The Joint Venture Is Broken

[alien]

Tiger05, your head is so far in the sand its unbelievable! And you call others morons, when you are actually the moron

 

[madunit]

The colours thing, I can understand, but I don't think it's even remotely part of the issue here.

The concern people are having is one that was always going to come to the surface, Campbelltown went from having 12 games a season in 1998-99 to getting around 4-6 a year since 2000.

I understand the anger. All along the Tigers should have pushed for a different compromise (ie - play all home games at campbo but wear black and orange colours only or some such thing)

The half-arsed rushed compromise both clubs made is biting everyone on the arse and the chance of renogtiating a better arrangement has been made harder because both sides feel more passionately about the fact they've been screwed over (in their opinions)

 

[Tiger05]

Tiger05, your head is so far in the sand its unbelievable! And you call others morons, when you are actually the moron

Thanks for the positive feedback. I termed the phrase the magpie morons and personally I think it is the best thing on this whole thread.

Going against my usual approach but is there any reason why you can't be rational with regards to this discussion.

The concern people are having is one that was always going to come to the surface, Campbelltown went from having 12 games a season in 1998-99 to getting around 4-6 a year since 2000.

I don't get this - why not play all the games at Leichardt ? The players seem to prefer it. We seem to do better there and the crowds seem to favour Leichardt.

Personally I think that would be a terrible solution however that argument probably holds a lot more sway than playing all the games at Campbelltown.

I understand the anger. All along the Tigers should have pushed for a different compromise (ie - play all home games at campbo but wear black and orange colours only or some such thing)

This sounds good now but I really can't see how you will ever be able to appease some of the old Wests supporters. They want everything. I compared them to Hitler earlier and it is the truth - they will not stop complaining until they get it all their way.

I think that this is a real shame - we have a club trying really hard to be a true JV and some people simply want to complain until they get it all their way.

The half-arsed rushed compromise both clubs made is biting everyone on the arse and the chance of renogtiating a better arrangement has been made harder because both sides feel more passionately about the fact they've been screwed over (in their opinions)

Both sides need to grow-up. We are now the Wests Tigers. I don't get why we can't get behind the team and simply stop the sooking.

Bug - I expected more from you. You have always been a fair supporter in my opinion of both sides of the JV.

I really feel that this madness has to stop and we have to start supporting the Wests Tigers.

 

[madunit]

I don't get this - why not play all the games at Leichardt ? The players seem to prefer it. We seem to do better there and the crowds seem to favour Leichardt.

Personally I think that would be a terrible solution however that argument probably holds a lot more sway than playing all the games at Campbelltown.

It was an example of a compromise, not a suggestion.

But I'll entertain the idea of an argument with you, so here goes:
Balmain colours, playing at Campbelltown full time. Campbelltown is where the juniors are coming from, its where the better facilities are, if we play enough games there we also stand a strong chance of getting a large govt grant to upgrade the stadium. I'm an old Balmain fan and I love Leichhardt more than any other ground, but it is never going to get an upgrade or any funding to facilitate an upgrade. One day it will be foreclosed and we will be at Campbelltown permanently.

The only way we can progress is to abandon all this petty bitching between Balmain and Wests, make a big compromise and stick with it.

This sounds good now but I really can't see how you will ever be able to appease some of the old Wests supporters. They want everything. I compared them to Hitler earlier and it is the truth - they will not stop complaining until they get it all their way.

I think that this is a real shame - we have a club trying really hard to be a true JV and some people simply want to complain until they get it all their way.

This is where you are wrong and nothing i say, no matter how true will sway your blind opinion. I'm not going to engage in a pointless argument over this rubbish.

Both sides need to grow-up. We are now the Wests Tigers. I don't get why we can't get behind the team and simply stop the sooking.

Yet while we have oxymorons like yourself roaming around, that will never be accomplished.

You want unity and progress but you show complete disregard and contempt for half of the JV. You have clearly shown how unbalanced and closed minded you are.

