake of RL very difficult.

It's quite logical and with these repressive tactics who is the benefactor? The outdated code of RU.

Don't let logic and fact get in the way of your insistent denials. Quite strange from a so called RL fan!? Your comfort zone is still there and you can keep your abuse going. That's your style. Dudes like yourself should be ashamed to class themselves as RL fans.

 

[madunit]

Your second last post was devoid of much logic or fact.

 

[Te Kaha]

Propaganda is it?

Half truths and outright lies? qualifies as propaganda yes.

I'd say its a logical observation which believe it or not is very possible.

Logical to you maybe, but then you aren't very rational.

I happen to believe, along with others, that repression in the form of establishment based advantages such as access to most schooling(worldwide)and the many government sanctioned policies(failing to register/certification of RL in Sth Africa & Russia) are very real examples of what had been going on around the world.

For which you have no proof.. your belief is based on faith not evidence... isolated examples does not mean that it is happening elsewhere.. you just guess that it is.

People like yourself choose to deny these facts on the basis of no names being provided. Go figure, these examples of repression are and have happened but that doesn't suit people like yourself.

Its not no names.. its no evidence. You spin a fairy tale and demand others believe it... much like the bible its make believe.

Continue to bask in your ignorance. You have a proven record. Deny as much as you like whilst the game of RL suffers.

You making stuff up does not make me ignorant.

To be truthful if all things were equal and fair, RL would be by now, far and away the most dominant rugby code in the world.

In your opinion... you have no prof to back this up other than your belief that that League is the greatest game in the world... a belief not shares by everybody else.

Poor administration(perhaps deliberate in many cases?) and repressive tactics courtesy of RUs influence/friends in influential places all over the world-etc-RU people are more well travelled than your average RL fan-in other words wealthier, largely due to the flow on effect of the mainly RU playing private school systems of the world.

Your disrespect and belittling of the League fans is breath taking.. to think League "people" couldn't be successful.

Furthermore, with RL not being allowed to be played or taught in all French schools ,I'd say that is a clear example of repression of a sport. The journalist I quoted(Hugh Schofield) mentioned this fact at the end of his article. I'd suggest you read it. It summarizes the French situation to the modern day from the games beginnings in 1934.

And who is disputing what happened in France?

I'm sure that this(non playing of RL in schools) is replicated elsewhere in the world and you denial people can't figure that it makes the uptake of RL very difficult.

Of course you are sure, you have no proof but your faith dictates it must be true.

The outdated code of RU.

Again your opinion.. not one based on fact but on taste.

Don't let logic and fact get in the way of your insistent denials.

Don't let your arguments and statements get in the way of the truth.. not that it has yet.

Quite strange from a so called RL fan!? Your comfort zone is still there and you can keep your abuse going. That's your style. Dudes like yourself should be ashamed to class themselves as RL fans.

You should be ashamed to call yourself a teacher.. since you seem incapable of rational thought.

 

[russ13]

Here's a interesting article by Phil Melling in 1996.


http://www.library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportsHistorian/1996/sh16d.pdf

(On page 4 is the reference to RL being England second most popular spectator sport BTW.)


This article was published jut as union became openly pro. They were always going to come out of the block fast i.e. by buying RL players & coaches.

A good judge told me this was probably the best thing that could have happened for RL. As you know union under the mantle or guise of "amateurism principles" was able to obstruct, hinder & penalise RL.

They can't do that anymore!

 

[magpie4ever]

Propaganda is it?

I'd say its a logical observation which believe it or not is very possible.

I happen to believe, along with others, that repression in the form of establishment based advantages such as access to most schooling(worldwide)and the many government sanctioned policies(failing to register/certification of RL in Sth Africa & Russia) are very real examples of what had been going on around the world.

People like yourself choose to deny these facts on the basis of no names being provided. Go figure, these examples of repression are and have happened but that doesn't suit people like yourself.

Continue to bask in your ignorance. You have a proven record. Deny as much as you like whilst the game of RL suffers.

