The Forbidden Game-insightful book on what has & can happen

[madunit]

I think you would have to be pretty naive to think RU hasn't, and still isn't, repressing RL in some parts of the world and in some systems. Just because a school can't ban a sport doesn't mean they can't go out of there way to ensure it is never played. I remember asking my gym master if we could play RL instead of union and hockey, he basically said over my dead body.

No one is suggesting anything against this.

 

[LJC]

A Suggestion is not enough for you to be posting your rants as though they are facts, while attacking those who state clear facts, is it now?

Until you have some actual facts, all you have is your uneducated opinion which is based on no research at all.
that book is entirely about the game's birth in France.

As with the birth of Rugby League in England, Australia and New Zealand, in France, Union was the only code of Rugby and had been long established.

France was different in a major way because the Union players hated that they couldn't play in real international games because of 'shamateurism' which had corrupted the game in France since the 1920's.

Money, or compensation was not the catalyst for Rugby League in France, as it was in England, Australia and New Zealand, because Union players in France were being paid, but the payments were secret so that the players could retain their "amateur" status.

The Forbidden Game is about the contradiction that was the decision of the Vichy Government to delete Rugby League, and how those wrongs were never fully righted, in fact they were covered up by pro Union government officials.

So you believe that what happened in France cannot be replicated in some way elsewhere? For instance South Africa?

 

[madunit]

So you believe that what happened in France cannot be replicated in some way elsewhere? For instance South Africa?

What?!

I did not say that at all.

Can you read?

 

[LJC]

What?!

I did not say that at all.

Can you read?

Instead of going out of your way to insult me just answer the question.
After all it was a question/questions I posited to you.

I firmly believe after reading the "Forbidden game" that RU's friends in places of power have exercised their position to restrict/halt the progress of RL in various places around the world.

I stand by that and the book I have read is an example of what I believe are many examples of repression of the "Greatest Game of All".

And insults aren't my go.

 

[byrner]

I havent read the book but sounds interesting.

Does someone want to start a movement of how this could become a movie?

 

[madunit]

Instead of going out of your way to insult me just answer the question.

Just following your lead.

After all it was a question/questions I posited to you.

If you could read, you could see that I'd already answered your question.

I firmly believe after reading the "Forbidden game" that RU's friends in places of power have exercised their position to restrict/halt the progress of RL in various places around the world.

How? "The Forbidden Game" deals with French RU atrocities, not those elsewhere. It appears you have an ill-informed agenda, and you are using any snippets of information that agree with your perception of an issue, to justify your stance.

Discussing this topic with you is pointless. You are not interested in learning about both sides of the story, only on the small section of the story that you want to hear. I tried to give you some facts about the games origin, and you proceeded to call me an apologist, which is an insult, not to mention ignorant, arrogant and downright stupid.

I stand by that and the book I have read is an example of what I believe are many examples of repression of the "Greatest Game of All".

Of course there are many cases of it in that book. It details how pro-Union government members in Vichy France, who sided with the Nazi's and against anything pro-Britain/Allies, took advantage of Nazism to destroy Rugby League.

To believe what happened in France in this time is indicative of what goes in all around the world for decades after then is absurd. You are linking the immense atrocities by the Vichy Govt and indirectly, the Nazi's, to what, League not being played in private schools?

You argument might be justified if you had provided actual facts to back it up, and if you weren't trying to link it to what happened in Vichy France.

But it's not, and thus it is completely absurd and is evidence as to how uneducated you are and are willing to remain on the issue.

And insults aren't my go.

But trying to discredit someone as an 'apologist for Union' who provided facts to counter your uneducated bullshit assumption is your go.

You read a book. Well done.
You then proceeded to take it out of context to justify your stance against Rugby Union in another issue completely different and almost entirely irrelevant, not to mention, insanely less severe to that in the book.

Perhaps you should read the book again.

 

[madunit]

I havent read the book but sounds interesting.

Does someone want to start a movement of how this could become a movie?

It takes place over such a long period of time and covers so many different issues that a movie would be a bit too complicated.

A documentary though would be fantastic.

It would most likely have to be done outside of France though. My Understanding is that the French aren't too keen on producing anything associated with Vichy.

 

[LJC]

Just following your lead.
If you could read, you could see that I'd already answered your question.

How? "The Forbidden Game" deals with French RU atrocities, not those elsewhere. It appears you have an ill-informed agenda, and you are using any snippets of information that agree with your perception of an issue, to justify your stance.