 

[murraymob]

tiger 05

you seem to brush over the main point even when made by mad unit.The huge problem out there is there will be no juniors in the mac cartur region as they have no teams to play for,This is the big problem not what colour jersey they wear or if there based at camp concord
West tigers have takin controll so must wear the blame.These kids will go to other clubs just so they can have teams to play for.I have seen first hand what is happening out there

 

[Tiger05]

The only way we can progress is to abandon all this petty bitching between Balmain and Wests, make a big compromise and stick with it.

I basically agree with this point of view. I agree that we need to stop the petty bitching. I don't think either side has to make a big compromise.

Why does this massive compromise have to occur and if so why does if have to favour the Wests side.

You want unity and progress but you show complete disregard and contempt for half of the JV. You have clearly shown how unbalanced and closed minded you are.

You have me completely wrong here. Maybe I should argue my point of view a little less forcefully however I want nothing more than for the Wests supporters to be a part of the JV. I really want the JV to be a massive success and for the petty bitching to stop.

The issue though is that it appears to be the Wests side of the JV that keeps complaining.

I would happily play more games at Campbelltown or play all the lower grade Wests Tigers games at Campbelltown or have the first grade team train at Campbelltown if that would get the Wests supporters on board. I think though that these decisions should be the decisions of the Wests Tigers and not the fans. I think that the Wests Tigers should do more to support the local region if that is an issue. I also said earlier on this thread that the Campbelltown region is probably the future of the club. I know I probably do the same but you are completely misrepresenting me to suggest that I am unreasonable on this point.

Still no matter how much I am prepared to compromise I don't think that the Wests supporters are prepared to do this. They expect more games than the Balmain side of the JV. I haven't heard one Balmain supporter complaining about this. I actually haven't heard one Balmain supporter with regards to this whole argument - it appears to be old Wests supporters vs the Wests Tigers.

I want a JV where all supporters are happy with the arrangement. I want our supporters to complain about losing games and coaches and players not performing rather than stupid things like where the team trains.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

well our juniors that live in macarthur who arent on much money probably would go to other clubs that are closer, yet you and some others expect juniors from macarthur to have absolute loyalty to wests tigers? why the hell should they when wests tigers abuse the south west area and the magpies side of the joint venture? why am i deluded saying the club should be based at campbelltown instead of concord? why does it have to be based in the balmain district who have less juniors? you say you would be happy with the wests tigers nsw cup team playing all games at campbelltown, well that isnt going to happen is it. wests always have strong under 18s and under 16s, which is more than i can say about balmain. i bet if the club was based in campbelltown we would keep alot more of wests' good juniors

You are deluded because the club already has their facilities set up at Concord, which might I add is NOT in Balmain. Why would you expect them to pack up and move to Campbelltown when the facilities (very good ones from what I understand) are already available?

Let me ask you something: if tomorrow it was announced that a single State Cup side would be formed, called the Wests Tigers, wearing a Wests Tigers jersey, and playing all games out of Campbelltown would you stop complaining?

My guess is you wouldn't, my guess is you would also want the team to be called the Wests Magpies and have them wear black and white. Wouldn't you?

This isn't even about juniors. It's about wanting to cheer for the Wests Magpies again. f**king move on. If you don't like it forget about following the NRL side, f**k off and follow the Magpies at junior level.

 

[madunit]

I basically agree with this point of view. I agree that we need to stop the petty bitching. I don't think either side has to make a big compromise.

Why does this massive compromise have to occur and if so why does if have to favour the Wests side.

a compromise needs to be made because one side - the side with the better stadium, with the better chance of getting a grant to upgrade it as well, and the side with the huge juniors base, is unhappy. My idea doesn't favour the Wests side. They are passionate about the magpie & the black & white, there would be many magpies supporters who wouldn't accept this deal. Fact is, they have everything the club needs to progress, simple fact. If a compromise is made now, then Balmain still stand a chance of beibg recognised in the JV.

If theres no compromise and in 5 years time leichhardt is closed, sending another 4-5 games to campbelltown, what will balmain be contributing?

You have me completely wrong here. Maybe I should argue my point of view a little less forcefully however I want nothing more than for the Wests supporters to be a part of the JV. I really want the JV to be a massive success and for the petty bitching to stop.

The issue though is that it appears to be the Wests side of the JV that keeps complaining.