To be truthful if all things were equal and fair, RL would be by now, far and away the most dominant rugby code in the world. Poor administration(perhaps deliberate in many cases?) and repressive tactics courtesy of RUs influence/friends in influential places all over the world-etc-RU people are more well travelled than your average RL fan-in other words wealthier, largely due to the flow on effect of the mainly RU playing private school systems of the world.

Furthermore, with RL not being allowed to be played or taught in all French schools ,I'd say that is a clear example of repression of a sport. The journalist I quoted(Hugh Schofield) mentioned this fact at the end of his article. I'd suggest you read it. It summarizes the French situation to the modern day from the games beginnings in 1934.

I'm sure that this(non playing of RL in schools) is replicated elsewhere in the world and you denial people can't figure that it makes the uptake of RL very difficult.

It's quite logical and with these repressive tactics who is the benefactor? The outdated code of RU.

Don't let logic and fact get in the way of your insistent denials. Quite strange from a so called RL fan!? Your comfort zone is still there and you can keep your abuse going. That's your style. Dudes like yourself should be ashamed to class themselves as RL fans.

So now it is worlwide, this fiction just keeps getting better. I'm sure the battle between Union and League across the private schools in the USA makes the TV news every night.

Surely, you are not serious. Please reconsider your career as a teacher.

 

[papabear]

This thread is starting to go for too long.

IMO rugby league should be using its salary cap to try and buy up the premier rugby talent in nz and sa, watch the game boom in those two nations and grow from their.

 

[magpie4ever]

This thread is starting to go for too long.

IMO rugby league should be using its salary cap to try and buy up the premier rugby talent in nz and sa, watch the game boom in those two nations and grow from their.

Seriously, good idea.

 

[LJC]

Your second last post was devoid of much logic or fact.

That's your opinion MU and you are entitled to it.

I tend to disagree with you. That's my call.

I might add that Teh Kaha is a very poor example of an RL fan when he continually defends RU to the nth degree.

His observation on the tackle count numbers of RL games compared to RU is way off the mark. But then again this is consistent for this dude!

I'd suggest he actually count the tackles in each game. I have.
I counted the tackles in a RU test match and an NRL game. The numbers stack up. He has argued that the tackle numbers are inflated due to 2nd and 3rd man in counts? These tackles(2nd & 3rdman in) were not counted in either code!

And yes it is my opinion and should be the same for others in this folder that RL is the best code. Teh Kaha is showing his true spots and its quite pathetic in a RL web site.

I stand by the observations and logic I have contributed.

Their is significant repression in action against the game of RL and it is in a variety of forms. Those that are well connected through the wealthy and private school systems and therefore the upper echelons of society/business community/government positions can and have impact on a sport. These people in such positions do play their role and I believe the relatively slow growth of RL can be attributed to these factors.(Non certification of RL in South Africa& Russia, stopping English RL teams at the airport in Morocco& Lebanon, the Super league war, non playing of RL en masse in various countries school systems, the struggle to create RL clubs in places such as universities, the sacking of Aussie workers employed in Japan whom played a charity game of RL on a given weekend in 2009, two Aussie playing RU in Ireland were told they could play any other sport except for RL during the off season, and it goes on). Not to mention the continued marginalization of RL in France!
The marginalization of RL is evident in countries like Japan, Scotland, Wales, South Africa, Russia and Ireland and many more no doubt. Examples of repression are often discussed in other RL websites if Teh Haka and Co want to investigate, but I'm sure these dudes will not do so.
Notwithstanding poor administration has its role as well. But both are as much to blame for the poor presence of RL on a world wide scale. Repression in its various forms and poor administration are thwarting RLs progress. It deserves more and let's hope one day it (RL) gets the recognition it deserves.

I don't think RL gained a great TV deal as it had to forego many things to have the figure increased. These things included a late grand final timeslot and the continuation of Monday night football. But that's another topic. But still a poor outcome for a code that consistently has the most potent TV ratings figures bar none of any other football code in Australia.