Discussing this topic with you is pointless. You are not interested in learning about both sides of the story, only on the small section of the story that you want to hear. I tried to give you some facts about the games origin, and you proceeded to call me an apologist, which is an insult, not to mention ignorant, arrogant and downright stupid.

Of course there are many cases of it in that book. It details how pro-Union government members in Vichy France, who sided with the Nazi's and against anything pro-Britain/Allies, took advantage of Nazism to destroy Rugby League.

To believe what happened in France in this time is indicative of what goes in all around the world for decades after then is absurd. You are linking the immense atrocities by the Vichy Govt and indirectly, the Nazi's, to what, League not being played in private schools?

You argument might be justified if you had provided actual facts to back it up, and if you weren't trying to link it to what happened in Vichy France.

But it's not, and thus it is completely absurd and is evidence as to how uneducated you are and are willing to remain on the issue.

But trying to discredit someone as an 'apologist for Union' who provided facts to counter your uneducated bullshit assumption is your go.

You read a book. Well done.
You then proceeded to take it out of context to justify your stance against Rugby Union in another issue completely different and almost entirely irrelevant, not to mention, insanely less severe to that in the book.

Perhaps you should read the book again.

Out of context? It is a very real example of what can happen and has happened elsewhere! End of story.

If you have issues with the fact that this is very relevant to the struggle of rugby league being accepted around the world then that is not my fault.

Their are many examples of RU people limiting and stopping the chance for RL to survive and flourish. If you don't believe this you are blinkered and not thinking about the cause and effect relationship of the many devious tactics employed by the types of RU aligned people we are talking about.

You are entitled to an opinion just as much as I am and I have no qualms about that.

I am very sure that RL has been negatively affected by devious tactics internationally for many years and you do not agree. That's your call and I can live with that but I will not be changing my thoughts and hope that RL people will gain a knowledge of what has happened and what can happen to a sport that is not backed by the "establishment".

A quick question for you: "Why is it that rugby league is not considered to be an Olympic sport and rugby union is?" I would answer that it is not as internationally recognized. This poor international recognition is a result of subversive tactics courtesy of RU people acting in subversive and devious ways around the world to a football code that is simply much more appealing and actually has more "rugby" running with the ball and tackling(about 700 tackles and runs per game in RL as to 150 in RU) than the union version. Their is a distinct presence of this repression of RL and it is do with the fact that these shadowy people(RU biased) are very aware of RL as a threat to RU dominance and ultimately a superior version of rugby.

You say you are a RL supporter ? Surely you will agree that RL is a supremely better form of rugby? Or is that in question as well?

 

[madunit]

So instead of properly reading my posts, you've just decided i hate rugby league even though that is so far removed from the truth it is just absurd.

 

[madunit]

Out of context? It is a very real example of what can happen and has happened elsewhere! End of story.

It is not an example. It is one extreme incident that has had no equal before it or after it. There is no way a Nazi party will exist in the future, let alone will there be an allied country with a makeshift government with pro rugby union members who will side with it purely to delete Rugby League. You are a moron for suggesting something like that will ever happen again.

Will RU try to keep RL quiet? of course it will. Just like any business will try to do to its competitor. AFL and RL do it to each other as well. You're making out like RL has NEVER done anything wrong by any code which is blatantly wrong.

If you have issues with the fact that this is very relevant to the struggle of rugby league being accepted around the world then that is not my fault.

You're just putting words in my mouth now. I have issue with you thinking a Nazi regime will once again rise and another Vichy Government will be created. You cannot use what happened in Vichy France as an example of anything. It's mind numbingly stupid.

Their are many examples of RU people limiting and stopping the chance for RL to survive and flourish. If you don't believe this you are blinkered and not thinking about the cause and effect relationship of the many devious tactics employed by the types of RU aligned people we are talking about.

I have NEVER said anything opposing this view. How you have come to assume this is again, absurd.

You are entitled to an opinion just as much as I am and I have no qualms about that.

You do have qualms about it, because you think my facts are an opinion and your opinion are facts. You're a blithering idiot.

I am very sure that RL has been negatively affected by devious tactics internationally for many years and you do not agree.

I have never said this. How the f**k do you come to the conclusion I am even inferring this?

That's your call and I can live with that but I will not be changing my thoughts and hope that RL people will gain a knowledge of what has happened and what can happen to a sport that is not backed by the "establishment".

It's not my call dickhead. I stated facts to show that Rugby League is not so innocent. You won't accept these facts as they don't agree with your warped mind that Nazi Rugby Union is out to delete the Jew Rugby League.

A quick question for you: "Why is it that rugby league is not considered to be an Olympic sport and rugby union is?"