I would happily play more games at Campbelltown or play all the lower grade Wests Tigers games at Campbelltown or have the first grade team train at Campbelltown if that would get the Wests supporters on board. I think though that these decisions should be the decisions of the Wests Tigers and not the fans. I think that the Wests Tigers should do more to support the local region if that is an issue. I also said earlier on this thread that the Campbelltown region is probably the future of the club. I know I probably do the same but you are completely misrepresenting me to suggest that I am unreasonable on this point.

Still no matter how much I am prepared to compromise I don't think that the Wests supporters are prepared to do this. They expect more games than the Balmain side of the JV. I haven't heard one Balmain supporter complaining about this. I actually haven't heard one Balmain supporter with regards to this whole argument - it appears to be old Wests supporters vs the Wests Tigers.

I want a JV where all supporters are happy with the arrangement. I want our supporters to complain about losing games and coaches and players not performing rather than stupid things like where the team trains.

Until you can see and appreciate their argument, which is clear for all to see, then you'll continue being an oxymoron.

they have the juniors, they have the better facilities, their are isn't surrounded entirely by other clubs, their area isn't tiny, theres been suggestions that if they get more games at campbelltown they stand a good chance of getting the ground upgraded.

Theres no future improvement coming to leichhardt. The team has to move west to survive, or the jv will die, magpies will come back and balmain will be dead.

 

[madunit]

Apologies for the poor spelling, i'm using my new mobile & its f**king touchscreen bullshit keypad

 

[Tiger05]

a compromise needs to be made because one side - the side with the better stadium, with the better chance of getting a grant to upgrade it as well, and the side with the huge juniors base, is unhappy. My idea doesn't favour the Wests side. They are passionate about the magpie & the black & white, there would be many magpies supporters who wouldn't accept this deal. Fact is, they have everything the club needs to progress, simple fact. If a compromise is made now, then Balmain still stand a chance of beibg recognised in the JV.

If theres no compromise and in 5 years time leichhardt is closed, sending another 4-5 games to campbelltown, what will balmain be contributing?

I think that this is where we differ - I am not talking about Balmain vs Wests. I am supporting the Wests Tigers. If Campbelltown is the future so be it.

they have the juniors, they have the better facilities, their are isn't surrounded entirely by other clubs, their area isn't tiny, theres been suggestions that if they get more games at campbelltown they stand a good chance of getting the ground upgraded.

So eventually we may move to Campbelltown. To be fair we also might not. I think moving away from ANZ was a mistake as well because I think that ANZ is viewed as being more of a part of the West.

Theres no future improvement coming to leichhardt. The team has to move west to survive, or the jv will die, magpies will come back and balmain will be dead.

You see this is what I don't want to see happen. I want to see everyone embrace the JV.

I still feel that all of these complaints are simply about Wests vs Balmain. I also feel that the arguments from the Wests side are only indicative of a very small minority of the Wests supporters.

You are deluded because the club already has their facilities set up at Concord, which might I add is NOT in Balmain. Why would you expect them to pack up and move to Campbelltown when the facilities (very good ones from what I understand) are already available?

This to me is really where everything falls apart. The first grade side trains at Concord because it suits them. The state cup team should train with them and we should really only have one side - the Wests Tigers in the state cup. The counter-argument is that the juniors will have too far to travel but we know that is simply untrue because juniors will have to travel a lot further than that and the opportunity is a huge one for those that get it.

This isn't even about juniors. It's about wanting to cheer for the Wests Magpies again.

I still think that this is the real issue and none of the arguments put forward have convinced me otherwise.

Still from my point of view I am willing to compromise but should the club really move their training facilities to Campbelltown ? Is that a professional approach ? If so do it.

Alternatively would making ANZ our sole home ground stop some of the complaints ?

I think that something needs to happen here however I could be wrong. It could really be such a small minority complaining about this that it really isn't worth the trouble to even recognise them.

 

[alien]

Theres no future improvement coming to leichhardt. The team has to move west to survive, or the jv will die, magpies will come back and balmain will be dead.