 

[magpie4ever]

That's your opinion MU and you are entitled to it.

I tend to disagree with you. That's my call.

I might add that Teh Kaha is a very poor example of an RL fan when he continually defends RU to the nth degree.

His observation that of the tackle count numbers of RL games compared to RU are way off the mark.

I'd suggest he actually count the tackles in each game. I have.
I counted the tackles in a RU test match and an NRL RL game. The numbers stack up. He has argued that the tackle numbers are inflated due to 2nd and 3rd man in counts? These tackles(2nd & 3rdman in) were not counted in either code!

And yes it is my opinion and should be the same for others in this folder that RL is the best code. The Kaha is showing his true spots and its quite pathetic in RL web site.

I stand by the observations and logic I have contributed.

Their is significant repression in action against the game of RL and it is in a variety of forms. Those that are well connected through the wealthy and private school systems and therefore the upper echelons of society/business community/government positions can and have impact on a sport. These people in such positions do play their role and I believe the relatively slow growth of RL can be attributed to these factors.(Non certification of RL in South Africa& Russia, stopping English RL teams at the airport in Morocco& Lebanon, the Super league war, non playing of RL en masse in various countries school systems, the struggle to create RL clubs in places such as universities and the examples go on). Not to mention the continued marginalization of RL in France!

Notwithstanding poor administration has its role as well. But both are as much to blame for the poor presence of RL on a world wide scale. Repression in its various forms and poor administration are thwarting RLs progress. It deserves more and let's hope one day it (RL) gets the recognition it deserves.

It was me, dropkick. and 2nd and 3rd tacklers are counted until the tackle is completed.

It is there, teacher. I fear for your students.

Now the Super League war was a RU ploy. Is there no end to the shit, this guy dribbles.

 

[LJC]

Here's a interesting article by Phil Melling in 1996.


http://www.library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportsHistorian/1996/sh16d.pdf

(On page 4 is the reference to RL being England second most popular spectator sport BTW.)


This article was published jut as union became openly pro. They were always going to come out of the block fast i.e. by buying RL players & coaches.

A good judge told me this was probably the best thing that could have happened for RL. As you know union under the mantle or guise of "amateurism principles" was able to obstruct, hinder & penalise RL.

They can't do that anymore!

Good article and it should be read by our people whom are denying the repression of RL. This relates to rugby league and the RU tactics used in Britain: It even states "sports apartheid" and further states:

The people who perpetrated​

these acts were motivated by an attempt to protect Rugby Union, even at​

student level, at all costs.

Hope they do read this!But wait a minute!- too much fact involved! Definitely not future students of mine! Damn!

 

[Perth Red]

Off topic but why has RU in japan taken off? They don't seem a upper class type society. How did the rah rash get a foothold there, and why has RL failed to get a foothold of similar size in any country since png in 1950?

 

[russ13]

Off topic but why has RU in japan taken off? They don't seem a upper class type society. How did the rah rash get a foothold there, and why has RL failed to get a foothold of similar size in any country since png in 1950?

Union there receives massive subsidies from corporates such as Suntory (Brewers & Distillers) & other corporations. Much like a fair number of union clubs in France & all of Italy.


Without them union doesn't exist. There is virtually no grass roots support.

It's not a healthy situation.

 

[ek999]

Friends in high places have been repressing it of course.

Actually Rugby Union was introduced to Japan in the late 1800's before Rugby League even existed. Rugby League didn't get introduced to Japan until the 1990's. It also sums up why Union is played more world wide than League. It was played in most countries before the breakaway to form Rugby League happened and international Rugby League boards did nothing to increase the reach of Rugby League.

Also it has one of the highest participation rates of either code in the world

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Are we talking in Australia or world-wide here because I'm confused. If your talking world-wide then your an idiot because Rugby League is not played in most countries for reasons I have already provided - that there was never any reason to break away from Rugby Union so no other version of the sport was ever introduced. If your talking about in Australia then your an idiot because Rugby League is already far more popular and easily the most dominant sport in NSW and Qld which are the Rugby states and is now also making inroads into the AFL states finally.