Because league has always been professional. Nowadays there are requirements needed to be recognised for a game to become an Olympic sport, something along the lines of a minimum number of competing countries have to be able to field a side. Maybe RL is yet to meet this number but RU can.

I would answer that it is not as internationally recognized.

I suggest you do some research and find the real reason before your make a dick of yourself again.

This poor international recognition is a result of subversive tactics courtesy of RU people acting in subversive and devious ways around the world to a football code that is simply much more appealing and actually has more "rugby" running with the ball and tackling(about 700 tackles and runs per game in RL as to 150 in RU) than the union version. Their is a distinct presence of this repression of RL and it is do with the fact that these shadowy people(RU biased) are very aware of RL as a threat to RU dominance and ultimately a superior version of rugby.

That is entirely your opinion. I don't care about any of this. I don't care if RL or RU is or isn't an Olympic Sport. Olympics for mine was always track & field, swimming and that sort of shit.

You say you are a RL supporter ?

I am. More than you.

Surely you will agree that RL is a supremely better form of rugby?

I have already stated this. Evidence that you have not been properly reading my posts.

Or is that in question as well?

The only thing in question is your comprehension skills.

From what you have displayed. you have none.

You have an agenda against RU. Good for you. I don't give a shit about that.

What I do give a shit about is Rugby League and it's history. I research it, I record it, I write about it.

You want to go off on this f**king tangent about conspiracy theories and all this other drivel, I don't give a shit. Conspiracy theorists are f**king morons whop take an agenda and a fact, then build a massive fable around it. Then misconstrue everything they can to fit in with their agenda.

They have no interest in knowing about all of the facts first.

I love Rugby league.

I don't care about Rugby Union. My knowledge on it is minimal. My knowledge on its history derives entirely from it's association with League's birth.

League has done underhanded things to Union. You have to accept that. You don't say "it was justified" and then attack Union for doing them as well. That's simple minded and stupid.

As I said before, League was a movement by players who were unhappy with Rugby Union administration taking the money for themselves while the players got nothing.

Union was pissed at Rugby League because it's players went to it and the Union lost money.

What happened in France during Vichy rule was unique. It was severe and a complete once off and what happened there will not occur again.

That does not mean that Union will not try to beat League where it can, of course it will, its the nature of business. But they won't be aligning themselves with a Nazi party or equivalent to do that.

 

[LJC]

I note that you keep on referring to the French example as an isolated incident. There are numerous examples/incidents(as you label them) This is not a NAZI thing against RL it is another sport using people in powerful positions to the detriment of another. This being rugby union on rugby league.

Rugby league has many enemies but the main one being RU and perhaps their are many people within the game that may come into this area as well.

This is where we differ!

I suggest that RU has been going out of its way to stop the growth of rugby league. You do not agree with this.

You can paraphrase and dissect statements as much as you like but you will never change my thoughts on these underhanded measures of repression that has and will continue to impact on the great game of rugby league.

Until people, in general, realize that this(repression of RL courtesy of RU bias from people making decisions in high places all over the world)exists, rugby league will forever struggle.

We agree to disagree.

 

[Rexxy]

we are talking about this live today on A VFTH


In this episode of A View From The Hill, we take a historical look at the game in France and the rugby union myth building that has been taking place since 1895. We'll also be in the here and now to look at the NRL, NSW Cup and the teams for Origin III. Join Rob and the team from 11:00 AM, Saturday 13 July or tune in later to catch the full show... You can have your say radio@leagueunlimited.com

LISTEN LIVE

 

[madunit]

I note that you keep on referring to the French example as an isolated incident.

A Nazi Sympathising Govt stacked with pro-Union officials, using Nazism as a tool to delete rugby league is an isolated incident you idiot. Tell me, when has that happened another time in history?

There are numerous examples/incidents(as you label them) This is not a NAZI thing against RL it is another sport using people in powerful positions to the detriment of another. This being rugby union on rugby league.

Both codes have done it to each other and to other codes. No code is completely innocent. You are adamant that Rugby league has NEVER done anything wrong to Rugby Union. I cited the incident surrounding the 1909 Wallabies defection. I also mentioned how two RL Administrators who were Labor politicians got RL into catholic schools, which you completely ignored. You then called my a Union Apologist which is excessively childish and narrow minded, not to mention completely avoiding the facts I put to you, which you called an opinion and an argument, again showing how undeucated you are on Rugby League's history.

I have also said that Union has done wrongs to league and will continue to do so. It's business, but it's not a one way street.