AND THAT WOULD BE THE BEST DAY EVER

ok a couple of people on here have said concord is not in the balmain junior district, but alot of people have told me it is (even people from the balmain side of the joint venture). there is a team in the balmain jnr district called concord-burwood united wolves. they are a merged club from "concord united" and "burwood united". is this correct or incorrect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balmain_Tigers#Balmain_Tigers_District_Junior_Rugby_League

either way concord is much closer to balmain than it is to macarthur/southern highlands

 

[alien]

for the record, the only reason i have been going to the wt games lately was because of the players. i dont blame any of the players for what is happening. i love benji, lawrence, heighington, ellis, farah etc to death. i have travelled all around the country watching them play. ive been to every finals game wests tigers have played in. ive been to most wests tigers games since they started in 2000. so dont think im just some bandwagonner fan who has made this choice easily. i dont think you understand how hard this has been for me. if i wasnt passionate and didnt give a shit i wouldnt bother posting and speaking out

 

[alien]

we should sell all of our wests tigers orange shit and give the money to wests magpies football club. anything that isnt sold should be put in a pile infront of camp concord, poured over with petrol and set on fire! invite channel 9 etc

 

[madunit]

Alien, don't be a f**king moron all your life. Show some objectivity ffs

 

[Haffa]

we should sell all of our wests tigers orange shit and give the money to wests magpies football club. anything that isnt sold should be put in a pile infront of camp concord, poured over with petrol and set on fire! invite channel 9 etc

:lol::crazy::lol: what would that do other then make you look like a complete idiot?

 

[Tiger05]

You see the issue really is that supporters like Alien are simply completely unreasonable.

This isn't a personal attack - the simple fact is that Alien and his 50 odd buddies that support this nonsense cannot be appeased. They don't want a JV - they want a one-sided beatdown with the Magpies swinging the hammer.

I think the end result will be that the club decides to alienate these supporters because they realise that their demands are simply unreasonable. I said before that this is definitely not what I want to happen but I can see the club having no choice but to simply make decisions on the basis of what are the best actions for the Wests Tigers.

 

[madunit]

You and alien aren't that different.

 

[gronkathon]

So because Wests Tigers have taken control of the junior administration for this season they have to wear the blame even before they have had a chance to actually run the comp?

A massive problem is the division of CRL and WSDJRL & the NSWRL. The Commission should hopefully see alot of that rubbish stop but I am not all that hopefull of that

 

[madunit]

I agree gronky, i can't see anyone fixing the lower grades/other cimos in a hurry. They are a f**king debacle and its the fault if the NRL. When they came along, they relinquished anything to do with the other comps abd lower grades. Too big a mess to fix now.

 

[sensesmaybenumbed]

we should sell all of our wests tigers orange shit and give the money to wests magpies football club. anything that isnt sold should be put in a pile infront of camp concord, poured over with petrol and set on fire! invite channel 9 etc

For crying out loud!

As on old Balmain fan, I have embraced the joint venture.
Compromise must be made, and yes, the future of the club does lie predominantly in the southwest of Sydney. The Magpie should be moved back to the top of the sleeve

BUT

Many issues regarding juniors and the Group 6 debacle seem to be based on issues that are beyond the Wests Tigers control. I also hope the new Independent Commission will rectify this!

The team has to move west to survive, or the jv will die, magpies will come back and balmain will be dead.

AND THAT WOULD BE THE BEST DAY EVER

Thanks for the honesty. I want life for both clubs - and the truth is that the JV is the only way to sustain this. If that means a Wests Magpies team in State cup and a BRET team in Bundy Cup, so be it. it's the cold hard reality of the modern game and money - it sucks, but capitalism isn't going away so these rationalisations are unfortunately inevitable.

A shame to lose a no doubt passionate fan, but it's necessary for the club to move forward without those trying to destroy it from within.

The future is brighter without this.

I love Wests Tigers.
I love Rugby League.

The dissolution of the Wests Tigers isn't in the best interests of Rugby League - especially with a lucrative new tele rights deal just around the corner.


I'll leave it on this note - half of something is better than nothing.
If you got your way and knifed the Balmain side of the JV to bring the Magpies back, the Magpie would become a mockery of everything it was in the eyes of any football fan with a memory - a Sea Eagles v Bears version 2.0

Have a think about that.

Sea Eagles 2.0

You want that?