Also this shit about Rugby League being born out of the popularity of the masses is just stupid. It was because the working class Rugby Union players wanted to be paid above all else to compensate them for time off work.

Why does anyone have to break away from anything, isn't the point of this thread all about freedom of choice?

If RL starts up, maybe it's because some people have seen it and actually want to play it.

Wow, there's a new thought!

 

[magpie4ever]

Why does anyone have to break away from anything, isn't the point of this thread all about freedom of choice?

If RL starts up, maybe it's because some people have seen it and actually want to play it.

Wow, there's a new thought!

Wow, that is a new take on the history of rugby league.

Don't understand what is meant by it, but - hey, freedom of speech.

 

[Te Kaha]

You are monumentally stupid. Seriously, you want to be a teacher? heaven help the next generation of Australian school children.

I might add that Teh Kaha is a very poor example of an RL fan when he continually defends RU to the nth degree.

So a League fan, in your opinon, cant be a fan of other codes? sports? what a boring life you must lead.

His observation on the tackle count numbers of RL games compared to RU is way off the mark. But then again this is consistent for this dude!

I'd suggest he actually count the tackles in each game. I have.
I counted the tackles in a RU test match and an NRL game. The numbers stack up. He has argued that the tackle numbers are inflated due to 2nd and 3rd man in counts? These tackles(2nd & 3rdman in) were not counted in either code!

As it has been pointed out, that wasnt me... more poor comprehension from you... but while we are on that subject.. your claim of 500-600 takles per game that League gets.. you do realise that averages out at 30-35 takles EACH for all 17 players. which particulr games were those? if you are saying all of them you are an outright liar.

Your belief that League is better due to "tackle count" is flawed as it is only a small aspect of each game. What about passing? most passes by far in League are "one out" not so in Rugby some people prefer passing to takling.
Scrums in league are a disgrace, some people actually enjoy the domination of a real scrumaging team over a lesser one.
In league, other than the one on one strip, there is no "competition for the ball" when a team has it... in Rugby there is at all times the ball is in play... some people like that too

Just because YOU believe something because of your tastes does not make it true for the rest of the world.. something you constantly fail to understand.

And yes it is my opinion and should be the same for others in this folder that RL is the best code. Teh Kaha is showing his true spots and its quite pathetic in a RL web site.

Why should it be? because you say so? are you LJC Hitler now?

I stand by the observations and logic I have contributed.

Thats because you arent very smart. your view of the world is VERY limited.. usual for someone just out of University... have you ever been out of Australia?

Their is significant repression in action against the game of RL and it is in a variety of forms. Those that are well connected through the wealthy and private school systems and therefore the upper echelons of society/business community/government positions can and have impact on a sport. These people in such positions do play their role and I believe the relatively slow growth of RL can be attributed to these factors.(Non certification of RL in South Africa& Russia, stopping English RL teams at the airport in Morocco& Lebanon, the Super league war, non playing of RL en masse in various countries school systems, the struggle to create RL clubs in places such as universities, the sacking of Aussie workers employed in Japan whom played a charity game of RL on a given weekend in 2009, two Aussie playing RU in Ireland were told they could play any other sport except for RL during the off season, and it goes on). Not to mention the continued marginalization of RL in France!

And what about the rest of the world? you claim Rugby is preventy League from prospering in countries that have never heard of either code.. back it up.

The marginalization of RL is evident in countries like Japan, Scotland, Wales, South Africa, Russia and Ireland and many more no doubt. Examples of repression are often discussed in other RL websites if Teh Haka and Co want to investigate, but I'm sure these dudes will not do so.

The funniest thing about you changing my "tag" as a form of insult, is you have no idea what it means and what you are changing it to... its very funny.

Notwithstanding poor administration has its role as well. But both are as much to blame for the poor presence of RL on a world wide scale. Repression in its various forms and poor administration are thwarting RLs progress. It deserves more and let's hope one day it (RL) gets the recognition it deserves.