Rugby league has many enemies but the main one being RU and perhaps their are many people within the game that may come into this area as well.

This is where we differ!

No. Where we differ is that you think Rugby league is a poor innocent code that has never done a single thing wrong to any other sport, especially Rugby Union. I provided FACTS to counter your argument.

I suggest that RU has been going out of its way to stop the growth of rugby league. You do not agree with this.

No. This is your opinion, based on no evidence other than an extreme case in France that has never and will never be repeated. I have no opinion on this matter because as I've already said, but which you again failed to read, is that I have not spent any great time investigating and reading into that aspect as it is too small an issue and there are much greater and positive aspects of Rugby League's history which I would rather uncover.

You can paraphrase and dissect statements as much as you like but you will never change my thoughts on these underhanded measures of repression that has and will continue to impact on the great game of rugby league.

I will say it again, for the umpteenth time, I have never said such a thing doesn't occur! Learn to read ffs! I have to keep paraphrasing and dissecting statements to try and make it simple enough for it to sink into your ignorant thick head.

Until people, in general, realize that this(repression of RL courtesy of RU bias from people making decisions in high places all over the world)exists, rugby league will forever struggle.

We agree to disagree.

No, you have a bullshit opinion borne from the most extreme case of a wrong by Union against league and decided that is the norm and has been going on for decades.

You have a bullshit opinion that League has never done any wrong against Union, ever. I provided facts that proved you wrong.

You decided to attack my integrity and personally and insult me. Then you got all shitty when I returned the favour.

Here is another fact for you.

You do not know enough about the history between Union and League to justify your strong views on a topic like this.

You have an agenda and you have no intention or interest in learning about incidents that oppose your view, no matter how significant they are/were.

I am not going to tell you all of this again. You are thick.

Your inability to understand English is irritating and I've grown tiresome of explaining the very same post to you over and over again.

 

[Perth Red]

I would disagree with you generally madunit that it is business, I would suggest it more motivated by class ideology.

The facts are that there has been continued and sustained influence by RU to deny RL the opportunity to grow and it is still continuing today in some countries. I don't know anywhere in the world you could say RL is doing the same thing?

 

[madunit]

I would disagree with you generally madunit that it is business, I would suggest it more motivated by class ideology.

That would require some very indepth analysis and investigation that no one has possibly ever done. So instead we're just dealing with assumptions.

The facts are that there has been continued and sustained influence by RU to deny RL the opportunity to grow and it is still continuing today in some countries. I don't know anywhere in the world you could say RL is doing the same thing?

I haven't said this wasn't the case.

All i said, and backed up with evidence, is that Rugby League has used money and political power to push RL, at the expense of RU, as well. The fact I had just two examples is evidence enough to prove that League is not completely innocent in this, which has been my point all along.

I have not said that League does it just as much as Union, or more than Union.

All I did was use facts to prove LJC's 'argument' wrong.

 

[Perth Red]

Again the point of difference though is RL has never, to the best of my knowledge, used its money or influence to directly advocate against RU. It has used it to grow its own business but not to directly target the damaging of RU. That is the difference for me.

 

[magpie4ever]

LJC (OP),

I went to a Catholic school (MCC) and my two boys went to Catholic schools (MCS) and unless I lost my mind (some will say I have) they are private schools.

Fact: there are more private schools in NSW and Qld playing RL then RU.

You seem to be talking about the GPS, CAS and ISA group of schools - they are minimal in number in the overall scheme of things.

Undoubtedly, both codes have commited wrongs to the other.

 

[madunit]

Again the point of difference though is RL has never, to the best of my knowledge, used its money or influence to directly advocate against RU. It has used it to grow its own business but not to directly target the damaging of RU. That is the difference for me.

You don't think using money to Lure 20 of the best Union players in Australia to play League is not using money to influence?

What about RL Administrators who became Labor politicians who lobbied to have RL played in RU exclusive catholic schools?

To say those two incidents are not a case of using money or influence to damage Rugby Union is ludicrous.

I'm not being an apologist for Union either. These incidents actually happened.

 

[Perth Red]

If they lobbied to ban RU in those schools yes
If they told those 20 players, and any other, if you ever play RU again you will be banned for life from RL then yes

There is a big difference between growing your game and deliberately going out to wilfully destroy another.

 

[madunit]

If they lobbied to ban RU in those schools yes
If they told those 20 players, and any other, if you ever play RU again you will be banned for life from RL then yes

There is a big difference between growing your game and deliberately going out to wilfully destroy another.

now you are making up circumstance to justify your argument.

You're being silly now to save yourself from looking foolish, and failed.