Poor admin is the major factor, as is lack of funds and personal taste. Every other factor, while contributing, is minor compared to those three.

I don't think RL gained a great TV deal as it had to forego many things to have the figure increased. These things included a late grand final timeslot and the continuation of Monday night football. But that's another topic. But still a poor outcome for a code that consistently has the most potent TV ratings figures bar none of any other football code in Australia.

Simple question.. if you answer it correctly I wont post in this thread again...

Your claim that Rugby's "friends in high places" are "repressing" League in Aussie. Rugby, at lest, is the forth football code there... How when league as clear no 1 only get a 5mill odd as its highest rating viewership in a country of 22Mil odd?..

come on attempt to answer that.

 

[madunit]

That's your opinion MU and you are entitled to it.

I tend to disagree with you. That's my call.

No, its not my opinion. It's fact. I'll tell you all about it once again.

Well "IDIOT"
RL had to appeal to the masses in order to survive. If you read the history of the game, yes the players were quite rightly seeking financial payment but the game had to make money to survive.

This is mostly incorrect regarding the birth of RL in Sydney. James Giltinan bought Dally Messenger and used his proposal for a tour to England (which he funded himself, not the NSWRL) as a means to sign up clubs to play RL.

After the Kangaroo tour was a dire financial failure, Giltinan was bankrupt, the NSWRL had debt and the game almost died.

Some of the NSWRL officials secretly decided to sign up the Wallabies, using money provided by James Joynton-Smith. When successful, the NSWRL had barely repaid their debts and had a pittance of money in the bank. But at the same time, they had signed up most of the best RU players in Australia, mostly in a deceptive manner, but it helped the game survive and become popular.

First NSWRL president and the first full time NSWRL secretary Edward Larkin were both Labor MP's who managed to get RL introduced to Catholic Schools in Australia just prior to WWI.

The game developed a faster and more open form of rugby that won over the general public. It's well documented. When you have a code of rugby that has 500 to 600 tackles(in total on average) therefore runs compared to RU (150 tackles in total on average) then there appears to be more on ball action that the spectator is able to view in the RL form of the game.

If you were to look at the fact that the NSWRL crowds were very small in the first 2 years, but significantly bigger after the Wallabies were signed, it shows that the public went to where the best players were. All the other stuff about 600 tackles etc is your opinion, not fact. Frankly discussing such nonsense would be as boring and fruitless as watching RU itself.

This, believe it or not, made RL the most popular code of rugby in NSW and QLD. The actual product(RL) had to pay for the running of its competition whereas RU could survive with its cronies in the rich and influential areas within the establishment.

Wrong. RL survived and grew on the back of private money provided by entrepeneurs James Giltinan and James Joynton-Smith in NSW.

In QLD the game struggled because the disgruntled RU players went to Sydney to participate in RL. RL in Australia made a conscious decision to continue playing throughout the war, whereas the RU ceased competition. This saw a lot of RU players in QLD jump codes and take up RL and by the 1920's, RL in QLD had started to become popular. It was only the bickering and infighting between the QRL and the newly formed Brisbane RL that prevented it from capitalising.

Therefore, RL existed and survived on the back of private money and politicians who were also administrators of the game in NSW and in QLD it survived on the RU players voluntarily switching codes during and after the war years.

Finally, you have to learn and understand that RL, especially in Australia, is not as squeaky clean as you'd like to think it is. In fact its guilty of some of the things you are associating with RU (private money, friends in high places etc). However I am not saying that RU hasn't relied upon friends in high places or private money. What I'm saying is that both are guilty of such things. You are adamant that only RU is.

Which has been my point all along.

These are facts.

Not an opinion.

 

[LJC]

MU.

I am saying that RU has gained significantly more benefit from 'friends in high places" than RL ever did!
The fact that RU seems to have a mortgage on what is played in the influential and powerful private & public school sectors worldwide add to the ability to give its code access whereas RL does not have such an advantage. This flow on effect does impact on RL as you may deduct from the examples that have been posted to this thread by other people , not only myself.

We agree that RL is a clearly better product! Thank god!

My counting of the tackles are an average estimate. If there are 6 to 8 tackles(and their is) in a minute of RL the figures stack up.(80 minute game) As pointed out RL scrums are quick and the game has a play the ball which is significantly faster than the RU ruck/mall on most occasions. Not to mention that the collisions in RL are far greater and have more impact in that players are mostly 10 metres apart not 1 to 3 metres apart as seen in RU.

I believe that RL has proven to be a much more appealing sports product than RU and this is largely due to its faster and more open play. I doubt whether the public of NSW or QLD would have embraced a code that was not appealing and therefore I stand by the belief that RL gained its stripes as a better and more attractive code of rugby when a situation of decent school access eventuated. Yes the stars of RU did come over and they enjoyed RL.

A recent thread contribution shows the mindset of the RU people in Britain toward RL. Hope you read it. This is a mindset that can be seen to reflect the thoughts and action of RU biased people in many places around the world. Your stance seems to suggest that because in NSW, RL gained this concession of Catholic school access that the rest of the world can casually accept the bigotry and apartheid like treatment of RL that has occurred in bucket loads.

Perhaps it is all not one sided(RL in NSW-Wow!) but the acts of repression/bigotry are definitely loaded from the RU side of the ledger on a worldwide scale.

Please read the Russ13 article on page 49 post number 725. It does give an insight into the mindset of these RU indoctrinated individuals. In fact Magpie4eva and Teh Kaha might care to read it as they are oblivious to the apartheid like treatment and thought process involved in this widespread repression of RL. It might enlighten them and look at things in a different perspective!

 

[russ13]

...RL in Australia made a conscious decision to continue playing throughout the war, whereas the RU ceased competition.

Not so.


Union was still played during WWI - but not for competition points.(Sean Fegan has an article on this),

&

...The Rugby Rebellion - The Divide of League and Union - click here for a preview!
Unable to attract crowds and gate-money, rugby union was forced to embrace amateurism even more tightly than before, this time as a way of survival. While the effects of WW1 on rugby union further exacerbated their position, the 'rugby war' was over at the end of 1910....
From 1910 onwards, rugby league has held place as the premier winter sport of NSW and Queensland, and maintained a strong following in New Zealand.

Edit

Here it is!

Been commenting on this at http://www.twitter.com/RL1908 - some of the posts...

Quote:

RL1908 Sean Fagan @ RL1908
NSWRU WW1 "suspended competition" - that doesn't = stopped playing!Sydney 1st grade played on, but no table & finals i.e. no "competition".

Oh my. Sydney RU in WW1. SMH 30Aug1915 "Eight of the RU clubs closed season on Saturday with a knockout competition at the Sports Ground."

SMH 7Aug1915: "To-days Fixtures. Rugby Union. Univ v Easts; Balmain v Manly; Glebe v Nth Sydney; Mosman v Newtown; St George v Randwick ."

Oh dear. BrisbaneCourier 9Sept1915: "The RU premiership final will be played on Sat at Brisb Cricket Grd when Valleys meet Christian Bros".

WW1 history lesson article gave was the problem. It detracts the RU men who all volunteered 6 months b4 1915 footy season.

Think about it Mr Pottinger. RU went pro 1995. Even if was no RL or WW1, amateur RU would've lost NSW/QLD in 1920s to Aust rules or soccer.

Due to low crowds 1920 the QRU fell into debt. QRL held fundraising matches & gave all $ to QRU who paid off its debts. QRU still disbanded.

Sports played thru WW1? VFL, cricket, RU in NZ, USA baseball, gridiron, Canadian ice hockey, boxing. Soccer & RL in UK til war took toll.

If RL only toppled RU in Aust due to WW1 (Aug 1914), how come Wallabies-AllBlacks Test Sydney July 1914 drew 10K fans, yet in 1907 was 50K?